Tony S

What is it you are seeing on the top edge? Just looks like a old comic with a bit of cover overhang, pushed down some by the inner holder of the slab. Everyone "signs a waiver" with every submission to CCS. It's in the fine print. Terms and Conditions.... 4. CCS does not provide grade protection or any type of guarantee for Collectibles submitted to CCS. Due to the fragile nature of Collectibles, Customer acknowledges that techniques used by CCS for pressing, restoration, restoration, removal and conservation Services may result in new defects or damage to the Collectible, including but not limited to spine splits, popped staples, paper pieces chipping off, creases, and stains. The submitter acknowledges that the services provided by CCS with respect to a submitted Collectible may result in a lower grade, the same grade, or no grade subsequently being assigned to such Collectible by a Collectible grading company. By submitting a Collectible to CCS, the submitter waives any right to assert any form of legal claim against CCS (and any affiliates, divisions, subsidiaries or other corporately related entities of CCS, and its and their respective officers, directors, employees, agents and assigns) with respect to a lower grade, the same grade, or no grade subsequently being assigned to such Collectible by a Collectible grading company, unless caused solely by the gross negligence or willful misconduct of CCS. As for the OP's original question, I don't see anything that screams "bad pressing", though it does look like the back cover could have been cleaned better.

Assuming you are referring to comic books that were polybagged at the printers. It doesn't matter to CGC. They will remove the comic(s) sent in from any pollybag for grading. I personally would remove books from such bags because just to get a good look at the book before it goes to be graded. Just because it was polybagged at the printer doesn't mean it's in perfect condition. Sometimes the factory pollybags actually causes damage. Ultimate Fallout 4 comes to mind - the polybagg was seamed right down the middle of the back cover. So a stack of these books will have indents front and back cover. So you might as well take a good look yourself so no surprises.

Hard to know for sure. I've seen some plastic bags impart a sort of oil like sheen on books. The old polyethylene bags could.

Congrats!

No, CGC is not doing on-site grading at London Comic Con. You can see the shows that CGC is attending and which ones offer on-site grading at the link below The next on-site grading is at Baltimore Oct 18-20. https://www.cgccomics.com/events/ CGC has a London office. You can drop off books at NGC International UK Ltd. (NGC UK). Link to that information below https://www.cgccomics.com/news/article/6822/london-office-opens/

It's essentially the same as submitting comic books for grading. Login your account. Got to the link to submit books. But instead of clicking on "grading" , scroll down and click on "restoration" removal. Then fill out all the screens and when done, print out a copy of the finished submission form. Put the form in the box with the book(s) and ship it to CGC

Color scrapes are one of several defects that collectors in the raw world tend to grade more harshly than CGC does. IMHO, one of the reasons TO GRADE the copy above is that the CGC grade will be higher than a lot of collectors would accept if raw. Financially, what you say is true. One could sell a raw VG copy on eBay for $150. Maybe more. Looking at completed raw sales on eBay Batman 251 appears to be oftentimes selling for more raw than an equivalent already graded copy would cost. So sure, the owner could sell this one and then look for an already graded copy. That might be the financially smart choice. But your original statement of "it's not really worth that much money" isn't accurate, unless you are lucky enough to be in income bracket where $200 is like loose change in your pocket. . For a lot of collectors, a book that is worth $200 is is a grail, a key in their collection.

IDK. Is $10 a lot of money to your friend? Would $10 help out for the show?

I guess it depends on what you call "that much money" Batman 251 is an extremely in demand book. The last GPA recorded sale of a CGC 4.0 was $200. Pictures are only of the front cover, but I believe the book would grade a bit better than 4.0. My own personal standard has a $200 book worth grading.

