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There is a big difference between a general consensus of what is considered valuable art and simple "artistic expression" which could be applied to just about anything. Beanie babies are plush toys. Could they be considered a form of artistic expression? Sure, because someone had to design it. However, that's stretching the boundaries of what is generally considered art. I could take a piece of canvas, cr4p on it, swirl it around with a stick, let it dry, and place it on my wall. Is it art? In the broadest sense of the word, yes it is. Now comes the issue of value. I can understand warning others with good intentions, but these flawed doom and gloom arguments have been around for a long time. What they fail to keep in mind is the constant influx of new movies (among other things) that rake in viewers and thus increase demand for comics. Prices don't climb without reason. That being said, there's always the possibility that a crash could happen, but unless it's another economic meltdown, the chances for that occurring are extremely slim in the current market environment. There are always small corrections, but the trend is up. Iron Man #512: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Iron-Man-512-VENOM-Variant-CGC-9-8-Rare-HTF-Comic-Highest-Grade-On-Census-/252569894023?hash=item3ace56bc87:g:qA8AAOSwOyJX8~VM Transformers Universe #1: http://www.ebay.com/itm/401119507030 On the other hand, public sales can be shilled and private sales can be verified. However, I guess I understand the issue regarding private sales in order to simplify the list (even though it does somewhat impede tracking of current realized prices). I personally like to hear what a book I'm interested in sold for privately. It can always be taken with a grain of salt.

Well said. Also, beanie babies are not art. As for the list, I'm surprised that Transformers Universe #1 Botcon Unicron variant isn't listed... it sold for over 1K at auction last year. I sold my copy for roughly $2,900 (if applying Ebay pricing) a few months back. Iron Man #512 Venom variant in 9.8 went for around 2K on Ebay three months ago.

Didn't a #667 9.8 sell for 9k recently?

This nut: lrogers11504 He messaged me and had a problem with the way I priced a rare variant ("his issue," as he put it). Kept insulting me even though I tried to have a normal discussion with him throughout several messages. It got to the point where I asked him to stop messaging me, but had to block him for that to happen. Normally I'd just consider it amusing, block the guy, and move on, but he attacked my integrity; that's where I draw the line. Unfortunately, I suspect that he's a member of this forum, and have a pretty good idea of who it might be.

There's a 9.8 SS listed on Ebay now. That is my 9.8 SS - will sell here on the boards at a better price Apparently, recent 9.8 sales have been over $2K, so your price seems about right. (I actually turned down two $1000 offers for my raw copy.) http://comicbookinvest.com/2016/09/02/hot-10-comics-54/ Considering the type of book it is, and that the only one, public high dollar sale of the book is that Bob Kane signed copy from last week, and how fickle the variant market can be (especially with multiple copies of multiple versions of the book hitting the market at once), there's no way in hell I would be turning down those offers (if I was a seller). -J. It wasn't signed by Bob Kane. Nonetheless, if we were having this conversation a few weeks ago when the book was selling for around $500, I suspect that you'd be saying the same thing. I turned down the offers because there's far more demand than supply for this book. Keeping in mind that prices continue to increase with private sales, I don't see that changing anytime soon. Yes I meant Jerry Robinson. And there have been enough public sales to get a good handle on the FMV of the book. No offense, but I take reports of all these blockbuster private sales from people with multiple copies to sell with a grain of salt, especially when there is such a large disparity between those and the public sales that everyone can see. -J. Fair enough. The prices I mentioned, though, are due to research, mostly by contacting sellers of copies in listings that were ended early, or from buyers that contacted me after purchasing other copies. The rest is from sites like the one I linked to above. Anyone can do the same to verify the info to get a more accurate account of FMV.

There's a 9.8 SS listed on Ebay now. That is my 9.8 SS - will sell here on the boards at a better price Apparently, recent 9.8 sales have been over $2K, so your price seems about right. (I actually turned down two $1000 offers for my raw copy.) http://comicbookinvest.com/2016/09/02/hot-10-comics-54/ Considering the type of book it is, and that the only one, public high dollar sale of the book is that Bob Kane signed copy from last week, and how fickle the variant market can be (especially with multiple copies of multiple versions of the book hitting the market at once), there's no way in hell I would be turning down those offers (if I was a seller). -J. It wasn't signed by Bob Kane. Nonetheless, if we were having this conversation a few weeks ago when the book was selling for around $500, I suspect that you'd be saying the same thing. I turned down the offers because there's far more demand than supply for this book. Keeping in mind that prices continue to increase with private sales, I don't see that changing anytime soon.

