Gatsby77

I've said this before, but I wonder if Zaslav really hates the idea of Keaton as Batman. He cancelled Batgirl Rumor is Keaton's cameo in Aquaman 2 was re-shot with Affleck This leaves only The Flash left, which - should they keep it - probably works as a one-and-done anyway, since chronologically the film was supposed to appear first. So, of the trio, it's likely got Keaton's introduction.

As others have noted, she's far from a Mary Sue. The crux of a Mary Sue is infinite plot armor - that she's magically able to have whatever skills required from her in that moment - without training, failure or growth. We clearly see Naru's growth, as a tracker and warrior, throughout the film - replete with hunting failures, practice, trial and error, etc. (And, as noted above, her growth as a hunter mirrors that of the Predator's.) That's the crux of it - she's a totally different character by film's end -- prior to the final battle -- than she was at the beginning. Further, it's reinforced several times in the first hour that she would have been disrespected by her tribe even if she were a male because she was so inexperienced - having not yet completed the rite of passage that would make her worthy of her first hunt. "How awesome and perfect she is at everything" - LOL. Did you just ignore the first 90 minutes of the film?

Worth reading. https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/13/23300237/dceu-ezra-miller-the-flashbatgirl-black-adam-david-zaslav

Counterpoint: The casual sex thing - and comedic sex between superheroes - was really well done in Jessica Jones (Season 1). And it was faithful to the comic, too. IIRC correctly, Alias # 1 caused a stir when it was first released because the opening pages featured her having just had casual sex with Luke Cage. This was the first appearance of the character, and she was immediately tied to an existing Marvel superhero.

Is it possible to do 9.9 pre-screens?

Right? It blows my mind that even in the best case scenario, since this film was announced, we will have seen three Ant-Man films before a single solo Flash film. Like, Marvel could potentially finish its whole Paul Rudd Scott Lang arc and be prepping to reboot the character - and we’d still be waiting for this single film to debut.

This is the point I was getting at - What's a realistic box office for this film? It can't be $800 million+ But is $650 million worldwide a "failure?" Not saying it won't make money. But I have severe doubts it will make "tentpole expectations" money.

Possibly. But if word-of-mouth from those who saw it was good - or even passable - it wouldn't have dropped 69+% in its second weekend. Even Josh Trank's Fantastic Four fell only 68%+ in its second weekend.

? A full-on Batman v. Superman movie - which also introduced Wonder Woman - did less box office than a solo Aquaman movie, and the excuse is it was simply the 2nd film in a burgeoning connected DC universe? My question remains: What's a reasonable expectation for The Flash's worldwide box office? Is it a failure if it only hits $700 million? Do folks think it's gotta' do $800 million? If it does $650 million is Ezra Miller's personal life to blame? Or is that amount a reasonable expectation for a solo Flash film with Michael Keaton as Batman?

? Did BvS hit Aquaman's worldwide box office or did it not?

Nah - I'm specifically talking about box office expectations for The Flash. Because there's a wide gulf between expecting Black Widow numbers and expecting Aquaman numbers - particularly when the last few Batman- or Superman-starring films didn't hit Aquaman numbers. If you're judging *failure* by whether a film is bad, have you ever seen: BvS Suicide Squad Justice League Green Lantern Jonah Hex Catwoman

I'm curious what people believe constitutes The Flash "underperforming?" Man of Steel made $668 million worldwide. Justice League made $657 million. Wonder Woman made $823 million. Suicide Squad made $747 million Batman v. Superman made $874 million The Suicide Squad made $169 million Is The Flash a failure if it *only* hits $700 million worldwide? Is theatrical break-even (given the delays & presumptive re-shoots) $850 million? What's a failure here? Aquaman numbers or bust? Or are Black Widow numbers more appropriate?

Except Miller's neither of those - who were long-established A-list stars before they (respectively) fell off. Ezra Miller is more akin to Lindsay Lohan - but worse -- in that she was a far bigger star - and box office draw, before her fall from grace than they are.

Counterpoint: I thought it was canonical in both the comics and the films that Predators strive for even combat - to meet their prey where they are - thus limiting themselves to roughly equivalent weapons. Example: In Predators, the final showdown with the Yakuza - both he and the Predator use swords Here, when the Predator first meets the natives (who are using bows and arrows) and he uses (basically) crossbow bolts Later, with the French trappers, he only introduces the net after they have tried to ensnare him with a net Similarly, a major reason she has to shoot him with the flintlock is to enable (allow) him to escalate with the laser at the end.

Watched the first two episodes. It's solid and I'm onboard so far, but the critic from Vulture speaks my mind: "Not gonna lie, I’m getting a little impatient with this show already. The Sandman appears to be going at an adaptation rate of one issue per episode, and we do not have time for this. Netflix cancels shows too fast — get to hell already, please." Especially because (as noted earlier in this thread) my favorite issues begin at # 10.

That pretty much hits the nail on the head, I think. Shooter's writing style worked for the '80s - and for the early '90s, but it didn't work in 2010 - comic book storytelling had evolved in the intervening 20 years. Say what you want about decompression in mainstream superhero books, but by 2010 there had been far better storytelling examples in: Incredible Hulk # 34-60 Batman: Hush Astonishing X-Men # 1-20 or so New Avengers # 1-12 The Ultimates # 1-13 Ultimate FF # 1-20 Planetary Fables # 1-50 DMZ 100 Bullets Y: The Last Man It pains me to admit it, but the Dynamite versions of Doctor Solar and Magnus were superior to Shooter's Dark Horse reboots of the same.

A week ago I'd have said the same about Batgirl at $90 million.

Shooter at Valiant? Nah - they tried that (twice!) and people (myself included) hated it. First with Unity 2000 - while I wish they'd finished the series, the prologue was (IIRC) in Shadowman vol 3 # 5 - a back-up story called something like "The Many Deaths of Jack Boniface" - that was written by Jim Shooter, although I believe under a pen name. Again - it's been 20 years, but it basically introduced a multiverse concept to explain how Jack Boniface (who wasn't the current Shadowman at the time) existed in other dimensions -- as a way of being able to bring him back to live for the Unity 2000 series. This was wildly_fanciful_statement. First, it invalidated a key tenet of Shooter's Valiant from as early as Harbinger 6 - with the death of Torque: "Valiant. Where dead is dead." Because we learned early on in the original Shadowman series that Jack Boniface died in 1999. To bring him back purely for Unity 2000 was a cheat. Third, it was written by Jim Shooter himself. And then Shooter briefly revived the Gold Key Valiant heroes again for Dark Horse about 15 years ago. Doctor Solar was merely disappointing. Magnus was horrendous. Turok was an abomination. Shooter's had his time, but - like Lucas with Star Wars - I'd rather see new talent take up the reigns for Valiant.

Remember way back when this thread started and this project was supposed to be a theatrical release written, produced, & directed by Joss Whedon? That was awesome.

So does this mean the proposed Paramount Harbinger film is dead as well? Last I'd checked, CGC 9.8 Harbinger 1 prices were creeping up again based on rumored movie momentum.

That's a great piece!

WBD stock is down nearly 17% this morning in early trading.

Not mentioned here, but the Green Lantern Corps show would also be dead, yes? If he's willing to kill an expensive direct-to-streaming Batgirl film, logically there's zero chance he "wastes" Green Lantern (any of them) on the small screen.

Not for nothing, but Warner Bros. Discovery stock is up nearly 14% over the last 5 days. The S&P 500 is up just 1.20% over the same time period.