SOTIcollector

Are you sure their policy is "no returns" on raw books? I've seen lots of "no returns on slabbed books, and 7 day returns on raws"-type policies. But I've never seen a dealer with a stated policy that accepts slabbed returns but not raws. Is their "no returns" policy stated clearly when you purchase from them? If not, you could have some recourse through a state consumer protection agency. Your mileage may vary because laws differ from state to state, but where I'm from a "no returns" policy must be stated prior to purchase.

Oh, and thanks for sharing this. I couldn't help but reach out to the seller to let them know that there's an error in the listing. These sentence fragments, "Would receive a high grade from cgc. If you choose to get it graded," if expressed as a complete sentence, would be untrue. I don't know what grade CGC would give it, with those stickers it's no longer a high grade book. I thought the seller would want to know about the error, so they don't have an unhappy customer.

Although you're a noob, you're better informed than some so-called experts. The stickers on the back make you cringe, as they would any serious comic collector, so you have good instincts. The idjits who put the stickers on obviously have no respect for the comic. I've seen stuff like this before, and I just shake my head when I see somebody damage an otherwise valuable comic with stickers. That link that @'lorider posted points to something similar, but I don't see anything that connects that stupid verification process with stickers (from GenuineCOA.com) to the stupid verification stickers and certificates in the Star Wars auction (from Beckett, HollywoodMemorabilia.com, and "Authentic Stan Lee Excelsior Approved"). Maybe I'm missing something? What seems odd to me is that this Star Wars seems like it was triple-authenticated. There's a hollywoodmemorabilia.com "authentication", which can be looked up by serial number, and the serial number tells you it's for a Star Wars #1 signed by Stan Lee. Then there's also a Beckett authentication with a serial number and a sticker on the back. Then there's a "Stan Lee Authentic" sticker with yet another serial number. I don't understand why somebody would damage a book by putting stickers on it. I understand even less why somebody would need three seemingly distinct types of authentication. As I see it, if you need to "authenticate" a book over and over, then probably your "authentications" aren't worth much.

If you want to fill gaps so you can read the parts of stories that you are missing, then absolutely, do it. However, if you’re looking at just monetary value, don’t bother filling any runs. it is a common misconception among the non collecting public that things are worth more when assembled as a complete set. In my experience, though, that is not the case at all. Collectors typically are not looking for a set of Spawn 1-60 or 1-100, unless they can buy it at discount compared to the cost of buying the individual issues. Your Preacher run would not sell for significantly more just because it has those three missing issues. Think of it this way. Who is your potential buyer for a full run of Preacher? There are two possibilities: 1) a collector who wants to own the full series, or 2) a dealer who wants to sell off individual issues at a profit. Let’s look at #1. If somebody likes the series enough to want a full run, then that means they probably already own some, probably many, issues of the series. So they will only buy a full run if it would cost them less than going out and buying individual issues to complete the partial run they already have. As for scenario #2, somebody who wants to sell them individually at a profit would need to buy them at a steep (40% or more) discount. So, just buy what you like, fill the runs you want to read, and enjoy!

