Tony S

The thing about Iron Man that always distracts me a little bit while reading the stories or watching the movies is trying to come up with a plausible explanation for his flight capabilities. The ability to fly is science with just about every superhero that flies and doesn't have wings. It's only a little less with those that do have wings. Submariner and those tiny wings on his ankles? Even Superman and the yellow sun? The earliest comics as you know he jumped around, not flew. In the comics and movies, it appears IM's light ability is a function of his "repulsor" beams/blasts. A type of Beamed Energy Propulsion. Something NASA continues to fund research into and already has a flavor of (Ion Propulsion) Right now, Ion propulsion currently generates enough thrust to be effective in outer space once free of earths gravity. BEP is viewed as the future of exploring outside our solar system, as it holds out the ability to offer vast increases in speed. Approaching theoretically the speed of light. In the movies IM has clearly used the repuslor units in his hands to help control and steer.

Really? How many Iron Man comics have you read, and from which time period? I read IM faithfully from about 1965 until maybe 10 years ago when I basically quit reading new comics. I didn't find Tony Stark quiet as boring as you say, but otherwise completely agree that RDJ has totally made Tony Stark into the complex, egocentric, quirky inventor interesting character that he is in the movies and should have been in the comics. It's like the man was born to play this part. Other writers made Stark and IM a bit more interesting in the late 70's and 80's (the alcohol story line, some Avenger arcs), but especially from creation to mid 70's, IM followed Stan Lee's one note vision of "the super hero with super problems". The other big factor (besides RDJ) that makes IM such a great movie property - made him a good comic book hero as well - is how believable Iron Man is. DARPA has been working on exoskelton suits for a decade. They even have some pretty good ones too. Soldiers would be able to carry hundreds of pounds, march farther and faster. The problem is power supply. The suits work great as long as plugged into the wall. Batteries weigh to much and don't last long enough. If DARPA could solve the power issue, they'd weaponize and put in the field these suits tomorrow. Stark of course "solves" the power supply issue. So no mutant spiders. No freaky yellow sun. No sorta of a God or infused with enough lethal radiation to kill a city. Just your rich inventor genius and a suit of armor. The sort of hero we could all be and is even reasonable to believe in. Back to the original topic. I never said Deadpool would be a big as IM in the movies. I just noted that IM wasn't a household name before the movies. Guardians of the Galaxy wan't much of a name in the comics before the movies. Just saying I wouldn't bet against Marvel and Disney on any upcoming movie.

Iron Man was one of Marvel's better known superheroes before the movies. He starred in several cartoons going back to the 60s, was featured in countless toys, etc. I believe several Marvel heroes survived low publishing numbers because of the merchandise they were featured on. Where did you get the information concerning Robert Downey Junior and Avengers 2? I'd like to read more about that. What will be interesting to see is if Deadpool does succeed as a movie. Will Marvel continue to push the character in publishing? With the changes they made with X-Men overall (de-emphasizing them in favor of Inhumans), I'm not convinced there will be new Deadpool comics in a few years. Marvel is all about the movies and like it or not, they don't have the movie rights to Deadpool or the X-Men. I can see a day where they completely phase them out of their comic line entirely. Here's one article. I recall reading several that lead up to getting everyone signed for Avengers 2. As well as the Thor and Capt America sequels. http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/466022/20130509/robert-downey-jr-avengers-iron-man-scarlett.htm#.VKdO_CvF9I4 http://www.hypable.com/2013/05/07/avengers-2-cast-low-sequel-pay-marvel/ And apparently being a Marvel Super Hero (in cinema) isn't all perfect http://www.dailydot.com/fandom/marvel-avengers-contracts-gilded-cage/

Walking Dead averages a monthly circulation of about 70,000 copies a month. Your point is correct, but the scale is even larger. It's like 99.8% of those watching the show have no interest in the comics. I think your observations are interesting and worthy of consideration. But it's also worth noting that Iron Man has long been a fairly popular comic book character - among comic book readers and collectors.Not Spider-Man popular, but a consistent seller for Marvel and perhaps the best overall performing 1968 Marvel first issue. Yet he was virtually unknown in the larger culture until Robert Downey Jr made him a household name in 2008. Now Iron Man can lay claim to the iconic term and the franchise is a tent pole for Marvel/Disney. Heck, RDJ is the actor that single handedly has forced Marvel to pay the other actors better for Avengers 2 and the other superhero sequels. He flatly said he wasn't making any more movies where he got paid astronomically better than the other actors in superhero suits - and Marvel decided they couldn't go forward successfully without Iron Man and RDJ. Will a movie do the same for Deadpool? We won't know until the day. But if Marvel can make a franchise out of the strange collection of 3rd stringers in comics that called themselves the Guardians of the Galaxy, I wouldn't bet the rent money against the success of a Deadpool movie.

