newshane

Just saw the scans. That's got to be the ugliest 9.8 in CGC history.

So far, I have pulled a total of 10 books for submission. I have one box left, so that number may grow. I sent off 5 books this morning. This first small batch - the best 5 representations I could find of a specific issue - shall be pressed before submission to the CGC. I think only one book has an honest chance at a 9.9. I'm following the board's advice. Hopefully my worst book will somehow grade out at a 9.8. If that happens, they will have no choice but to give the other book a 9.9 - it's that far ahead of the other ones. It's important to note that I have NOT posted pics of this particular specimen. Of course there is a chance that they will nail the spine rub damage. But based on what I've heard in this thread, I might get a small pass since the distributors of the era were relatively brutal in regards to packaging (as you can see in my photographs). My experiment will certainly establish how the CGC, on a particular day at least, grades spine-rub damage from Modern Era books. The books I'm sending in are flawless - except for the spine-rub. So if my grade gets banged up badly, it's likely due to the spine-rub. I'll be seeking graders' notes in any case...hopefully they will be available this time. I should be able to provide grades by the first week of September, if Modern Fast Track can get back to me in 10 business days (I've had GREAT luck with Modern Fast Track so this is a possibility. I didn't want to go Modern...and keep everyone waiting for the next 3 months, ). Either way, I'll have at least a FEW things for sale soon if anyone is interested. haha! I just want ONE 9.9 out of this...to give the whole story a happy ending. I'm pretty pessimistic though. I have to be honest! You guys will be the next to know...right after me! If I find anything amazing from the final box, I will provide another update. PS - I didn't find ANY keepers from the issue 12 box (the all-black issue). Maybe a handful of 9.8s...but I've already got that issue slabbed.

+1

Please don't have them...*gasp*...signed.

Someone finally found one? Holy @$(#%@&%! CONGRATS! Someone is going to end up spending stupid money for that book.

I decided to take the best raw copy of Spawn 12. I then put it side by side against a 9.8 slab of Spawn issue 12. On the very bottom of this stack is the 9.9 slab of Spawn issue 4, which also features a black spine and edges. I'm sorry the pics aren't more detailed, but it was the best I could do with the limited lighting and equipment at my disposal. Can you guys spot the differences between the 9.8 and the 9.9? Now compare those books with my raw copy. I'd say my raw copy is somewhere in-between the quality of the two slabs. Is it good enough for a 9.9? I seriously doubt it. The top pic is the top left hand corner of all three books. The bottom is a pic of the bottom left hand corner.

Going back to today's find - the Spawn issue 12 books. I've posted more pics of defects. Look at the bulge around the staples on some of the books. Would this press out? Now look at the wave at the edge of the comic. Finally, look inside the red box on the bottom picture. Can you see what I describe as a "band of dirt" running along the side? Grrr...Spawn 12 is a rough issue because it is solid black. I think I might have pulled one or two 9.8s from this whole rotten box, which appeared to be in perfect shape from the outside, by the way!

Speaking of staples, I found some problems with the stapes in the second box. Here we have a stack of Spawn #21, which has a relatively low print run for early era Spawn comics and the registry even gives this issue a significant bump in points because of it. It's a white cover, so the spine rub issue isn't as noticeable. I'm not sure what caused the staples to look so ragged. Was it a production issue? Did the shifting, settling, and weight of the books somehow lead to this defect? Check out what's going on in the red circles. Also, notice that I've drawn an arrow to another interesting defect. A dirty, gluey type of material. I practiced scrapping it off with a straightened out paper clip and I was able to remove approximately 50% of it during an experiment with a rougher copy.

The second reason I was disappointed can be clearly seen in the following pictures. RUSTY STAPLES! The tape used by the factory to seal the box was quite poor and had apparently separated from the box. As a result, air and moisture started to creep in. The results are quite evident. BAD BAD BAD news! Not happy with this batch at all. Not all of the comics had rusty staples. That's the funny thing. Some of them were perfectly clean! Nonetheless, it's a good thing I have four boxes left.

UPDATE: Today I cracked open box number three. I was very disappointed for a few reasons. First, the books had shifted considerably. Check out this shot!

