Balham's Finest

Without meaning to drag this part of the discussion out, I just want to say that I'm not "hating" on this title - since I'm not invested in the series I don't really care at all whether it goes up or down in value.

I've noticed comments on a few threads to the effect that anyone who doesn't like title X has some kind of ulterior motive - not the case here. Some people just like to collect and read books, and don't depend for either their livelihood or their collecting cash on their successes in buying and selling.

Hickman is great. Dragotta is great. East of West just isn't doing it for me. Good luck to all those who are speculating, and I'm happy for those who are not, but are enjoying reading the series.

Odd - no Manhattan Projects in Image's October 2013 solicitations...

#4 was better than the previous few - decent action. But I still think I'll drop this book after the first arc. It's by no means terrible, but there's a lot of better stuff out there... a lot of better Hickman stuff, in fact.

 

Oh, and Forbidden Planet in London had loads of the blanks at lunchtime today. They all looked in pretty good nick.

 

You're in the minority on this one it appears, but hey, not everyone has the same taste.

 

Yeah, it looks like it. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure I'll end up buying the TPBs at some point - but I just don't get that "OMG I have to read this every month the day it comes out" feeling from it.

Given that this looks like it'll develop into something pretty complicated it might be better read in large chunks anyway.

Here's a question about the events of #112:

#4 was better than the previous few - decent action. But I still think I'll drop this book after the first arc. It's by no means terrible, but there's a lot of better stuff out there... a lot of better Hickman stuff, in fact.

Oh, and Forbidden Planet in London had loads of the blanks at lunchtime today. They all looked in pretty good nick.

How to you go about getting cgc to label on their casing for the book when submitted?

 

Or...

You can say the covers are dreadfully dull all you like, but they are totally awesome.

Some MP links...

 

Like I said earlier, I have yet to see a bad review for this book. Another rave:

 

http://comicbuzz.com/2013/06/the-manhattan-projects-12-review/

 

The Manhattan Projects has always been good, boasting big ideas and a fascinating cast of oddball characters from the very beginning, but since issue #8 I’d argue the series has upped its game to a whole new level, with an unbroken chain of 5-star masterpieces. With this insanely high standard, The Manhattan Projects is beginning to challenge even the mighty Saga as the most consistently awesome comic currently in the market. 10/10

 

Podcast interview with Nick Pitarra:

 

http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/bastardcast/the-bastardcast/episode/25069728?autoplay=true

 

MP has always been better than Saga in my opinion. I think most people overrate Saga and underrate MP.

 

+10,000

They're both great - but if I had to choose one that I could never read again or know what happens, it would be Saga. I'd hate to miss whatever MP has in store...

Has there been any news about the tv show since the article in november of 2012 about NBC picking it up?

 

Seriously? If so, yes.

 

I really hope 'the Returned' doesn't bring further aggrevation and frustration for Revival fans.

I pray that rip off novel doesn't hit the best sellers list.

 

I watched the first episode of The Returned earlier this week and thought it was bloody good.

 

The Returned (Ressurected or whatever) worries me. If NBC Universal are picking up Revival, they're likely way behind ABC. The Returned have Brad Pitt's production team, they've already identified a cast and it seems as though they have a pilot.

 

Even if Revival airs (my guess is on Syfy), it'll seem like Revival are the copy cats when we all know the opposite may be true.

The Returned which I'm talking about is the French language (with subtitles) show playing on Channel 4 in the UK at the moment - Les Revenants. It's very good - people coming back from the dead in a completely normal state with no memory of having died and not realising how much time has elapsed. Sounds like you mean a US version of the same?

Has there been any news about the tv show since the article in november of 2012 about NBC picking it up?

 

Seriously? If so, yes.

 

I really hope 'the Returned' doesn't bring further aggrevation and frustration for Revival fans.

I pray that rip off novel doesn't hit the best sellers list.

I watched the first episode of The Returned earlier this week and thought it was bloody good.

it looks like hes standing on a shopping cart too, who the hell would stand on a shopping cart if they were surrounded by zombies... stooopid

Well he did fill one up with guns in the early issues, when he went into Atlanta with Glenn. I guess this is supposed to be referencing that.

I'm a fan of Neal Adams, but that's poo.

I love the cover! It'll look great in a slab.

 

Negan is an interesting character. He is really fun to watch...especially compared to Rick, who is glum most of the time.

It's a great cover.

I agree on Negan, too. He's one of my favourite characters at the moment, partly because of what you're alluding to - he's the only person that seems to be having any fun.

The look on his face... it was like he'd just opened his Christmas presents!

Today 111 comes out!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I didn't read the preview.......