It makes sense that it could be both. Far more plausible than an extreme of one or the other. I have to say, I have enjoyed the discussion. Me too! It's been fun, I've learned things. Thank you!

You have no idea how hard that hits home for me right now. How old's your baby? 18 months in 5 days. Huge loads! Been there, done that. Such a cute age though. Boy or girl? Little boy and by little I mean giant. He is super cute but starting the whole tantrum thing. Any advice? Boy, good. Less nooks and crannies to clean. Advice? The hand off. Good advice. As for the tantrums, try to keep in mind that they do grow out of it. One day they wake up and they are all sweet again. Then with boys around 16 or so the hormones kick in. You'll be reminded how much trouble you were to your dad. But at least with boys you mostly know the score. They complain bitterly about things perceived as unfair. Girls learn to look at you sweetly and say "OK Daddy" when you say no. Then a few days later they casually mentioning they are studying at a friends house. Which just happens to be the same day to the thing you said no too. Doesn't matter. Being a parent is the greatest. I realized a long time ago there'd be no statue of me in the park, no school or library with my name. Raising good human beings - best job in the world and a lasting legacy.

I do wish other dealers would chime in here.. New collectors will actually spend money in a fashion and in amounts that longer term collectors might think foolish. But you are correct, it is a rare new customer that comes in buying high dollar items. They might spend a lot of money, but my experience is they also want a lot of stuff (they are new, they have a lot of wants). Typically, it takes a while to warm up to the idea that a $1000 spent on one book is often a better investment than a $1000 spent on 500 books. It's an advance collector that recognizes the value of more desirable, much more expensive items. There are exceptions and they make for interesting stories. I've thought about posting up one such recent story. Keep in mind these are exceptions. Bonhams (world's third largest auction house) had their first ever auction of comic books. Typically they are very high art and collectibles. Things like James Bond cars, ancient armor, art by the masters, vintage furniture. Some comic lots did - well - very well. Seems some people in the crowd - art dealers that frequent Bonhams auctions - figured comics must be great if Bonhams is auctioning them. They had no comic book experience. Some maybe researched Heritage Auctions. Others just bid away. The bidding on the floor got spirited. Bidders online seemed to know better. Hulk 181 in 9.8 sold for over $16K. The person buying it thought they were bagging a bargain because they saw that Heritage sold one for $26K....... Problem was that was 2009. Book has been selling for 9.5-11K the last couple of years. The buyer rather bummed upon learning the reality. It's OK though. He'll do really well on the raw lots he bought. Meanwhile - an illustration of why GPA is only one pricing source and cannot be some sort of bible all by it'self - now people are listing Hulk 181's for the 90 day GPA average of $13,600 and noting the most recent sale of $16,250. Well, one person's big mistake doesn't make for a new trend. Wouldn't this type of behavior support my point of view in our other discussion? No, Not unless you think a couple of people that could affect books like WD 1 or NM 98. Both of which have very large numbers of NM+ copies. There are 89 copies of Hulk 181 in 9.8. Maybe 15 copies sell a year. 3-4 every quarter. One rogue sale creates and immediate bubble in the 90 day average. It hardly affected the 12 month average, which remains below 11K. Compare this to WD 1 (762 copies in 9.8 almost 100 copies sold past 12 months) NM 98 (1692 copies in 9.8. Over 260 copies sold last 12 months, 73 past 90 days A few newbies flashing cash can't make an impact on books with this kind of availability. It takes a herd of people. Those people are already collectors. Adding the books to their want list. Prices are going up - buzz is going around - and they want in. It's cool to own what others envy - and if prices are going up you can justify the expense. You and I really only disagree in one area. You believe TV shows and movies bring in large numbers of new collectors looking for those books. Or at least you believe that is the case for WD. And that all these new collectors bring lots of money and send the prices upwards. As a dealer like forever, I see almost none of that. I know lots of friends that watch the Walking Dead. Or loved the Avengers. Or Captain America. Or Thor. The women especially love Thor. And WD for that matter. They all know I have this weird business of buying and selling comic books. No one wants a comic book. No one wants to know what issue Michone first appears on. No one is interested in even reading the collected trades. Occasionally someone is interested to learn Rick is missing a hand or Daryl isn't a character in the comic. Or that Michone's hatred of the Governor in the comics made more sense and her retaliation much more brutal. But that's it. "Huh? Really?" But they still don't want the comics. "What about Beth. Can you believe they killed her off?! Poor Maggie" You see the major WD stars in high demand at shows. Their VIP's sell out. Yes, comic book collectors go to them, but most are fans of the show and want a picture and autograph. But I can no more prove you wrong than I can prove myself right. I find myself wondering if we are arguing a false dilemma? Perhaps it's both: It's possible that both large numbers of existing collectors add issues to their want lists when a movie is announced or TV show keeps growing in popularity - AND that new readers and collectors are born from those same movies and TV shows. Both things happening, both contributing to upward prices that start looking like bubbles to a lot of people.