Not unpopular with me. Grader notes are both vastly over estimated in importance and in accuracy. Grader notes are nothing except what the graders took the time to write down. They are not an exhaustive list of every single defect on a book. Graders notes on NM and better books I believe can be a double edged sword, sometimes depressing the value of the book. You take a 9.4-9.6 where the graders list several tiny defects. But people see that and then they see another 9.4-9.6 of the same book with no graders notes (and thus no defects listed) . And assume that the one listing defects is sub par. it is also worth noting it takes time to list grader notes. Maybe we'd be better off with graders grading books, not writing about the books. Everyone thinks TAT is important. I personally am only interested in grading notes that describe defects that are extremely hard or impossible to see once the book is encapsulated.

You are not wrong. I wasn't clear enough in my post. You can open a PP dispute for up to 180 days. Regardless of the funding source of the PP payment. What I meant was that if the OP paid the seller directly by credit/debit card, that he would have to look into the card issuer's return period and policies.

If an unwitnessed signature is on the outside of the cover - green label. If the unwitnessed signature is inside the book, blue label.

If you purchased the book on eBay and it has been 30 days or less, just start a return for "item not as described". You can do the same with PayPal for up to 180 days. If you paid with a credit card you'll have to check with the card issuer for their return period. If you paid for this purchase via PP, you really don't need to argue with the seller. Just open a "return" dispute and say the book was advertised as unrestored and it came back from the grading company as restored. You will of course have to return the book to get a refund - and you will not be reimbursed your grading (CGC) costs. Just what you paid for the book.

Except for a few underground comics, i'm unaware of any "print variants" that were hand trimmed at the printers. The book you have pictured above probably had over a quarter of a million copies printed at World Color Press in Sparta, Illinois . No one was taking the time at the factory to hand trim a book to make it look right. The printer nor the publisher much cared if the book "looked great". if it had enough staples to keep it from falling apart and all the pages were there, it was good enough to ship out and sell for 12 cents. Having said that, the actual final size of vintage newsprint comics can vary a fair amount in a print run. But they were machine folded and cut, not done by hand. Because the physical size, alignment and cut of old comics can vary - even on the same issue/print run, I find it really hard to detect trimming. But the issue pictured looks like a kid took a pair of scissors to the cover. As you note, the seller says he worked at a recycling center in the 70's. This book was printed early 1963. So it did not arrive at the recycling center in 1963 because World Color Press thought it was too low quality to sell. It arrived at the recycling center years later when someone decided to get rid of "all those old comic books" in the closet or drawer. And some kid decided to test his new school scissors on the book back in the day. So yes... Purple label from CGC

There really isn't a good solution to this. Along with higher value tiers is usually (but not always) faster service (Turn Around Time) In your example, if CGC delivers the Express tier service (5 business days), they certainly are entitled to the express tier price. Regardless of what the book turns out to be worth based on grade. SOME people use the faster tiers on relatively inexpensive books just because they do not wish to wait. CGC could (as Voldy is much more inclined to do) charge more if the book's grade makes it worth more than the value limit the tier it was submitted under. But that wouldn't exactly make most people happy either. With the book you use as an example, it is really and truly is under the value limit at 9.4. We really want CGC digging into our pockets every time we get a 9.8? Perhaps the only (partial) solution really worth considering is raising the value limit of the tiers across the board. Or at least for the less expensive tiers. We've had these FMV limits from the beginning. Most collectible comic books have only gotten more expensive in the almost two decades since CGC opened. But even with this idea the devil is in the details. CGC is a business looking to make money. If they doubled the FMV limits of the least expensive grading tiers, they might have to - in order to make the same amount of $$ - increase the grading fees.