It's a pretty good issue...

Selling raw books is a risk. If one is unwilling to take responsibility for one's wares then perhaps one should not be selling online. Frankly, I'm surprised there are people willing to argue the other side of this point. I myself circumvent these scenarios by trying to only buy and sell slabbed books. You are not a restoration expert. Neither am I. But that's not really a good reason for sticking an unsuspecting buyer with a restored book.

They wouldn't be unsuspecting in my scenario though, would they? I specifically told them I couldn't guarantee no resto. As it happens, this was just a discussion and not a sale.

Well then this whole back and forth seems simple enough. Some sellers are willing to accept accountability for the items they sell and some aren't. I suppose there's not much to do here regarding the PL but I am suprised that there are people willing to tell buyers to fugg off after an unfortunate deal.

The discussion got a bit sidetracked from my initial question, which was about the basis for you putting someone on the PL if you buy a raw book from them, without a guarantee, and it turned out to be restored (and assuming of course that they were unwilling to refund). Personally, I don't think that would be fair - or allowed under the rules for that matter, since whether you imply one or not, there is no official board policy that books are unrestored unless declared otherwise.

FAOD, if I did accidentally sell a restored book and the buyer was unhappy, then yes of course I would work something out rather than saying "tough" because it would be the right thing to do,

Do you assume that in the absence of a statement that a book is restored/trimmed, every raw book sold on the boards is guaranteed by the seller to be unrestored?

 

Yes, I do. You don't?

No, absolutely not. Why would you? In practice, unless you buy a book from the stands myself, or it's previously been a blue, or it's a modern, or you're a restoration expert, it's going to be hard to give a cast-iron guarantee that it's unrestored.

I've been in this situation recently - someone asked me in a PM if a silver age Batman that I was selling was restored. I bought it years ago from an online dealer with no discussion of whether it was restored. As far as I can see from looking at it, it's not.

I don't want to take the risk of selling it and having to refund and pay shipping if it gets graded and came back purple. Equally I don't want to sell it for a restored price if it's not. So I've told them that it's not restored as far as I know, but I bought it a while ago with no guarantee.

If you buy a book on the boards, on the basis of a scan and with no guarantee that it is not trimmed, then send it to CGC and it comes back restored, what do you do? Let's assume you go back to the seller and he says that he honestly didn't know it was trimmed. Would you still expect a refund?

 

I was in a semi-similar situation, in which I bought a book, got it graded, and it came back restored. It was a pricey book. I PMed the seller to let him know but did not demand that he refund me. I figured that was the risk of buying comics raw. The seller happened to be an abnormally standup guy and said he would refund all my expenses to the penny. I thought about it and took him up on the refund. The whole situation was unfortunate but I did not actually expect him to toss me that complete refund. He volunteered on his own. So I suppose my feeling would be to make the seller aware, put the onus on him/her to offer a refund, and use this to at least begin a conversation. Then decide accordingly what should be done about it. If the seller seems sincere then work out a mutually satisfying agreement. If the seller shrugs and says, "Whatevs. Your loss." Then nominate them for the PL. Ironically, I wish I had just kept the restored book I sent back. It's worth double now what I paid for it, even with the resto.

What would be your basis for recommendation to the PL? Do you assume that in the absence of a statement that a book is restored/trimmed, every raw book sold on the boards is guaranteed by the seller to be unrestored?

I'm not necessarily saying you'd be wrong to nominate, but interested in the thinking.

Moral dilemma: do I disclose trimming on a book that was undisclosed if I'm not the seller?

 

I checked with mod Architecht, and he suggested that I post my dilemma in this thread, and let the community decide what action to take.

 

Some months ago, I met a user on these boards to view some books for sale. By the pictures that were sent to me, I detected trimming on one of them. When I saw the books, I was certain there was trimming. I told him there was trimming, and he resigned himself to the fact that he'd overpaid for the book. He wasn't ready to sell at the restored price, so he kept it.

 

Fast forward to now. The user put up his books for sale, and the trimmed book was one of the offerings. Pictures in the thread were large, and no grade was given. I PMed him to ask if he'd disclose in the thread that the book was trimmed. He replied that it wasn't trimmed at all. I PMed one of the sellers on the boards who I've dealt with before, and he confirmed that the book appears to be trimmed. The book has since sold, and I feel terrible.

 

The boards seem like a place of full disclosure and good faith. Do I have the right to PM the buyer and warn him that he bought a trimmed book? Do I have the obligation to tell him, or should the buyer beware? Maybe he knows and bought it anyway. I just don't know.

 

What should I do?

 

I think this is a grey area.