I do wish other dealers would chime in here.. New collectors will actually spend money in a fashion and in amounts that longer term collectors might think foolish. But you are correct, it is a rare new customer that comes in buying high dollar items. They might spend a lot of money, but my experience is they also want a lot of stuff (they are new, they have a lot of wants). Typically, it takes a while to warm up to the idea that $1000 spent on one book is often a better investment than $1000 spent on 500 books. It's an advance collector that recognizes the value of more desirable, much more expensive items. There are exceptions and they make for interesting stories. I've thought about posting up one such recent story. Keep in mind these are exceptions. Bonhams (world's third largest auction house) had their first ever auction of comic books. Typically they are very high art and collectibles. Things like James Bond cars, ancient armor, art by the masters, vintage furniture. Some comic lots did - well - very well. Seems some people in the crowd - art dealers that frequent Bonhams auctions - figured comics must be great if Bonhams is auctioning them. They had no comic book experience. Some maybe researched Heritage Auctions. Others just bid away. The bidding on the floor got spirited. Bidders online seemed to know better. Hulk 181 in 9.8 sold for over $16K. The person buying it thought they were bagging a bargain because they saw that Heritage sold one for $26K....... Problem was that was 2009. Book has been selling for 9.5-11K the last couple of years. The buyer rather bummed upon learning the reality. It's OK though. He'll do really well on the raw lots he bought. Meanwhile - an illustration of why GPA is only one pricing source and cannot be some sort of bible all by it'self - now people are listing Hulk 181's for the 90 day GPA average of $13,600 and noting the most recent sale of $16,250. Well, one person's big mistake doesn't make for a new trend.