Could be a fingerprint, dimple...anything really. I'm not very experienced at grading "trick" covers, but I know the heavier paper stock used by the manufacturers are a lot less susceptible to corner damage or rubbing. The corners of your book look perfect to me, but like I said earlier...there is a lot more to a book than the corners alone. Your feelings about that book are similar to my feelings about my Cable 1...which came back as a 9.8. After staring at it at many angles for what seemed like hours, I finally found the flaw. It was the tiniest little edge "push" that I've ever seen! The corners on that book are textbook perfect. Grading IS subjective, as everyone likes to point out. I think comparing the 9.8 slab with the 9.9 slab...and throwing the raw candidates in between for a good eyeballing...I think that's going to help me a lot. It also helps that I'm fortunate enough to own dozens of 9.9 slabs already...but on the downside none of them have been self-submissions.

Not to change the discussion here to grader notes, but it is worth noting... I don't think you can really get them for 9.8s. I ordered some notes for a Wolvie Limited 1 that I got out of a distributors box...thought it was a 9.9 but it came back a 9.8. No notes available and I never did get my money back. Just reminded me...I need to call about that. I am about to crack open a box of raw Spawn 12s. This particular issue is solid black along all edges... Any flaws should show up really nicely. I can also compare the nice raws I find with a graded 9.8 copy Spawn 12 that I already own! THEN...I can compare those against my mint slab of issue 4, which is also solid black along the edges. This should give me the best possible standard for making final decisions regarding the books that make it and the books that won't. I think that would be more informative than anything else I've done.

Hado...that's literally the only flaw on the book and it looks worse than it is because of the way it was pinched, if that makes any sense. A 9.9 can still have a flaw, and of course that is why 10s exist. My 9.9 of issue 1 has a similar tick. I have other 9.9s that have similar TINY flaws. I think the deal is this...it can only be ONE and it must be minute. That would be my best GUESS of course. I'm learning here. *paging Beachbum!*

The book is going out tomorrow. Modern fast track. Like I said, I just want to establish a reference for my own good. I don't really expect this to come back as a 9.9. The good news is that I have another raw copy of the same issue that is in BETTER condition than the one pictured. I will definitely keep everyone updated on the grade. I will also be cracking open a third box this weekend. I won't go insane with the pics from here on out unless I find something truly interesting or different. Stay tuned!

I'd go so far as to say, in fact, that the corners on the raw book in the photograph are better than those on the 9.9 slab! But the slab has a perfect spine. Very little rub at all. It's clearly the product of an OCD collector who, back in the mid 90s (man how I miss those days!) got a distributors box fresh off the press and put his gloved mits on the fresh cookie! The spine rub has me concerned. The photographs really bring them out. The book "presents" better in person...and when I initially graded the books, I didn't happen to notice it as much. I have a 9.9 mint slab of Spawn 1 that shows some evidence of spine rub, IIRC. I remember being kind of surprised at that. I will have to break it out of the vault later this evening. I'll show you guys pictures. I'm glad some of you are enjoying this insane journey of mine! I am really enjoying the hunt and being able to share it with people who understand makes it VERY enjoyable for me as a collector. Basically, I live in the middle of nowhere and I only have one real-life friend that is a comic nerd, and he isn't an insane collector like I am so... Thanks.

I think the next step will definitely be to send it off for grading. It's the only way to know for sure! I don't expect the book in the picture to get a 9.9. I can say the following: You've seen the pics. The corners on the book are incredible! It's the spine-rub that worries and interests me the most! Details you can't see? Well, the book is FLAT. The book has never been touched by my bare hands. I used protection. It has sat in a sealed distributors box for 18 years! VIRGIN. I am personally going to guess 9.8. I'd rather play it safe. So why is this thread in this forum? Because, while I wait for a grade from the CGC, I want to hear YOUR best guess!

...and finally the lower right hand corner. Once again, pretty identical.

Here are two shots of the upper right hand corner. Appears identical. Both books have razor sharp cuts in this corner.

Here are a few pics of the lower left hand corner. This is the better looking spine corner of the raw book. As you can see, it also seems to be better than the mint book in some ways!