There's a 9.8 SS listed on Ebay now. That is my 9.8 SS - will sell here on the boards at a better price Apparently, recent 9.8 sales have been over $2K, so your price seems about right. (I actually turned down two $1000 offers for my raw copy.) http://comicbookinvest.com/2016/09/02/hot-10-comics-54/

There's a 9.8 SS listed on Ebay now. Evidently the image was used for the reprint compilations in multiple different countries, not just France. Those other languages are starting to come to market now as well. I think I'm glad I held off from buying at those inflated prices. -J. I've seen those. They are different books; even the coloring is a bit off. To my knowledge, only the French variants have the virgin cover and 50/50 effect (not sure what the production term for that is). Perhaps that's why they are in demand, and the other issues not so much? Even so, they are climbing in price as well. But, to each his own. Ultimately, the market will decide value, as it has been doing. Oh, and the 9.9 SS sold. I don't think people were aware that the image was used in other countries until the other renditions started showing up. At least I didn't.... 8 of the 31 currently slabbed copies are 9.9's. Did that SS copy sell off eBay privately too ? -J. I found the German versions years ago, so I'm guessing others have as well when doing a search for the artwork. One is a hardcover book, if I recall correctly. Non are virgin variants. They didn't interest me since the French variant looks so much nicer, imho. Yes. This now makes three 9.9's (that I know of) that have changed hands within a few short weeks, with each successive sale being more expensive than the last.

There's a 9.8 SS listed on Ebay now. Evidently the image was used for the reprint compilations in multiple different countries, not just France. Those other languages are starting to come to market now as well. I think I'm glad I held off from buying at those inflated prices. -J. I've seen those. They are different books; even the coloring is a bit off. To my knowledge, only the French variants have the virgin cover and 50/50 effect (not sure what the production term for that is). Perhaps that's why they are in demand, and the other issues not so much? Even so, they are climbing in price as well. But, to each his own. Ultimately, the market will decide value, as it has been doing. Oh, and the 9.9 SS sold.

There's a 9.8 SS listed on Ebay now.

Looks like there's even more reason for a NTT #2 club now. I just secured a CGC 9.8 WP copy for myself before prices start climbing even more. Shouldn't this be in the bronze section, though?

Over $1500 already.

For these variants print runs matter because they create the bulk of the demand. For Hulk #181 the demand is over what is on the inside. It's a big difference. When only the cover matters demand hangs by a very thin thread. By that logic, Hulk #180 would be the more valuable and sought-after book. This is not the case. Collectors prefer #181 because of... the cover. (Just throwing this out there, although I do see the point you're trying to make.) Also, many of these debates miss the fact that the hobby has grown into collectors purchasing many, many books purely for the cover artwork. It's art; not so different from buying a rare painting at this point. And the better the story behind it, the more it's worth. Im a cover collector Same here. I'm a cover collector too. I also prefer a hulk 181 over 180. It only makes sense as a lot of card collectors are back in the fold. That I don't understand, and I collect Detective comics from GA to Modern, Pre Code Horror, and keys/classic covers. The expensive variant business, eh. To each their own, but I cap at like 100.00 on moderns. All my copper and modern keys are sold to buy PCH. Here's an opinion written in a way that I can respect.