Without going back through the entirety of both of our posts, I think the major difference in our opinion is who is buying Walking Dead 1. Existing readers and comic collectors cannot be the only ones purchasing the book, simply because the price is going up. In order for prices to increase, demand relative to supply needs to increase. This means people are buying that book that were not before - new people are entering the market. It isn't possible for the same group of people to continually be buying and selling the book to one another for higher and higher prices - that simply wouldn't work. Thank you for defining just what our main difference of opinion might be. I for one was not sure! With the focus now narrowed, this is easy: I believe you approach the statement highlighted above from a perspective that does not consider how many existing comic book collectors there might be. You are right - in that it is not the same group of people continually purchasing the book from one another. It is rather - with the shows continuing success - an increasing number of existing comic book collectors deciding they would like to own the early/key issues. See what the excitement is about and not miss out of something big. The problem is I cannot tell you - I don't know if any one can - just how many people there are that consider themselves "comic book collectors" But I believe it is likely a lot larger than you seem to think - and it's certainly many times larger than the print run of WD 1. Probably NM 98 for that matter. Many years ago, it was popular to suggest that number of comic book collectors was some multiplier - anywhere from 10 to 50 - times larger than the Overstreet Comic Book Price Guide. The belief being - largely based on statements by LCS owners, that one out every xxx collectors that frequented their stores purchased a price guide. Now there are several bugs with that formula, not the least of which is Diamond doesn't say how many copies of the OPG they sell. They just say it sells well. Last time I heard a circulation figure, it was about 40,000 copies - this before Diamond purchased them. Just 20x that number is closing in on a million. I also remember reading an article - I think by the owner of World's Finest Comics - that stated based on sales of the OPG that the number of comic book collectors world wide had to be closing in on the one million mark. I'm working from memory about an article (it was in his mail out catalog) over 20 years ago, but I think he said the OPG has sold like 80,000 copies and that was why he believed there had to be close to a million collectors. Now not only is the current circulation of the OPG unknown, but other viable pricing sources exist. Online sales and auction venues create more places to purchase - there exist comic book collectors that rarely if ever visit a LCS. Circulation numbers of current comic books are equally un-enlightening. Since traditional newstand distribution is uncommon, most comics printed - for most titles - probably are sold to collectors. BUT - vast numbers of comic book collectors do not or rarely read new comics. Myself included. I've done mail order sales of collectible comics since 1978. The great majority of the collectors on my mailing list do not read new comics at all. Most of the few that do still purchase new comics purchase only a couple of titles out of habit. Its a handful - half dozen maybe - that are reading and collecting new stuff. Attendance at comic conventions is way up, with new shows everywhere. NYCC supposedly drew 151,000 people this year. Of course we know lots of people attending the show don't collect comics. And we know most comic book collectors didn't go. Perhaps one clue might be this. Diamond has 2600+ accounts that order from them. I think we can safely assume a LCS can't survive on 5, 10 or even 50 customers. The two here in Evansville are probably serving a base of 300-500 true comic collectors as well as a bunch of people into gaming that might by an occasional comic. And Diamond's accounts are nearly all brick and mortar stores selling new comics. There are all the online dealers, all the eBay dealers that service the vintage only, don't read new comics collector. And dealers in other countries that get their merchandise from somewhere besides Diamond. I think it is possible there are a million comic book collectors world wide. But if there are only 1/2 that number, 1/4 that number - then it doesn't take but a small percentage of them adding a book to their want list to make prices jump. It's not a group of 10,000 people flipping books back and forth at each other. Ignoring the sarcasm to start, what you are asserting doesn't make sense from an economical standpoint. I think you are saying that just more of the already existing population of comic collectors are now interested in the book. That is far less plausible than the exposure of the show drawing new buyers (mostly speculators and "investors"). The only way the type of aggressive organic growth WD1 experienced is through new buyers entering the market. Otherwise the price would not have rapidly grown as the population of buyers (and thus the demand) did not. Without and influx of new purchasers, the price of something popular would only grow at rates slightly ahead of inflation and surely at a much less aggressive curve. I appreciate the detail and thought you put into your argument, but that doesn't make it accurate. Your assertion is incorrect, more people are entering the market and buying WD 1. This is easily proved when you start perusing eBay sellers other items for sale and find a variety of things, but not more comics. Sure some sell comics, but just as many don't. I meant no sarcasm. Earlier, I was not for certain what our core disagreement was. We seemed to actually agree on many points but still disagree. Just saying I am wrong doesn't make it so. My explanation is just as likely as yours. I believe much more likely based easy observation. More collectors - existing collectors - are adding WD 1, NM 98 to their want list. Books like NM 98, along with other movie/TV pumped books like FF 44-46, 52, Avengers 181 Ms Marvel 1 - Detective 474 , Inhumans 1 (on and on) are proof of what I'm saying. All of these books have spiked upwards in price and the general public doesn't know anything about them. It is comic book collectors that hear about a Deadpool movie, a Black Panther movie, an Antman movie, an Inhumans movie or Deadshot being in the Suicide Squad movie - all projects years in the future - that add these books to their want list and propel the prices skyward. I've been a comic book dealer since 1978. Avengers 28, Detective 474, Avengers 181, Thor 165 & 166, Captain Marvel 18, Marvel Super Heroes 13 and 18, Inhumans 1. Just name a planned or even rumored movie/TV show. These books sat around in catalog after catalog for years, occasionally selling. Then a movie gets announced and everyone wants them. They aren't new collectors. It's the same collectors. Collectors that did not want the books UNTIL they read about the movie/TV show being planned. Walking Dead's only difference is it's been a successful TV show for a while. The comic book sales still draw from comic book collectors. The only plausible reason I can see that "bubbl'ish" market prices would not be simple herd mentality of many people seeking the same book at the same time is if the herd is vastly smaller than I think. So let's redirect. How many comic book collectors do you think there are in the world? While considering that number, I suggest giving thought to things like: How does CGC and competitors stay in business servicing say 10,000 collectors? How do 2600 comic book stores in the US stay in business ? How does eBay support a selling market place that routinely has around 3 million comic books for sale? The answer has to be that there are lot of people that collect comic books. Not a lot like 5,000 or 10,000 or even 200,000. A lot like pushing a million. And those collectors add and delete things from their want lists all the time. Often times at the same time.