This is a really good question, but I'm almost positive that the spine rubbing you see in the picture is enough to downgrade to a 9.8 or even less. Maybe I'm being too picky? I'm really hoping that some of the veterans will chime in with the secrets of the trade. I mean, the corners on this book are REALLY nice. But the blasted spine rub! It's just too much IMHO.

I think the first thing a blossoming grader must realize is this - there is more to a book than the corners alone! In the early days, I made the mistake of giving sharp corners too much credit. I think many people attempt to grade books without ever taking them out of the bag! There is a back cover! Is there excess glue on the staples? Do minute splits exist at the binding? Any sign whatsoever in topographical variation? In other words, does the cover have even the slightest dent or riveting? I put a comic in the reject pile because it has a divot the size of a pinhead on the cover! It's so hard to put an otherwise perfect book into the "reject" pile, but I think that's what it takes. Look at the graded 9.8 slabs that you own. Can you detect the flaw? LOOK! They are there my friend. You must examine in every sort of light and from every sort of angle...at magnification! This is how insane you have to be...to try to sub your own 9.9s. As you can see from my experiment, it's not even as easy as getting a sealed book from the distributor!!! I've went through a few boxes now with greater luck. I keep returning to my "candidates" only to find flaws. I'm no expert. I'm learning as I go along...and I've learned by making stupid mistakes. I remember my first submission! I thought that all the books I grabbed at my LCBS when I was a kid back in the early 90s were sheer mint because I bought them new, bagged and boarded, and they were UNTOUCHED! Imagine the furor I felt when most of them came back as 9.4 to 9.6! Now imagine how stupid I felt when I peered very carefully at the book, only to see the tiny flaws that knocked them down in grade... and the shock in realizing...they noticed THAT? You mean that tiny FLAKE at the top corner is the only reason my book is a 9.8 instead of a 9.9???

Okay gang, I took some more pictures! What are you seeing? The comic on the bottom is our reference. It is a 9.9 mint slab of Spawn issue #4 contained in a Mylar envelope. The comic on the top is one of the best candidates from one of the boxes. It is contained in a Mylar bag with a fullback. First, I am going to post detailed comparison pics of the upper left-hand corner of the book. Notice how promising the top three pics look! Now notice what a difference is made when I take pics of the same corner from a different angle. You can clearly see the rub marks along the spine of the top comic. The bottom comic is not effected in this manner! That, my friends, is one of the differences between a 9.8 and a 9.9. The really disappointing part of this exercise has been the sheer number of comics in ALMOST GOOD ENOUGH condition! I've found many books with absolute perfect corners (this was honestly a surprise). Those same books, however, simply have too many rub marks along the spine. You should be able to tell what I'm talking about by looking at the photographs below. I shall return later tonight and we will take a look at the other three corners. I hope this helps everyone understand the differences between a great book and a truly exceptional one.

UPDATE: Out of the first box of 200, I've found two copies that are solid 9.9 candidates. I just kept narrowing stacks of books down by quality. In my excitement, I forgot to grab pics of the candidates. I will be sure to take pictures if I come across any additional copies.

Continue to wish me luck please! I still have half a dozen other boxes to go through. I may fare better or worse on some of them. My experiment will hopefully give many collectors an idea of how HARD it is to come by a truly MINT book that will stand up the the tightest standards of judgement. Just think of how many times a comic is handled before it even gets in your hands! The people on the press, the packers, the distributors, the comic shop...time itself. I scored sealed boxes from nearly 2 decades ago that have lain in storage and I'm still having a difficult time finding books that would even come close to meeting the standard. That's why I'm truly blown away when I see mint books that are around or over 20 years old. Now there is a market for perfect books and dealers are more cognizant of their ability to squeeze a premium price from the consumer. Just do a quick eBay search for "CGC 9.9" and you will see that a majority of those books are from the last several years (post slab craze). A 9.9 book that is older than your teenage kid? Now THAT is a true rarity.

In the end I'd say mainly VF to NM books. Maybe a few dozen 9.8 candidates..just 8 or 9 that might come close to 9.9 and I am likely going to narrow that down to just 2 or maybe 3 that really stood out as "wow" comics...even then it's going to be a moonshot, but the copies I pulled look at least as good as 1 or 2 of the dozen or so 9.9 slabs that I already own.