For these variants print runs matter because they create the bulk of the demand. For Hulk #181 the demand is over what is on the inside. It's a big difference. When only the cover matters demand hangs by a very thin thread. By that logic, Hulk #180 would be the more valuable and sought-after book. This is not the case. Collectors prefer #181 because of... the cover. (Just throwing this out there, although I do see the point you're trying to make.) Also, many of these debates miss the fact that the hobby has grown into collectors purchasing many, many books purely for the cover artwork. It's art; not so different from buying a rare painting at this point. And the better the story behind it, the more it's worth. Bull:censored:. Prove it. Hulk 180 is a Hulk/Wendigo story that has Wolverine in one panel that only exists to promote 181. Hulk 181 is a Wolverine/Hulk/Wendigo story. Why so confrontational? I was referring to the "first appearance" debate between #180 and #181. Frankly, I don't need to "prove" anything; the books do that themselves. #180 is the first appearance of Wolverine. That shouldn't be up for debate. #181 is his first cover, he is the focus of the story, and did I mention the awesome cover? First appearance. NOT "first story of xxxx character." I love this, but you are speaking to wrong audience. The current market isn't reading comics anymore. Someone will come in and tell me they are, but they aren't a large majority anymore and I would argue its a thin majority in this market at best. This board is perfect example now. Until the growing minority bleeds out of the hobby again its not going to return to some sort of balance. I think that's a vague as I can make it without pointing fingers directly. The current market isn't reading comics anymore. Snicker... Okee Dokee. Saturday in the shop tpb's & hc's were 60% of our monster day. Omega Men tpb got such a BJ from the internet this week it caused a stampede as most shops didn't order... CGC fellows are a cult sect, NOT representative of the average LCS clientele. Comics are main street America right now. Civilians are interested, Lapsed fans are returning, & Wednesday Warriors have a ton of choices. I'll chime in and say that the (huge) segment of the market buying slabs, expensive back issues, and variants do not do so to read them. That's what trade paperbacks are for.

For these variants print runs matter because they create the bulk of the demand. For Hulk #181 the demand is over what is on the inside. It's a big difference. When only the cover matters demand hangs by a very thin thread. By that logic, Hulk #180 would be the more valuable and sought-after book. This is not the case. Collectors prefer #181 because of... the cover. (Just throwing this out there, although I do see the point you're trying to make.) Also, many of these debates miss the fact that the hobby has grown into collectors purchasing many, many books purely for the cover artwork. It's art; not so different from buying a rare painting at this point. And the better the story behind it, the more it's worth. Im a cover collector Same here.

For these variants print runs matter because they create the bulk of the demand. For Hulk #181 the demand is over what is on the inside. It's a big difference. When only the cover matters demand hangs by a very thin thread. By that logic, Hulk #180 would be the more valuable and sought-after book. This is not the case. Collectors prefer #181 because of... the cover. (Just throwing this out there, although I do see the point you're trying to make.) Also, many of these debates miss the fact that the hobby has grown into collectors purchasing many, many books purely for the cover artwork. It's art; not so different from buying a rare painting at this point. And the better the story behind it, the more it's worth.

Possibly over $2k...... Too many hitting the market at once now. The "9.6", the yellow label and the fact that it is foreign will keep some buyers away. A boardie didn't sell a 9.8 for $1200. I'm going to say $500-$600. -J. I'll have to respectfully disagree. Demand is very high for this book (still rising, it seems), and I've recently sold raw copies for more. Two recent 9.9 blue label sales have been between $2000 - $3000, and the 9.8 SS that you mentioned sold not far off the mark weeks ago. As Deadleg said, a 9.9 SS is listed for $5000. Then, there's the cover art (I don't think anyone buys this book to read it). But, stranger things have happened. We'll just have to wait and see what the final price will be. I see one actually closed public sale for a "high grade" copy at $455 (still a good amount) last week on eBay. But a signature on the book kind of defeats the purpose and appeal of the virgin cover IMO. -J. That was actually the lowest price from recent transactions (there were a few listings that turned into private sales). The signature/virgin cover issue is all personal preference, just like the signature itself. By the way... that's one hell of a signature you have. Nice collection!

Possibly over $2k...... Too many hitting the market at once now. The "9.6", the yellow label and the fact that it is foreign will keep some buyers away. A boardie didn't sell a 9.8 for $1200. I'm going to say $500-$600. -J. I'll have to respectfully disagree. Demand is very high for this book (still rising, it seems), and I've recently sold raw copies for more. Two recent 9.9 blue label sales have been between $2000 - $3000, and the 9.8 SS that you mentioned sold not far off the mark weeks ago. As Deadleg said, a 9.9 SS is listed for $5000. Then, there's the cover art (I don't think anyone buys this book to read it). But, stranger things have happened. We'll just have to wait and see what the final price will be.

Whoa, very nice!