Without going back through the entirety of both of our posts, I think the major difference in our opinion is who is buying Walking Dead 1. Existing readers and comic collectors cannot be the only ones purchasing the book, simply because the price is going up. In order for prices to increase, demand relative to supply needs to increase. This means people are buying that book that were not before - new people are entering the market. It isn't possible for the same group of people to continually be buying and selling the book to one another for higher and higher prices - that simply wouldn't work. Thank you for defining just what our main difference of opinion might be. I for one was not sure! With the focus now narrowed, this is easy: I believe you approach the statement highlighted above from a perspective that does not consider how many existing comic book collectors there might be. You are right - in that it is not the same group of people continually purchasing the book from one another. It is rather - with the shows continuing success - an increasing number of existing comic book collectors deciding they would like to own the early/key issues. See what the excitement is about and not miss out of something big. The problem is I cannot tell you - I don't know if any one can - just how many people there are that consider themselves "comic book collectors" But I believe it is likely a lot larger than you seem to think - and it's certainly many times larger than the print run of WD 1. Probably NM 98 for that matter. Many years ago, it was popular to suggest that number of comic book collectors was some multiplier - anywhere from 10 to 50 - times larger than the Overstreet Comic Book Price Guide. The belief being - largely based on statements by LCS owners, that one out every xxx collectors that frequented their stores purchased a price guide. Now there are several bugs with that formula, not the least of which is Diamond doesn't say how many copies of the OPG they sell. They just say it sells well. Last time I heard a circulation figure, it was about 40,000 copies - this before Diamond purchased them. Just 20x that number is closing in on a million. I also remember reading an article - I think by the owner of World's Finest Comics - that stated based on sales of the OPG that the number of comic book collectors world wide had to be closing in on the one million mark. I'm working from memory about an article (it was in his mail out catalog) over 20 years ago, but I think he said the OPG has sold like 80,000 copies and that was why he believed there had to be close to a million collectors. Now not only is the current circulation of the OPG unknown, but other viable pricing sources exist. Online sales and auction venues create more places to purchase - there exist comic book collectors that rarely if ever visit a LCS. Circulation numbers of current comic books are equally un-enlightening. Since traditional newstand distribution is uncommon, most comics printed - for most titles - probably are sold to collectors. BUT - vast numbers of comic book collectors do not or rarely read new comics. Myself included. I've done mail order sales of collectible comics since 1978. The great majority of the collectors on my mailing list do not read new comics at all. Most of the few that do still purchase new comics purchase only a couple of titles out of habit. Its a handful - half dozen maybe - that are reading and collecting new stuff. Attendance at comic conventions is way up, with new shows everywhere. NYCC supposedly drew 151,000 people this year. Of course we know lots of people attending the show don't collect comics. And we know most comic book collectors didn't go. Perhaps one clue might be this. Diamond has 2600+ accounts that order from them. I think we can safely assume a LCS can't survive on 5, 10 or even 50 customers. The two here in Evansville are probably serving a base of 300-500 true comic collectors as well as a bunch of people into gaming that might by an occasional comic. And Diamond's accounts are nearly all brick and mortar stores selling new comics. There are all the online dealers, all the eBay dealers that service the vintage only, don't read new comics collector. And dealers in other countries that get their merchandise from somewhere besides Diamond. I think it is possible there are a million comic book collectors world wide. But if there are only 1/2 that number, 1/4 that number - then it doesn't take but a small percentage of them adding a book to their want list to make prices jump. It's not a group of 10,000 people flipping books back and forth at each other.

