MatterEaterLad

Would you say that CGC is 99.99% accurate? Do they miss 1 restored book out of every 1,000? I am not talking about the grade but the color of the label.

Well, based on the highly scientific sampling study known as "Spider Dan's Book"...I'd say they're 50% accurate.

And on that, I'll be starting Bleuhawaii's Coin-Flip Resto Check...

I agree with Dan in thinking that the book probably isn't trimmed. It came back blue twice, purple once, and now declared purple sight unseen. Sounds like a total cover your move by CGC, which is disappointing.

The label changed color; the number on the label did a little two step; the page quality is schizophrenic.

 

No consistency in grade, page quality, or the results of the resto check. Mistakes happen, the graders are human, yadda, yadda, yadda; I get it. The problem is, when you consider these inconsistencies in the context of a market that values one grade increment over another to such a degree that the time, expense and risk involved in resubmitting books is more often than not worthwhile, and thus profitable, it becomes clear that this entire segment of the hobby has jumped the shark.

 

You are taking isolated incidents and extrapolating them like it's common place. It isn't.

How do you know it's not more common? How does anyone?

All of which is moot if none of those people look at the books.

 

There's a reason the wording was changed. It used to be "grader"...now it is "comic professional."

 

I'm not suggesting, in any way, that the actual graders are not the ones doing the grading. It is my belief that that's exactly what happens. But their warranty expressly states that this isn't necessarily the case. So, in that sense, FT is quite right.

 

If "comic professional A" and "comic professional B", neither of whom appear on that page, made the decision as to the grade of a book...that page has no meaning. And the warranty is expressly written to say that could very well be the case.

 

It was probably changed because it sounded better than pregrader.

 

Which sounds better than comic fluffer.

Greetings all,

 

So in going over this JIM #83, we made a mistake on this one.

 

The book IS trimmed (on the top edge of the cover), as we went over it thoroughly in February. So how did it come through just last week and go out the door as a blue label? Well, first off, it was certainly *not* any kind of under-the-table deal with anybody. As it has been often stated, the graders do not know who the submitter is and grades every book as if it is the first time they have seen it. This also has nothing to do with which graders saw the book. Quite simply, when it comes to checking for restoration, some books are *obviously* restored (or trimmed) and some are obviously not. There are a few books, though, where the restoration can be extremely subtle and require extra scrutiny. If nothing sends up a "red flag" for the particular graders on a book, it can, unfortunately (but rarely), get by us.

 

Like others have said in this thread, and we have stated ourselves, we are not perfect. But the team of graders we have here are, bar none, the best in the business. In grading nearly 3 million books, we have admittedly made errors. But when an error is brought to our attention we fix whatever the problem is. We strive to "make it right" for the owner so that everyone comes away satisfied.

 

Right now we are in the process of purchasing the JIM #83 from the new owner in order to remove it from the market.

 

We obviously take great pride in the confidence that people have in CGC, we appreciate their trust, and are always trying to improve our company in every way, from restoration detection, to turnaround times, to our holder, and more.

 

Thank you all for taking the time to read this.

 

Right thing to do. Thanks for the update.

 

+1 I agree. CGC is doing the right thing. I am perfectly satisfied with this answer. However, regarding the current owner/submitter of this book, what the heck were you thinking ? I can't understand why you would resub this book in the first place and, miracle of miracles, you get a Blue Label and immediately tell Dan about it. What did you expect ? Also, it seems awfully cowardly to do your talking through Dan and not come on here to discuss. It sure makes it appear as if you are hiding something.

 

No no didn't you read Dan's transmission of his statement, this book was meant for his permanent collection to never ever leave again. That's why he immediately paid a couple hundred bucks for a walk-through submission as soon as he bought the book. Uh huh

 

I knew I should have saved my 20,000 th post for a better moment. I have to agree here that resubbing immediately makes no sense whatsoever.....

 

You are right, it makes no sense in the context of "this is for my personal permanent collection".

I have books that I've resubbed for my personal permanent collection. Removed the color touch, resub, purple becomes blue. I'm happy. Looks better in my registry, etc.

Bottom line:

CGC sucks at detecting trimming.

Still haven't heard what's being done about that. It feels like the bias is, if they can't tell if it's been trimmed or not, they're going to say TRIMMED just to be safe.

Am I missing something?

And the book quote=Bleuhawaii]

The buyer is a boardie. Why is he not on here speaking for himself? What was and was not said between him and CGC would be a lot more credible coming from him then it is coming secondhand from Dan.

 

Why not speak up? What's he got to lose? Or is there something we're not supposed to know...