 

I have no idea what your detection skills are, but in my experience most people get it wrong. Even with the book in hand it's difficult to determine. Shrinkage and other factors have confused many people.

 

Even if we assume that it is 100% trimmed, the seller may have taken it to someone he believes to be an expert, who decided that in his opinion it isn't trimmed. This happens all the time. So I don't think you can necessarily assume something nefarious on the part of the seller.

 

One thing is certain. If you PM the buyer and tell him that the book is trimmed, unless he has excellent detection skills on a par with CGC, he's probably going to see trimming as well. It's human nature.

I agree this is a grey area. But if you tell the buyer, and he goes back to the seller, there's no guarantee it will get him anywhere. It's dangerous to assume you're 100% right about the trimming. The point made above is correct - for all you know, the seller got worried after talking to you, went and got an expert second opinion and was told the book was not trimmed.

Here's a related question:

If you buy a book on the boards, on the basis of a scan and with no guarantee that it is not trimmed, then send it to CGC and it comes back restored, what do you do? Let's assume you go back to the seller and he says that he honestly didn't know it was trimmed. Would you still expect a refund?

This is just my opinion but I tend to think if someone doesn't like a book its very easy to say its confusing. That way they don't have to come out and say I don't like it because I don't like it.

I haven't read #3 yet but I'm digging this story. (thumbs u

 

Why would anyone be worried about saying they don't like a book?

Its just an excuse to say I don't like it cause it was too confusing.

Huh?

Your original post said that people who didn't like it would prefer to say "it's confusing" than "I don't like it", right? I'm asking why people would prefer to appear stupid than to simply say "I don't like it". Your post above makes it look like you're saying people who are confused would prefer to pretend that they aren't confused, they just don't like it.

Now I am confused - which may have been what you were aiming for in a very meta way.

Well played.

This is just my opinion but I tend to think if someone doesn't like a book its very easy to say its confusing. That way they don't have to come out and say I don't like it because I don't like it.

I haven't read #3 yet but I'm digging this story. (thumbs u

Why would anyone be worried about saying they don't like a book?

complexity is the best possible thing a comic book can have for me to enjoy it. Comics arent for kids anymore, its adult literature. Pointless violence or sex anyone can write, I want a good story that makes you think and isnt predictable or a series of cliches strung together.

I agree completely with this, but there seems to be an implication that anyone who doesn't like East of West is too stupid to understand it.

Speaking only for myself, I have no issues understanding the story - it just doesn't grip me. I'm not really interested in the characters or the world yet. That's not a Hickman problem, I'm a big fan of nearly everything else he's ever written, especially Manhattan Projects.

Anyway, the above should be qualified by the fact that I haven't read issue 3 yet. I intend to do that, and a few more, before deciding whether to continue with the series or not. But I want to defend the people who don't like it much yet against accusations of stupidity!

Didn't it take almost ten issues of MP for the series to pick up steam?

Not in story terms, no.

i hear what you're saying. i agree it's no Saga (never will be either, imo not much ever will be), but i feel that sometimes we are spoiled by good stuff AND the having to wait month to month to read some more.

This is one of the reasons I've enjoyed his run on Avengers so much, despite not being a Marvel guy at all - great story, great dialogue and two issues a month (three if you count New Avengers).

id like to point out that we are two issues in, of at least a 30 issue run. Cant have everything spoon fed immediately

I think we have had variations on this exchange already.

 

I don't need everything 'spoon fed' when I start a title, but it's nice to have some grounding such that you begin to care about the outcome. Alan Moore (for example) does a great job at finding a careful balance between 'slowly unveiling' and 'giving you what you need to know' when he starts a title.

 

I guess another way to look at it is that I haven't quite connected with the characters in the way that I did with Saga (to take another obvious example) early on. The tension between the siblings and the world-building have been very interesting, but it's just that, 'interesting', for me so far. I said much the same after the first few issues of Nowhere Men, another title I think is well crafted and has potential.

 

Just my ... I'll pick up #3 this week and see how it goes.

 

Yeah, I agree. It's nothing to do with not understanding what's going on - I'm talking about feeling gripped and engaged. There are plenty of series (Morning Glories being an obvious example) where I read, have no idea what's going on, and can't wait to find out what's next. East of West isn't one of those for me... yet.

Having said all of that, I'm reminded that I thought The Wire was a bit "meh" after the first couple of episodes. Five series on, my favourite TV programme ever!

Strangely, I feel quite ambivalent about East of West. I am a HUGE Hickman fan, and picked the series up on that basis, but the first couple of issues have left me a little cold. Planning to stick with it for a few more, but I can see myself dropping this.