That's actually one thing that I'd say supports the theory that this was Wertham's book. I can think of only two reasons why somebody might have written that. One is that it actually was Wertham's book, and the other is that it's a forgery that somebody wanted to use to convince people it was Wertham's, probably to be able to sell the book for more than they'd otherwise get. Given that you bought it without knowing that was there, it seems the forgery scenario is unlikely. Forging something is pointless if the forger gets nothing out of it (although I suppose the case of forged-art-donor Mark Landis could be considered to disprove this notion). Wertham's files had a lot of comics, but a lot were also missing. When I say "a lot", I mean all the classic SOTI books are absent (and I'm not referring to just Classic Comics/Classics Illustrated). If you think of a SOTI book off the top of your head, it's probably not there. I'll list some that aren't in his files: Phantom Lady 17, Reform School Girl, Crime SuspenStories 20, True Crime #2 (the book Wertham cited as "dangerous" more than any other), Blue Beetle 54, Authentic Police Cases 6, Haunt of Fear 19, Crime and Punishment 59, Crime Detective 9, and so on. What remains in his files are lots of Silver Age books from his research into a sequel to SOTI (like Rawhide Kid and Fantastic Four, among others) and some lesser-known books actually referenced (but not pictured) in SOTI, like Captain Marvel 101, Howdy Doody 6, and Hopalong Cassidy & the Mad Barber. What happened to all of those classic books? It's anybody's guess. Could they have been sold off or given away by Wertham during his lifetime? Sure. In talking to old-time SOTI collectors, I have heard no stories about their existence. Here's what some of Wertham's books at the Library of Congress look like. They are consistently marked with a red ink. The red seems to fade to purplish in some of these photos, but I think that was just the lighting. They ink is typically reddish or pinkish. Here's a sample of his handwriting, found inside Captain Marvel #101. My interpretation of the handwriting: "She first tells ab[out] his wild imaginations ref: what else? Then she tells ab[out] his reading so many c-B's [Wertham's common abbreviation for comic books]" Typically, when Wertham would find an offending panel, there would be a notation in the margin singling out particular panels. From page 88 of SOTI (quoting a child): I don't think they should read Captain Marvel. Look at this one with all the pictures of the man without his head! Here's Wertham's Hopalong Cassidy & the Mad Barber from the Library of Congress files. In the second picture, what looks like a marking in the middle panel is actually bleed-through of the pen from the other side. From pp. 308-309 of SOTI: Children have shown me a comic book which mothers must think is "good." It is produced by one of the biggest comic-book publishers, is given away free by a famous-brand food manufacturer and has the name of Hopalong Cassidy on it. It shows an insane" barber running loose with a sharp razor. He ties an old man to the barber's chair, brandishing a razor. The old man: "He's stropping the razor! And he's got that mad look on his face! He'll cut my throat! GULP!" A close-up follows with the face of the old man bound to the chair, the face of the barber, the knife and the neck. The same scene is shown a second time, and a third. Then comes Hoppy, twists the barber's arm backward and knocks him out so he sees stars: "WHAM!" I have talked to children about this book. They do not say this book is about the West, or about Hopalong Cassidy, or about a barber. They say it is about killing and socking people and twisting their arms and cutting their throats. Here's the Howdy Doody #6 in Wertham's files. The note on the front has Wertham's -script at the bottom, but it's unclear to me whether the printing "Even Howdy Doody - See television has race hatred" is Wertham's. Wertham had a lot of problems with the comics he saw, including the grammar. Here, it seems he was upset about the "Whaddya." He wasn't wrong, though, in calling out the racist stereotypes in comics. In fact, Wertham was ahead of the curve when it came to calling out racism. Many don't know that his testimony in a Delaware court case, regarding the detrimental effect of segregation on students, was later used in the landmark Brown vs. the Board of Education of Topeka case. So, there's what I know about Wertham's books. I hope this helps. Steve

Very cool find! It seems that Wertham held onto some, but not all, of the comics that he used in his research. He died in 1981, and his materials were donated to the Library of Congress. At some point the Library of Congress realized it had duplicates in the material and sold off some extras. So some items that Wertham had definitely ended up in the hands of collectors. One boardie has the copy of the 1951 New York Legislature report on comics that Wertham used to own, and which the LOC sold off. What remained in the Library of Congress was, I believe, one copy of each distinct comic that Wertham had. I have photos of those comics from the Wertham files from about 2013, after the LOC opened the files up to researchers. Those comics have very distinctive pen markings on them. Those pen markings matched Wertham's handwriting, and those markings don't match what I'm seeing here. I'm not saying this wasn't Wertham's writing, only that it doesn't match the notations I recall seeing. I'll have to dig those photos out and do a comparison. Of course, this could have been something by Hilde Mosse or one of Wertham's other assistants who worked with him. The "Wertham's Copy" notation is particularly interesting. Somebody wrote that, and whoever wrote it thought that information correct and was significant. It's definitely a really cool finding. Gotta run, now... more thought and maybe photos when I get a chance.

Welcome to the boards! This thread should help.

I guess I should have rotated the picture before posting.

Good question. I didn’t catch his name. With the show floor plan I could probably figure it out, but I’d rather not shame him in a public forum. If he had been intentionally ripping people off, selling them something that was not what he claimed it to be (like, say, a heavily damaged bootleg book erroneously called an “exclusive”), I would have no problem warning the public about him. Instead, maybe he was just having a bad day and it came out in a way that I found to be rude. So I’ll decline to provide more info on him.