Well - as I mentioned earlier the maximum compensation if the books have been lost by CGC from CGC is going to be the lower of declared value or Fair Market Value. With FMV determined by CGC. Would it be more acceptable to you if CGC just cut you a check in that amount instead of a credit to your account? If so - then politely state you want their offer in cash, not credit. If the issue is the AMOUNT, then there is no reason to waste your time and emotional energy being pissed. Because the absolute, top dollar settlement you can possibly get from CGC is what you declared the FMV of the books to be. I submit a lot of books to CGC so a credit to my account is in fact as good as a check. I'll end up spending the $$ next week. If you don't submit often - or you never intend to submit again - I certainly understand. Just ask for a check and see what they say. But if the amount CGC offered upsets you, then your unfortunate situation represents the risk of sending in books at a declared FMV that is less than what they are likely worth. This is NOT a criticism directed towards you by me. We all do it. I would maintain CGC even encourages it. When CGC announced that the modern tier was rolled back to 1975 (thank you Voldy) that announcement was accompanied by a picture of GS X-Men 1 CGC 9.6. Last i checked, GSX 1 in 9.6 is worth many multiples of $200. If your send GSX 1, or your NM 98, or you NYX 3 or Ms Marvel 1 in as a modern with a FMV of $200, CGC probably grades it and sends it back. They don't ask for more $$ in grading fees. But those books are only insured for what you declared ($200 or less if sent in as a modern tier submission) If anything happens to the book or the package somewhere along the way, that's the amount declared and the maximum compensation coming. From CGC or USPS. And if your books were in fact worth a lot more than declared FMV, neither does CGC have any reason or incentive to go secure replacement copies. Check or credit is both fair and costs them less.

Those of us with private shipping insurance would rarely use parcel or media mail, because their is little to no coverage from our private policies. However - USPS will sell insurance and signature services for parcel and media mail. If one adds USPS services of insurance and signature then the only real downside to slower, less expensive classes of mail is that it takes longer for the package to be delivered. A general rule of shipping is that the less time a package spends in the hands of the carrier, the less likely any damage. But one can mitigate the risk of damage by packaging securely. CGC received this package. Most likely it will eventually be found. Human beings make mistakes, the package or the books are I believe almost certainly sitting somewhere that they aren't supposed to be sitting and no one has noticed them yet. But if they don't turn up CGC has policies for things like this happening. Compensation or replacement.

Well I resisted a long'ish post to the OP's question because I figured the books would show up soon. That hasn't happened (yet) and it's been longer than it should. The OP's question was has anyone else experienced this and the implicit question is how is it handled if CGC loses books. I've not had CGC lose books and don't know anyone that has. I have seen a situation very similar to this happen with a Voldy submission by a very good friend, so I know the details. It was a submission of about $2500 worth of books (a couple of lower grade keys) The books were sent Priority Mail. But no insurance and no signature required. Just USPS's free tracking. Voldy and my friend and USPS went round and round for a month. Meetings with the local postmaster, exhaustive search (by Voldy staff anyway) And this was when Voldy was in Florida. The BOTTOM LINE is that my friend was out the books and $$. They were never found. USPS insisted their tracking showed the packaged delivered. Said package was NOT insured and did NOT require a signature. They were done. Voldy insisted they never got the package. They were done. Voldy stopped using a PO Box and now only lists a street address. NOW - let us talk about "why" and the particulars that could apply here: Tracking is ONLY tracking. It's not insurance and it doesn't require a signature which would provide actual PROOF that the package was delivered to someone at the business. There is a reason that third party private shipping insurance requires a signature and requires a carrier service that is deemed as fairly reliable. With tracking, all that takes place is the postal employee marks the package as delivered. In this case - with CGC - it means ONLY that the package has been placed with the other couple of hundred packages that are going to be delivered later that day or next. If the package doesn't require a signature, this is the end of the tracking trail. What's important to take away is that while the package shows as delivered - it has not been. There is a period of time that the package SHOWS delivered but is actually still sitting on a skid or in a truck at USPS - WAITING to be delivered to CGC. If the package requires a signature, tracking at this point will show something along the lines of "available for pickup" or "delivery attempted, no authorized agent available" I do not see where the OP has indicated if the package required a signature and/or was insured. If I have missed that, apologies. But I'm going to hazard a guess that someone that used Media Mail might not have paid the extra $$ for a signature and some insurance. Hopefully I'm wrong, because I'm getting to the likely outcomes here. If a package is insured for $600 or more (at least this is my experience and ship all the time) with USPS a signature is automatically required. With less or no insurance a signature can be required for an extra fee. Someone has to sign for the package and that signature can be requested. Just go online with the tracking number and ask for it. Usually shows up as an email in a day. If the OP has proof - like a signature - that a CGC employee signed for the books then ultimately he will get compensated. That compensation is the lesser of the FMV of the books (as determined by CGC) or the declared value of the books. Sometimes CGC will also secure replacement copies of the book(s) If the OP paid for insurance and signature and USPS cannot prove they delivered the package (again - a signature) then the OP files a claim with USPS. I've heard people say such claims were easy and I've heard complaints is was long and drawn out. Obviously with an insurance claim with the carrier you are not ever getting more than what you insured the contents for. And you likely will be asked to prove the books were worth as much as you say. So... a wall of text, I thought it needed an explanation. If the package was insured and required a signature the OP should and will most likely be compensated. By CGC or USPS, based on what I've described above. If the media mail package only had tracking added (I think this costs like 25 cents?) then the OP needs to pray his books are found. Because if they are not then they are gone and no compensation is likely. I will close by saying that if you give it any thought - think like a thief - uninsured packages with no insurance to a business like CGC have to be tempting. Could be something really nice in that box. Once it's marked "delivered" in the system it is pretty much untraceable. Maybe it's the employee with the scanner marking it "delivered". Maybe it's someone else that waits until no one is around and grabs a box or two. I'd like to think not, but maybe it's someone at receiving end (CGC) And maybe it just literally fell off the truck along the way. But the point is you only have proof of delivery when you pay for a signature and you only get compensation for lost and damaged packages when you pay for insurance for the contents of the package.