An interesting post, but there are some "facts" in this post that I don't believe can be proved to be true and might be false. You are no doubt correct that there are far more copies of NM 98 than Walking Dead 1,We don't actually know how many copies of WD 1 there might be. We know Diamond estimated 7,266 copies were shipped to North American retailers. Walking Dead creators have always been tight lipped about how many copies were printed. For all we know Kirkman has half a dozen long boxes stuffed full in his living room. If the print run on WD 1 corresponds with the Diamond figures, then it is interesting to note that 29% of the total printed copies have been slabbed by CGC and figure still more have been slabbed by a few other grading companies whose names shall not be mentioned. You are most likely wrong about the audience size of a Deadpool movie versus the Walking Dead TV show. Walking Dead is a very popular TV show. T V Show. This past season was it's most viewed yet. averaging close to 15 million viewers. A successful superhero type movies - say Iron Man 2 or Batman Returns sells 40 million tickets. Widely successful ones do 2x that number. Look up all time box office adjusted for ticket price. Gone With the Wind is number 1, have sold over 200 million tickets. A Deadpool movie in wide theater release is going to reach more people that the WD TV show. Last point: WD comic averages sales of what, 70,000 copies a month? It is consistently in the top 20 of comic book sales, sometimes top 10 (it was #14 in November) I think it's been #1 at least once with a special and a gazillion different covers. All of this with a TV show that's been running 5 years and has a viewership of 15 million. The comic and the TV show reach completely different audiences. There is NOT - I will swear to my dying breath - ANY meaningful cross over of people watching the show buying the comic. If there was - if only one in 100 people watching the show were buying the comic, the monthly sales of WD would triple. We'd be seeing sales of 200,000 + copies a month. We haven't yet, we aren't going to. Of course the same is pretty much true for movies as well. Any bump in comic sales is small and according to comic store owners just existing collectors adding a title, not people off the street. My point being that comic book collectors decide what books are worth. TV, movies - that's all good. But the value of the books the TV shows and movies are based on is still being determined by collectors. EXISTING collectors. Not new ones brought in by the movies and TV shows. First of all thank you for taking the time to read my post and write a reply. I appreciate you taking time to discuss the topic and defend your personal position. Now on to the discussion: No offence taken. <3 I never said one was more popular than another. WD has a TV show so it's current pop culture stature is certainly larger, the WD franchise/brand better known. Probably more than one way to measure popularity of a character among comic book collectors. But honestly IDK. The relative popularity of the characters wasn't part of my post Without the show the comic wouldn't be worth near as much as it is. I agree. It would worth less. Worth less without TV show or worth more with TV - doesn't change what I said. It is EXISTING comic book collectors that are setting the value based on what they are willing to pay. There are no meaningful number of people that watch the show, see "Talking Dead" afterwards and say "gee, that is so cool. It's based on the comic. I think I will go visit my LCS and drop 5K on the first few issues. They are ALL EXISTING comic book collectors. You also appear to be trying to differentiate between the comic book readers and the those just speculating. Some might be doing both and I don't know how you might decide what the % break down is - or why it matters. At least they BUY the comic book. That more than the 15 million people watching the show do. Your entire paragraph above appears to be constructing a straw man just to kick it down. Sorry, I couldn't get that post to "quote right" Most of what you say about the actor and the complexity of the character and it's unlikelihood of being a hit movie is speculation on your part. We'll know who the movie does when it comes out. As for reach, comparing TV (the small screen) to movies (the big screen) sorta misses the point. Actors aspire for the big screen for a reason. Yes, I agree. But WD would sell far, far more if even a tiny percentage of the TV audience took an interest in the comics. IMHO, both books are in bubbles, WD is just likely to take a lot longer to lose value. Like others that have commented, I'm not buying the market cap being any proof of said bubble. The formula for market cap as commonly used in the stock market is just the total number of shares multiplied by current stock price. In the case of comic books if you tried to apply market cap, you first have to know how many copies their are. Something you know for sure about stocks, nothing but a guess on comics. Plus companies that issue stocks do all sorts of stuff to affect their stock price. Buy backs, splits, issue new stock. None of things would seem to have comparable actions in comics. So it looks like a false analogy. You like Deadpool - but you can leave the "too" off. I don't much care for the Deadpool and sincerely dislike the WD - TV and comics. I only watch the WD show to bond with my wife and daughter (who love it). My interest is rather narrow - just the value and the possible bubble. As for "it takes everything that Walking Dead is about" to sustain the price - we agree. But that price is being sustained by existing comic collectors. It's not about a silly idea of everyone watching the show buying the book. ALMOST NO ONE watching the show buys the comic book. Not even 1%. Not even one half of one %. The show has huge impact on the value of the book. But that the book should be worth more because of the show is solely in the mind of the existing comic book collectors. People watching the show don't give a toot what the comic is about or worth Hopefully my response is as long winded as yours!

An interesting post, but there are some "facts" in this post that I don't believe can be proved to be true and might be false. You are no doubt correct that there are far more copies of NM 98 than Walking Dead 1,We don't actually know how many copies of WD 1 there might be. We know Diamond estimated 7,266 copies were shipped to North American retailers. Walking Dead creators have always been tight lipped about how many copies were printed. For all we know Kirkman has half a dozen long boxes stuffed full in his living room. If the print run on WD 1 corresponds with the Diamond figures, then it is interesting to note that 29% of the total printed copies have been slabbed by CGC and figure still more have been slabbed by a few other grading companies whose names shall not be mentioned. You are most likely wrong about the audience size of a Deadpool movie versus the Walking Dead TV show. Walking Dead is a very popular TV show. T V Show. This past season was it's most viewed yet. averaging close to 15 million viewers. A successful superhero type movies - say Iron Man 2 or Batman Returns sells 40 million tickets. Widely successful ones do 2x that number. Look up all time box office adjusted for ticket price. Gone With the Wind is number 1, have sold over 200 million tickets. A Deadpool movie in wide theater release is going to reach more people that the WD TV show. Last point: WD comic averages sales of what, 70,000 copies a month? It is consistently in the top 20 of comic book sales, sometimes top 10 (it was #14 in November) I think it's been #1 at least once with a special and a gazillion different covers. All of this with a TV show that's been running 5 years and has a viewership of 15 million. The comic and the TV show reach completely different audiences. There is NOT - I will swear to my dying breath - ANY meaningful cross over of people watching the show buying the comic. If there was - if only one in 100 people watching the show were buying the comic, the monthly sales of WD would triple. We'd be seeing sales of 200,000 + copies a month. We haven't yet, we aren't going to. Of course the same is pretty much true for movies as well. Any bump in comic sales is small and according to comic store owners just existing collectors adding a title, not people off the street. My point being that comic book collectors decide what books are worth. TV, movies - that's all good. But the value of the books the TV shows and movies are based on is still being determined by collectors. EXISTING collectors. Not new ones brought in by the movies and TV shows.