It’s great to read about the show. I thought I’d add my show report as well. I realize that I come across a bit as a you-kids-get-off-my-lawn old geezer, so if your tolerance for that is low you may prefer to scroll past this. When trying to get to the show, there were traffic signs guiding me to “BCC” or some such alphabet soup (I think there may have been four initials on the sign, but the initials were meaningless to me at the time). I had never been before and wasn’t aware that the show had previously been “Boston Comic Con.” I just followed my phone’s directions to the convention center, and it got me there just fine. The traffic signs were completely useless to anybody who was trying to find something which, in every bit of its marketing and every pixel of its website, is referred to as “Fan Expo.” The ticket purchase and registration experience seems to have been created by somebody who thought the airlines and cable companies just do too darned good a job at customer service. First there was the online ticket purchase the day before the show. After you’ve entered your information, you are presented with a page that tells you, and of course I’m paraphrasing here, “we’ll sell your information to our business partners (anybody who pays us) whether you like it or not.” If you don’t agree to this stipulation, then you can’t buy tickets. Is that even legal? I thought they had to give you the ability to opt out of that, but I could certainly be mistaken. After agreeing to that, they then force you to take a survey. How old are you? How much money do you make? What’s your gender? What are you interested in? What’s the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow? And so on. Again, they don’t give the ability to opt out. I did what I typically do with a survey that won’t allow me to opt out or select “none of the above.” I gave intentionally incorrect answers just to mess with their data. At the show, I went to the booth for pre-paid ticket sales, where they scanned my ticket and handed me a badge. You might think that’s when I could go into the show, but you’d be wrong. After receiving a badge, I was directed to a holding pen of approximately half a million people taking the next step: activating the badge that had been given out at the ticket booth. To activate the badge, I had to open my phone, navigate to a URL or scan a QR code, and then enter the 14-character alphanumeric code that was on my badge. After this hurdle, you might think I’d be able to go into the show. And you’d be wrong. Next, I was forced to answer a series of questions. I had to answer, for a second time, all of the same questions that I had been forced to answer the previous day. After that, my badge was finally activated and I was allowed into the show. I had read the show’s website carefully. It was billed as a show with celebrities and creators from all sorts of fandom. I could meet people who create comics, or anime, or TV shows or movies related to all sorts of fantasy and sci-fi and pop culture. Oh, and there would be some retailers there as well. I expected retailers selling Punko Flops and t-shirts and posters and toys and cosplay stuff. That’s what I expected, and that’s what I got. The website made no mention of vintage comic dealers, so I expected the comics would be largely modern stuff from a small handful of dealers who had comics. I was pleasantly surprised to find perhaps a dozen comic dealers, and maybe half a dozen who actually had some golden age books. I even found a GA book that would have fit nicely in my collection, but opted not to buy it from the rude seller who had just finished insulting a different customer. I was attending the show because my daughter was trying out a new costume she created for an obscure (to me) non-comics character. People recognized her and complimented her and she had a great time. I had a great time seeing her have a great time. If I were into cosplay, I probably would have loved the show enough to put up with that registration process again next year. There were plenty of comic creators at the show. There were lines a mile long for the super popular ones (e.g. Frank Miller), which came as no surprise to me. If I were into getting modern books signed, there’s a good chance I would have been really happy with the number of creators who were there. The Black Flag booth was quiet. They had a large four-booths-combined-into-one island, but did nothing active to make use of the enormous booth. The tables on three sides had nothing on them but Dum Dums, those micro-lollipops that are super cheap in big bags and that your kids throw away every Halloween. There were a couple seated people huddled over on one side of the booth, staring at their phones and dillgently ignoring everybody who walked by. Presumably if I had wanted to buy one of the non-acetate books they had on a small display, one of them might have acknowledged my presence. I loved seeing these at the show (photo borrowed from elsewhere). I’d love to hear others’ impressions of the show.

Here's another way to think about it. Somebody who knows absolutely nothing about comics would never just happen to end up with these exact five books, especially in the condition they appear to be. Somebody who knows a little about comics would know not to sell them on a little-known platform. Somebody with enough Internet savvy to use the app you describe would also be able to Google these books and easily learn their value and find more appropriate sales platforms. Unless I could hold the books in hand, I wouldn't touch the deal. And I wouldn't go out of my way to hold them in my hand, because I know exactly what I'd find: fakes.

I see nothing about the books that makes them appear to be fake. At the same time, I see posts like this on a regular basis, and it is usually because somebody is being offered amazing books like these at a phenomenal price. If that stack of books is legit, they are worth tens of thousands of dollars. And yet, if you offered me that stack for, say, $3000, I would pass unless I could inspect the books in person. Generally, a post like this leads to a scam 100% of the time. There are all kinds of ways books could be made to look like the real thing in photos, and yet still be complete garbage. More information about where the photo came from could help to ascertain authenticity. If they came from somebody who claims they know nothing about comics, run away fast.