Before I leave, I just want to say good post, and I agree with most of what you said. However, certain aspects of the hobby do change based on demand. Look at Preacher #1 and Preacher Preview. Malibu Sun #13 is obvious. How about cameo appearances? 2nd, 3rd prints fetching more than 1st prints these days (Hulk #377). This hobby (and basically everything else) is ever-changing, so you can't say with 100% certainty that the niche market for ad appearances is where it will forever remain. Take care.

Who's policing anything? Just stating my opinion. You're still free to sling your BS. I'm still free to call you out on it. Ain't nobody here in handcuffs. a) Who's comparing it? b) No one's saying 'collecting' it is wrong. Are you listening? c) Marvel, Valiant, and DC take their hits daily for the nonsense they've tried to pass off as collectible. d) a sinner pointing at the devil and saying 'See! He does it!" isn't making a good case for himself. Collect it all you want. Have fun with it. Just know that when you try as hard as you do to convince people it's more valuable than it really is, someone's going to call you out on it. Except that while others have been trying to hold a civil conversation, you've been doing the opposite and seem to be taking this as a personal affront (no amount of backpedalling will change that). The opposite? Disagreeing is the opposite of agreeing. But saying I've been the opposite of uncivil is more hyperbole. You think THAT was uncivil? Man, you haven't seen anything around these parts. And I do feel sorry for the people that pay silly prices for this stuff, because it's not worth it. That's not uncivil, its sensible. It's uncivil to point out trickery and manipulation and dishonesty? Oh no, I realize it IS my opinion and it clashes with a SMALL handful of other people's opinion's, who are trying very hard to make people see it their way, so they can make money. See now THIS is uncivil. Referring to this 'debate' in quotation marks, as if to say, it's not worthy because you're oh so right (even though that's just YOUR opinion) and it's 'long overdue' as if MY opinion is simply getting in the way of your desire to make dum dums believe your line of BS. Aided by those with the books coming in here and trying to say the junk is valuable. Oh it did. It proves how desperate some of you are to squelch my revolution. And the reason your previous post was ignored is because it is MY opinion that YOUR opinion is in the minority. The vast majority of people on this site could care less about Spawn #1 or any of his advertising appearances and see it all as just a bunch of people tricking each other into buying stuff that has absolute ZERO long term value. You want to collect and spend that kind of money. HAVE AT IT. Just don't try and say no one tried to tell you it was a bad idea as an investment. And to repeat my civil declaration: "Just know that when you try as hard as you do to convince people it's more valuable than it really is, someone's going to call you out on it." Vive la vérité ! PS. The smart Spawn people are buying it CHEAP right now and holding out for a movie. Not even worth a response. Judging from the way you've decided to interpret my post, it's obvious now that you're just someone who likes the sound of his own voice and thrives on conflict, so it's a waste of time. But you know what, I'll correct a few of your incorrect assumptions anyway before moving on (for peace of mind): That's actually funny. I said that you were being uncivil... not sure what you're trying to twist it into now. You missed the point entirely. I only indicated where the civil discussion started to degenerate. Not at all. But you seem intent on ignoring sound reasoning. If you are aware that your stance is an opinion, then you should keep it civil and argue with facts and logic, not insults. Wrong. I put "debate" in quotes because of how much it's degenerated. This recent post of yours only supports my statement. Thanks for making my point. Less typing! Oh please, enough of this already. You make it sound like anything said here is viewed as true and holy. Yes, these boards do have an influence, but droves of people don't go out and start buying copies just because one or two people say so. People have brains; they either agree or disagree. Therefore, THE MARKET DECIDES. I presented sound reasons which you choose to ignore; that's your problem. At this point, YOU'RE pushing your opinion on others. You should either take off the blinders and be more civil, or just stop talking. (Harsh but true, sorry.) Made me laugh again. Funny guy! Translation of what you wrote: I ignored your sound arguments because they interfere with my opinion, so it's better not to address them rather than look like a fool. (Fool is better than tool, btw.) I speak for almost everyone on these boards when I say that we couldn't care less about Spawn #1 or any of his appearances. We believe that these sellers are trying to trick poor, unsuspecting people who can't think for themselves into showing interest in an earlier appearance to rake in the dough. I must save them from themselves! Oh, and apparently in your mind, no one buys something just to add it to a collection, rather than for investment purposes. I'm not trying to force my opinion on others. Again, I provided logical reasons as to why there could be interest in the book. You ignored them and decided to keep spewing the same thing over and over. Had you presented a sound counter-argument in a civil manner, this would be an entirely different conversation (one which I would've preferred.) Unfortunately, you favor these types. People were saying that ten years ago as well. Or was it closer to twenty? Well, time to go back to being a lurker. I'd say no hard feelings, but something tells me that it would fall on deaf ears.