I understand what you are saying. Why not / whether or not CGC should publish their grading standards is a conversation that comes up here on these boards from time to time But here is the bottom line. When Overstreet Price and Grading Guides were the bibles of the industry, grading was still subjective. It's not possible to get everyone "on the same page". Even with printed words and pictures. There is always subjectivity. Back in the early 90's, I was in a room full of Overstreet Advisors in a grading excercise. A stack of books was passed around, each of us graded the books and turned in our grades. I'll never forget Gary Carters words after he tallied the grades: "Some of you I want to buy books from. Some of you I want to sell books to" The purpose of professional grading and encapsulation in this hobby and others is not having everyone on the same page as to how books are graded. It's to have a final authority that the vast majority of people will accept AND an encapsulation that preserves that assigned grade. In the raw world, you buy a book and it's NM. You go to sell a few years later - maybe to the same dealer or person you bought it from - and now it's a VF minus. The lack of an accepted authority for grade and secure, tamper evident storage holders that maintained that grade was holding the hobby back. There was NEVER going to be million dollar books as long as the condition could be lawyered to death. So there is still - even with professional grading and encapsulation - subjectivity to grading. It's just that it's best for the hobby to have an entity or two where their subjective opinion on grade is widely accepted. And I've not even touched on restoration - which most collectors cannot spot but trained experts can.

Well, that's Overstreet says. Overstreet also says that if you use vintage staples you can replace staples in a comic book up to NM. And has the grades of 0.3 and 0.1. All guidelines CGC does not follow. CGC doesn't automatically drop comic books down to 4.0 for writing on the cover. They don't automatically drop the grade down to VG for a 1" Spine Split either. Again, more like FN. I've owned a number of CGC graded copies that were above fine with a name on the cover or a large store stamp. The only one I can quickly find a picture of is below. If the book is a key issue and has writing or a large store stamp or a small spine spit I nearly always get them graded. Because sold raw many a collector reads the OPG guidelines and does not believe the book can be graded much above VG. So those are ideal to send in to CGC for grading as the CGC reputation and label establishes the grade for most.