Here's what Wertham had to say about this book (from p. 235 of SOTI): "Comic books direct children's interest not toward the right, but toward the wrong. In many stories the criminal wins to the very end, and you see the man who has murdered his wife triumphantly pouring the rest of the poison into the sink in the last picture. "

Hmmm. I was specifically looking for something without an order because the sequence of the books is not completely clear. That's why I avoided "first/second/third" and "A/B/C" nomenclature. It is clear that the John and George versions came first and second, but I have no way of knowing which of those two came first. It's clear that version Ringo was the third of those four, and Paul was the last of the four. So the sequence could have been John->George->Ringo->Paul, or it could have been George->John->Ringo->Paul. I'm wondering what would be considered the correct sequence for this naming convention? Does this naming convention imply a sequence of John, Paul, George, Ringo, because that's the most common sequence of those names? Would it be by birth date, earliest first: Ringo, John, Paul, George? Would it be by the date they joined The Beatles (or predecessor, such as the Quarrymen)? That might work here, because John and Paul started together, then added George, then added Ringo. This would fit with the "can't-really-say-which-of-the-first-two-was-the-first-one" narrative of the Peter Penny editions. And then what would become of this new, taller one that I just added to my collection? Is that George Martin? Billy Preston?

Based on the info you provided, I would not return it. I view returns as your recourse when you receive an item that was not as promised. You bought a book that has CGC’s opinion of a grade, and you got exactly that book. If the book had problems that occurred post-grading (shaken comic syndrome, cracked case) and those problems were not disclosed by the seller, you would have a reasonable case for returning. Grading is subjective. Graders at CGC determined this to be a 9.8. If you are interested in buying only books for which your opinion of the grade matches CGC’s opinion of the grade, then you should ask for enough photos ahead of time that you can make that evaluation before you buy. Otherwise, be prepared to be disappointed because your opinion of the grade will never match CGC’s opinion of the grade 100% of the time.

I joined in 1998. Back then, eBay was so unknown that they were set up at SDCC hawking their platform. I still have the free t-shirt they gave me, which convinced me I should check them out. My eBay ID was and still is the name of one of my websites. I got in before they stopped people from using dot-com in a username. The only real bargain I recall was buying Brian Bolland's original cover for Animal Man #2 for $600. I was mystified that somehow I won the auction because I figured market price was probably double or triple that at the time. I don't even think it was a snipe. I got a lot of other things back in the day that look like bargains now, but did not at the time. It was the later 90's or early 2000's when I discovered Matt Baker's romance books and I got a bunch for under $50 apiece. I picked up some great trashy Fox romance books for under $50 as well. And I was able to complete an original art collection with one piece from each of my silver/bronze favorites, like Starlin, Wrightson, BW Smith, Adams, Sienkiewicz and more. A lot of the things I bought didn't seem like bargains at the time, and for some I felt I was stupidly overpaying by shelling out multiples of Guide. I hated like hell shelling out something like 10x Guide for super low grade Mister Mystery 12. Of course, back then I had no clue just how much these things would take off and how happy I'd be that I spent the money when I did. If I hadn't bought Phantom Lady #17, Reform School Girl and some others back when I did, I'd never be able to touch them now.

I'm resurrecting this old thread for new information on Peter Penny and His Magic Dollar. It's one of the hardest-to-find SOTI books. There are only 12 copies on the census (11 regular and one "variant"). GPA shows only one sale of a graded copy (in 2017). It appears that there are four editions: the first two (John and George below) have three panels at the bottom of the front cover. I've never been able to compare them side-by-side, and the only thing I know of that distinguishes them is their measurements. Because one is narrower, the art seems to be a tiny bit smaller, leaving a significant art-free margin at the bottom. The third edition (Ringo) has no panels at the bottom of the cover, and the fourth edition (Paul) is a modification of the third, with the art partially redrawn. Today I added yet another version to my collection. It could be yet another edition, but I suspect it's just a copy that was trimmed to the incorrect size. The one in the middle is my new purchase. It appears to be identical to version Ringo (Ringo is pictured at right and left of it), except for the fact that the new one is noticeably taller at 10 3/4". Closer view: New one on the left; a more typical Ringo on the right. I might be inclined to think that this is a new edition of the book. However, take a look at the bottom of the cover. See how the extra 5/8" is blank? Now take a look below at the interior. It shows the "known" Ringo version on top of the "new"/taller version. Every page has a wide blank margin at the bottom. The art ends, and then there's an extra 5/8" inch on every page. I'm inclined to think that this is just a Ringo version that didn't get trimmed properly, rather than an entirely new edition. I'd welcome any thoughts as to whether this was intentionally or accidentally produced at the larger size.