The "value" of low census books is very skewed. The reason why the low census MTU high grades go for so much is the ultra high grade completions and those who compete seriously on the registry are willing to bid them up. Once that group has satisfied their needs, the price the next tier of collectors are willing to pay drops off a cliff. How many collectors are willing to pay $5K for a MTU 1 9.8? How many collectors would pay $800 for a NM 98 9.8? If you offered dealers the choice of (1) MTU 1 9.8 for resale or (6) NM 98 9.8; which one do you think the large majority will select to move inventory? Ultimately supply and demand determine the price, but demand is much more influential. I don't really disagree with you or others - but I don't see things identically either. Demand I agree much more influential. How many collectors are willing to pay 5K for MTU 1 in 9.8? It's hard to say, since it's an exclusive club that at most only three people get to belong to. The last one sold was six years ago. It seems very likely that if another is offered for sale it too will bring a very high price - perhaps 5K or more. If you offered dealers 1 MTU 1 9.8 for resale or 6 NM NM 98.....? Really not a meaningful question. Is there a reason the dealer can't buy both? Especially if offered at the same price? I would purchase either or both if offered at prices I thought I could resell and make money on. I think where maybe the source of any disagreement is that some here are greatly underestimating the collector interest in MTU 1, especially in true NM grades. MTU 1 doesn't have the level of interest as NM 98, that is true. But we are not talking about Kong the Untamed 1 either. It's regarded as a 40+ year old Spider-Man #1. The title ran 150 issues and always sold well. So it's on a lot of collectors want list that read/collected comics in the 70's. MTU 1 also has far less potential for a dramatic flame out than NM 98 if the movie is a dude or Marvel puts a hack team on the character or runs him into the ground.

In which universe? Our Universe? From the CGC census: MTU 1 604 total CGC graded copies 3 @ 9.8 8 @ 9.6 59 @ 9.4 11.5% of the graded copies of MTU 1 are NM or better. 1/2 of one percent are 9.8 New Mutants 98 5821 total CGC graded copies 1 @ 10 8 @ 9.9 1432 @ 9.8 1622 @ 9.6 848 @ 9.4 Not only are the almost 10x more CGC graded NM 98 than MTU 1, 67% of the graded NM 98's are 9.4 or better. 25% are 9.8 or better. I think that counts as MTU 1 being extremely rare compared to NM 98 NM #98 has much more demand. Supply and Demand. There are plenty of modern comic books with low prints under 10,000, but nobody wants to pay for more then cover price for them because there is low demand for them. An example more people want Spawn #1 then Spawn #246. Spawn #1 has a print run in the millions, while #246 couldn't`t break 14,000. Sometimes demand is a bigger factor then supply. I don't disagree at all that there is much more demand. But these two books illustrate supply and demand very, very well. We agree that NM 98 has way more demand. But there are VASTLY more copies. The result? MTU 1 is actually worth more in the NM grades GPA for MTU 9.4 last sale $526 9.6 last sale $895 9.8 - only one sale ever (only 3 exist) $5,000 I'm using "last sale" on MTU 1 because so few NM or better copies get sold. Only three recorded sales of 9.4 the last 12 months, only one 9.6 in in the last 18 months and the only 9.8 recorded ever sold was 2008. The 90 day average for NM 98 would be more reflective since 100's of copies change hands monthly. But I'll use the last sale to be consistent. GPA for New Mutants 98 9.4 last sale $375 9.6 last sale $401 9.8 last sale $800 No one should contest that NM 98 has tons of demand. If not for lots of demand this common as grass book wouldn't be worth crapola. But there exists significant demand for MTU 1 and it is massively less available in true NM grades. So - supply and demand at work - it's worth much more. In the case of 9.8 like 6x more. BTW, just in case anyone checks my numbers. That MTU 1 9.8 recorded as sold for $103 is a goof. If you run the serial number, it's issue 150. Which explains who autographed the book

In which universe? Our Universe? From the CGC census: MTU 1 604 total CGC graded copies 3 @ 9.8 8 @ 9.6 59 @ 9.4 11.5% of the graded copies of MTU 1 are NM or better. 1/2 of one percent are 9.8 New Mutants 98 5821 total CGC graded copies 1 @ 10 8 @ 9.9 1432 @ 9.8 1622 @ 9.6 848 @ 9.4 Not only are the almost 10x more CGC graded NM 98 than MTU 1, 67% of the graded NM 98's are 9.4 or better. 25% are 9.8 or better. I think that counts as MTU 1 being extremely rare compared to NM 98

I doubt it will have much affect on value even if the sell every single copy. The book isn't expensive in even 9.0 grade. All the black on the book makes true NM better elusive. They'll be lucky if 10 copies are NM.