 

 

Whether or not there was any intent to play the system, the buyer and the book (as it sits now) I would think will be forever be labeled. Just like the bathroom book from Seinfeld.

Why? He didn't do anything wrong, right?

The buyer is a boardie. Why is he not on here speaking for himself? What was and was not said between him and CGC would be a lot more credible coming from him then it is coming secondhand from Dan.

Why not speak up? What's he got to lose? Or is there something we're not supposed to know...

Buyer said it was OK to share

 

- As of 9am this morning CGC wanted the book to look it over again and make a determination. Offered buyer $3500 to buy the book outright.

 

- Buyer does not respond to CGC as he wants to keep the book for his collection (his intentions the entire time)

 

- CGC makes a statement around 5pm stating they are in the process of buying the book back, and it is DEFINATELY trimmed

 

What to believe?? Maybe I'm the one being April Fooled

WTF?

This book went from Blue to Purple to Blue...and NOW it's most definitely Purple without even looking at it?!

That's

Really hoping we get an update from the OP on this today...

EVERY book with good edges 'might be trimmed'. Every one. IMO trimming has too much stigma. If it's very very minor and basically undetectable it should be like pressing.

 

Stop.

I just wanted a trim...

I have a serious question for everyone.

 

Suppose a legitimate competitor pops up tomorrow. Someone the hobby believes in with real backing.

 

Will those here pay more for books in those holders? No.

 

Will you frequent the sites that carry them primarily? Maybe

 

Will you immediately send your books in for grading at the new service? No

 

What if your books will sell for less in a new company's holder? No

 

What if the transparency were no greater at the new company? No

 

Would people be willing to sell their books for less short term to help support the credibility of the new company? No

 

Curious to hear people's responses

My No's are because I'm gunshy of slabbing at the moment, no matter who's looking at the books.

Yes it does. Basically, you can time the actual day of grading by using the Walkthru = they grade it the day it's received, or the next day. In this case it is suspicious the submitter gamed the system by submitting it on a day the whole crew was out of town. Very relevant.

This book needs to be sent back to CGC for inspection. Otherwise, how can CGC respond to any of this. I've talked to some people, outside of the Boards, and the one common response is why did the submitter flaunt this?

I'm still in the camp that CGC got played.

New note on label: graded on day when most graders were out of town....

The label would be pink. Like a "While You Were Out" note.

I imagine it takes them longer than one minute. Even on a book with no flaws.

 

By the time you remove the book from the bag, and flip through the pages (gently, I'm assuming) to make sure they're all there and not torn/ripped/pieces missing/drawn on/indented/etc...you've probably hit the minute mark already.

 

You still have to look at the cover, make notes, assess the damage, assign a grade, return it to the bag, etc...

 

It definitely takes longer than a minute.

 

I'd be surprised if they even opened modern books during the grading process.

 

There should be a contest for who can get the weirdest thing slabbed inside a modern! Centerfold? Brian Bosworth rookie card? Tongue depressor?

Hey all,

 

As was mentioned previously in the thread, the matter is being investigated even as we speak.

 

As far as announcing anything here on the boards currently, the only two people authorized to do that are Paul or Harshen. Paul is currently flying back from Seattle and Harshen had scheduled the day off to to attend to his fathers surgery today.

 

Rest assured, once we have a better idea as to the facts involved, we'll make a statement here on the boards.

Isnt the restoe check the gold standard that's supposed to distinguish CGC from PGX ...?

 

Bingo.

And no...let's not advocate burning the book. Screw ups and books with history are part of the collecting world. If they want to retire it that's one thing, but CGC destroying a book they screwed up on would be bad press on top of bad press.

For the record, I was going to walk through a bunch of CPR daredevils for my own collection. (I mentioned this on the Journal section a while back). But I'm not now. If it's a "don't hate the player, hate the game" kind of thing...I'm tired of playing.

But CGC is giving out numbered grades and colored labels...in effect, definitive grades. And when something like this happens the answer will be "meh, we're only human." The two don't go together. It's one or the other.

 

Ok....if you've identified a problem, propose a solution??

 

You can't have a quantitative number on a qualitative grade. If you do, the whole thing is a farce. (And this is from someone who has 900 slabs in my personal collection. I LIKE grading. But I want transparency).

 

And apparently you can as the marketplace has accepted this since 1998 or whenever CGC was founded.

 

I like grading too and it does add an unbiased element to the business/hobby; but I also realize there are inherent flaws within the same business/hobby.

I'd propose that CGC disclose what their grading standards are. Or, as many suspect, there aren't any. It's all reliant on the 30+ year expertise of "Bob", etc. And that's fine too, but at least be clear about that.