The answer is the same for both sets of questions. Send the books in and pay for a pressing prescreen. If CCS (the in house pressing service of CGC) believes any of the books could improve then pay for pressing and regrading. If they say "no" then ask that the book(s) be reholdered instead. This will take longer and cost more money, but it gives you an expert opinion (which can only be done in hand, pictures are not good enough) and the best chance of a grade improvement (if possible.) Suggestion. It's hard enough to get decent pictures of a comic book in a slab, as there are two layers of plastic - one quite thick - that the picture is being taken through. So don't make matters worse by leaving a third layer of plastic (the outer bag) on the slab when taking pictures.

There are a number of variables possibly at work that affect "how long". The fastest, most expensive tier is for books sent in valued above $3000. The turn around time on that tier is one day. For books over $1000 but $3000 or less, the turn around time is five business days. Now you know exactly how long it normally takes for CGC to grade, encapsulate and ship the two highest priced tiers. As for the shop you had send it in and their "we get no status updates". That isn't exactly true. It is true that CGC does not email submitters (dealers, those with Collector Society accounts) status updates. BUT---those that can submit can log into their CGC accounts and see the current status of all their submissions that have been received by CGC and entered into the CGC workflow management/tracking system. HOWEVER....there is a lot more than CGC's turnaround time that affects how long it takes. 1) How quickly did the store send your book to CGC? Did they send the next day? A week later? More? 2) Shipping to CGC: If your book was sent Registered Mail, it can easily take a full week, sometimes longer, for the package to get delivered to CGC. Depending on the declared value of the book, your LCS may have decided to use registered mail for insurance reasons. 3) How long did it take CGC - after receiving the package - to open it and enter the book into tracking system? THIS MOMENT counts as the day CGC's clock starts as far as their Turn Around Time. There is typically a delay of 2-4 days from the time CGC receives a package to the time the package has been opened, inspected and logged in. Again, ONLY AFTER the book(s) have been logged in does CGC's "clock" start. 4) Then return shipping back to you. The default return shipping method by CGC is the aforementioned Registered Mail. It will likely take a week - maybe longer - for the book to arrive after CGC has shipped it. So if you dropped your book of at your Local Comic Book Store two weeks ago, it's entirely possible CGC has yet to receive it. Or has received the package but not yet opened it and logged it in, But your LCS can tell you something. Ask them directly when they mailed it and what tracking says as to the package's location. IF the package has been delivered to CGC, ask them to log into their CGC dealer portal and see what the status of the book is. If the package has been delivered to CGC but the book is not showing on their portal, then it's still in the box waiting for CGC's receiving status to open it. If the book is in CGC's tracking system, the dealer will see the current status.

People can ask whatever they want. And eBay is where everybody asks very optimistic prices. The book actually sells for less than $1000 in 9.8. Raw copies that look NM sell for 1/2 or less of that. Like any other hot key issue, the trick in buying them is wait until what you want turns up in an unreserved, low starting bid auction. That way you pay the market price, not some dreamer's imaginary one.

Expedited grading services with Voldy (anything two weeks or less) is mostly a waste of $$ if you have signatures verified. In my experience that service alone adds a 2-3 weeks to the grading tier selected. So with VSP, you might as well do no more than add Fast Pass on the least expensive tier and plan on a several months wait. Combining shipments has always been a good idea --- where the devil is in the details. It's intent is to save those submitting money on shipping costs CGC states they do not combine shipping of different tiers - but it's poorly kept secret that CGC does in fact combine shipments for SOME people. So CBCS was offering combined shipping as an option to everyone. Not just a lucky few. . BUT from day one there have been complaints that people didn't realize or didn't even mark their submissions for combined shipping and have paid for expedited services only to wait months on all their books because a couple of books were in a much slower tier.

At the "FINE" grade level, a name written on the cover is not going to have much effect on the grade. If the book was otherwise NM, it would impact the grade significantly. But at Fine, not really much at all. Welcome to the boards