What more could I want? I'd want an SOTI book! Oh, wait. That IS an SOTI book, and a darned awesome one at that!

Only if you expect to live 2,000 years.

@shadroch If you were expecting an entirely different back cover, you're mistaken. There are differences that KirbyTown pointed out, but I'd call those minor differences. This back cover of the fake is intended to look just like the real thing, right down to the smudged red ink on the "H" that starts the header "Here's Why You'll Make Money." For ease of comparison, here we have a real one (from Heritage) and the fake one (from page 1 of this thread). I respectfully disagree that it's a matter of finding which modern repro this is. If there were a mass-produced reprint or repro just like this, it would be common knowledge among the experienced collectors on this board and there would be numerous copies on eBay. My opinion is that this is a fake designed to deceive. My opinion is informed by the information in this thread, as well as the fact that nobody has stepped up to say something along the lines of "Oh, yeah, that's the one from Kyrgyzstan" or "I have one of those in my collection", and there are no reprints like this that I could find on eBay. I'm eager to hear other opinions or, better yet, actual evidence to the contrary.

The indicia is the one that would be expected on an original ASM #1. From the evidence presented, it appears that somebody manufactured this book to be a very convincing fake. I'm not saying it was the original poster; I have no way of knowing who created the fake, and the OP could even be a victim here. Unless there is a convincing reprint that I've missed, it seems to me that this was a fake that somebody created with the intention of deceiving. There was a time not long ago where the indicia was all you needed to determine authenticity for >99.9% of all comic books. There were a few exceptions of course. Some that come to mind: Some Famous First Editions with the covers removed could be differentiated only by their size There were counterfeit copies of Cerebus #1 and TMNT #1 Some of the JC Penney reprints from the mid-90's omitted the "second printing" notation, so they can be differentiated primarily by their 90's-era ads. But other than a few rare exceptions, you could typically look at the indicia and know just what you had. Those days are gone permanently. Now that high grade gold, silver, and bronze books can sell previously unthinkable prices, from tens of thousands to millions of dollars, counterfeiters are working their way into the hobby and that problem will only grow. Counterfeiters need access to images of original comics, the ability to print on both glossy and newsprint stock, a market with novices as potential targets. greed and a willingness to screw over others to make a buck. All of these things have become more accessible/prevalent in recent years. It's safe to assume that any book with a value in the tens of thousands will be counterfeited in the coming years. It's becoming more and more important for collectors of raw books to recognize other attributes that are much harder for a novice to discern: paper quality, print resolution, specific book sizing, staple types, and so forth. And all of this will make it harder for seasoned collectors to explain to a novice how they can be certain that a book is a fake.

I am having a tough time understanding why you are reacting so negatively. You asked for an opinion as to the authenticity of this item. Many experts have given their opinions. Yet somehow you are taking that to be accusations that you are a fraud. If you read carefully what was posted, nobody has said that you are a fraud. If you are not willing to listen to the opinions of multiple experts who say that what you have is a fake, then why even ask the question as to whether it is real?

It’s clear that what you pictured is a reproduction of the cover to Amazing Spider-man #1. I have collected comics for decades, and I have seen stories very similar to this many times. They typically fall into one of these categories: 1) An inexperienced collector finds something that they think might be a high dollar book. The book turns out to be a reprint or facsimile that is not a high dollar book. 2) A collector with some experience creates or obtains a facsímile of a high dollar book. They pose as an inexperienced collector asking about the value of the book, in hopes that somebody will be fooled and offer a lot of money for their fake.

It happens to me regularly. I resolve it by signing out, and then signing back in. I have not yet had to close all browsers and clear cookies. You may want to try just signing out and then back in first, just because it’s easier. If that doesn’t do it, then clearing cookies and closing browsers should do it.

No, because that list would go on to infinity. As others have stated, the list of grades that CGC currently assigns is here. https://www.cgccomics.com/grading/grading-scale/ There are a few 9.5’s out there as well, but CGC no longer uses 9.5. So now you know all legitimate CGC grade numbers. All other numbers are fake/don’t exist.