Is it, "one spine tick = 9.8 becomes 9.4" ... that kind of thing...or is it a merely qualitative judgement?

I've always equated CGC graders to NBA refs. There are rules, but different refs call fouls lightly or aggressively. With NBA teams, they know the refs. With CGC, we never know.

Is this instance an outlier, or does it happen more than we realize? I'd say everyone's personal satisfaction with CGC is either validated or rattled by this. For me, I've had wonky things happen with purple books, so this confirms what I've always believed, that CGCs grading is more fluid than we realize. And that few speak out because they think they're the isolated exception, while dealers accept the variance, even using it to their advantage when they can (and I don't blame them).

Seeing as how all you boardies have convicted CGC, you should gather your torches and pitchforks and head down to Sarasota.

 

This whole board/lemmings mentality is beyond dumb...I laugh at 95% of the posts in this thread....

 

 

As someone who only sells CGC'd books on his website I'd say you're hardly unbiased.

 

Staus quo much?

 

 

Not the status quo...just a realistic approach to an unrealistic expectation.

 

The fact that people here expect perfection from an imperfect product is laughable.

 

The only thing I agree w/in this entire thread is that CGC has a responsibility to handle the situation correctly...and that's on them and only them. Its not the responsibility of this community to determine what they should or shouldn't do..and casting stones before all the information is available is not only ignorant, but shows true colors by many.

 

Take it for what you want...if a mistake was made, is it the end of the world? No...my power still comes on, my fridge still keeps my food cold and I still have a roof over my head..

 

Its shameful all these first world problems us comic collectors and dealer's have...

But CGC is giving out numbered grades and colored labels...in effect, definitive grades. And when something like this happens the answer will be "meh, we're only human." The two don't go together. It's one or the other.

You can't have a quantitative number on a qualitative grade. If you do, the whole thing is a farce. (And this is from someone who has 900 slabs in my personal collection. I LIKE grading. But I want transparency).

Seeing as how all you boardies have convicted CGC, you should gather your torches and pitchforks and head down to Sarasota.

 

This whole board/lemmings mentality is beyond dumb...I laugh at 95% of the posts in this thread....

 

As someone who only sells CGC'd books on his website I'd say you're hardly unbiased.

Staus quo much?

 

They fed him a BS story, and told him to take a hike.

 

Its the hubris and arrogance of making him eat the purple rather than admitting they got it wrong. That's the most likely scenario, and the problem with their complete lack of accountability, public standards, etc etc.

 

 

100% this.

 

 

 

 

My guess this will not be resolved till the book is sold then sent in again

That may take a long long time

CGC will just explain that they are human and grading is subjective

The train has left the station for CGC !

But they aren't putting a subjective grade on the slab. They're putting a quantitative number on the label.

If they're going to say "grading is subjective" then the label should say 7.5ish.

The train has left the station and collided with the PGX train leaving a heaping pile of steaming wreckage.

This happens more often than you think.

+1

I'll say it again, since so many people are crying conspiracy by the resubber.

 

1.) you pay thousands for a purple book, you are going to find out its history

 

2.) Upon hearing what happen, if not already aware before purchasing, MANY people would take a chance and resub. Especially given it had ALREADY been graded BLUE prior to purple

-nothing weird about it all

 

3.) When it came back, of course he is going to contact the seller. Again, perfectly normal.

 

 

 

As if people are trying to out the buyer or accuse him of something. CGC is the one that wronged Dan, likely lied to his face, AND failed to meet there own supposed standards in grading.

 

Sort of. Yes you know the history. You get a book that has been a blue and now is a purple, who would resub it? I wouldn't, you wouldn't. Nobody who buys big books like this would resub so quickly. It wouldn't happen. And contact the seller again? Why? It's just going to cause problems like this. Especially because the resubber was doing this for monetary gain, not curiosity. You don't sub big books for curiosity. So your 1,2, and 3 are not normal. Not saying it's the op but or the seller, but the op needs to address these concerns so we can have a better picture.

I would have resubbed it. I might even have flown down and walked a bunch through. I've bought purple books, had the color touch removed, and resubbed for blue (even when it's been a bit of a coin toss).

What really confuses me are the grade dates. Only several weeks apart. This book and all the hoopla had to be fresh in their memories. You'd have to be completely incompetent for not a single CGC employee to go, "Hey isn't this the comic we just had all the....."

 

Especially when "everyone in the building with grading credibility looked at the book, and EVERYONE agreed it was trimmed."

 

Riiiiiiiiight.

 

 

You didn't read the first post, did you?

I read every post. I was agreeing with the above poster.