I do when I submit books like this under the proper tiers. This is a standard tier book. 15 business days. If you watch the website and know what to look for, you'll know if it is getting a purple label in about 10 business days. What do you look for? I can not detect restore myself so I will need to rely on CGC. Your question could be taken two ways. The first is what to look for yourself, book in hand. Someone else already answered that. The second take on your question could be what I watch for on the CGC submission portal. In the grading process, books are checked for restoration before they are graded. Sometimes quite earlier than grading. Once the resto check is done, the listing status of the submission changes. Verified, but pre resto check the submissions look like this 001 Amazing Spider-Man 300 5/88 Marvel Comics .0 Todd McFarlane cover & art Last black costume. After resto check 002 Incredible Hulk 181 11/74 Marvel Comics Universal .0 Herb Trimpe and Jack Abel art Herb Trimpe cover The difference is that the grade "type" shows up. (Modern, Universal , restored) After verified but before the resto check is done, the grade is listed as .0 After verified, before graded but after resto check is done the grade shifts to Universal, modern, restored with the grade listed as .0

I have no idea what the OP will do, but this thread has provided much laughter and fun for me. My family is no doubt wondering why I'm on the computer past midnight and laughing out loud. Comics General is such a blast sometimes....

But I've enjoyed his posts over time - as I have yours! You didn't just equate me and kav, did you...? I'm offended. I shall now compose an article for submission to Listverse. Not at all. Kav is the enthusiastic youngster that reminds me of myself (at times) when I was a lot younger. You're more a Jedi Master on all things comics. I've just enjoyed reading both sides.

But I've enjoyed his posts over time - as I have yours!

A very appropriate question - and one that cuts to the real issue here. It's the sort of question each person has to answer for themselves. The answer has a lot to do with your level of income, your aversion to risk, your level of expertise in detecting problems in a comic book that is in hand and even your personality type. So each of us can really only speak for ourselves. Would I want to be out the grading and shipping fees? No, not really. That is the risk you take. That risk for me is substantially reduced once I have book in hand, but it is still there as I'm only "fairly good" at detecting resto. Would I roll the dice on this book at this price? Yes I would. The OP is the winning bidder. Ultimately they have to decide. They probably owe you thanks for posting the "con" side effectively.

Yeah. Probably at the printer! damn you're stubborn <3 you can see some white from the BC on the front of book in question. The M is fully visible, as is the black line along the spine The copy you picture is has no white from the BC, the black line on the spine is missing and the very edge of the M in Marvel is not visible What you picture shows the books wrap is different. It doesn't prove anything else.

You might be right. But Measuring a book is the absolute least reliable way to detect a trim. As I said, this book in particular is well known for miswraps and funky cutting at the printers. In a period of comic book publishing where quality control was more idea than a reality, FF 48 stands out as a great example of bad. You can actually see the M in Marvel on this copy. If it isn't restored it's worth a few extra bucks just for that.

I do when I submit books like this under the proper tiers. This is a standard tier book. 15 business days. If you watch the website and know what to look for, you'll know if it is getting a purple label in about 10 business days.

I know it's not popular to say, but you can get good books at good prices from dealers like this. Not all of the books they sell have been altered. Their reputation results in many fine books selling on the low side of the price curve. You just need to be capable of evaluating for resto yourself or get such done before the 45 day eBay Buyer protection period is up. That said, I decided to look at the book. I think it is unlikely to grade the 8.5 it is listed at. Edge tanning, and some small chips out the FC. Along top there is a chip out and a bit of the top corner is gone. GPA on this book in 7.0/7.5 is around $500/$550. It sold for $381. An illustration of my point. I personally would pay and look it over closely. If I didn't see resto then I'd send it to CGC to be graded. Within a month I'd know if the grade was way off and there was any resto. Get my refund if there was big problem. If there isn't any problem and the book grades the 7.0/7.5 I think it will, you got a decent deal. The savings from purchasing raw paid for the grading, shipping and you had money left over for lunch. Should it get 8.0 your easily a couple of hundred bucks ahead after grading costs. You can't tell if a book has been trimmed just from a few pics. FF 48 is notorious for miswraps and funky cuts from the printer.