Who's policing anything? Just stating my opinion. You're still free to sling your BS. I'm still free to call you out on it. Ain't nobody here in handcuffs. a) Who's comparing it? b) No one's saying 'collecting' it is wrong. Are you listening? c) Marvel, Valiant, and DC take their hits daily for the nonsense they've tried to pass off as collectible. d) a sinner pointing at the devil and saying 'See! He does it!" isn't making a good case for himself. Collect it all you want. Have fun with it. Just know that when you try as hard as you do to convince people it's more valuable than it really is, someone's going to call you out on it. Except that while others have been trying to hold a civil conversation, you've been doing the opposite and seem to be taking this as a personal affront (no amount of backpedalling will change that). This post of yours started the downhill descent of this discussion: "I feel sorry for the people that don't know any better that you guys hope to swindle." And when you say this: "Just know that when you try as hard as you do to convince people it's more valuable than it really is, someone's going to call you out on it." ...you seem to forget that this is also just your opinion. Now, in the interest of ending this "debate" (which is long overdue), I'll make this simple since my previous post was conveniently ignored. Here are a few key points to consider: Spawn #1 - First appearance of Spawn in story. Malibu Sun #13 - (Was) the first appearance of Spawn in actual comic book format. Rust #1 - First appearance of Spawn in a comic book. Previews #3 - First appearance of Spawn outside of a comic book (not counting the trading card that I've heard mention of). There is a place for each of these appearances in a collection, depending on personal preference. (A bit less for Malibu Sun #13, though, now that Rust #1 was discovered. But, it still has the cover going for it.) Spawn #1 can be found anywhere, and in high grade. Naturally, fans will seek out an appearance that predates Spawn #1, particularly if it's not as common. This isn't anything new and it's been done before with other titles/characters. In the end, the market will decide. Whether this post will have any positive impact, I don't know. Hopefully it will.

wouldn't there have been something like previews back then? what would comic shop owners be basing their ordering on 2 or 3 months before this -- just the title of the book and mcfarlane being on it (probably enough back then)? presumably spawn appeared in some sort of solicitation in print form before then. calling these things a cameo or whatever is nuts. if you want to collect first advertising apps, that's fine, but call it what it is. and i love the other listing "significantly devalues malibu sun 13" This Spawn Cover came out 1 month before Rust 1 Here's my Spawn list: Previews issue: first appearance and cover ( March 1992 ) Rust 1a,1b: Second appearance depending on what other Adventure comics are discovered ( April 1992 ) Malibu Sun 13: Third appearance, Second Cover, first appearance in a comic book publication ( May 1992 ) Spawn 1: Third cover, first appearance in a narrative. Then there's Crusade Comics Spawn 1 which has a released date of 1992 for a convention that happened in August? I am not sure what the actual publication date is but it could predate all of the above. Either way it is definitely the first appearance of Sam & Twitch. So if we just care about an image outside the story why is anyone even talking about rust 1 or even malibu sun 1? there he is in previews, first non-comic/advertising appearance. end of story. move on. slap a $50 price tag on it. $150 if spawn becomes relevant again. tah dah! I think the appeal is that Rust #1 is Spawn's first appearance in an actual comic book. Malibu Sun #13 used to fill that slot because it had the dimensions of a comic book, even though it was only a preview book. Personally, I don't really care about Spawn's ad in Previews, or if it turns out that he appeared earlier in a newspaper ad somewhere. First appearance in a comic only! One may say that I could be biased since I have a few copies of Rust #1, but I was also making a very similar argument for Malibu Sun #13 months ago (without owning a copy). But, to each his own.

Now that's just mean... You can tell he likes posing for the camera, though.

The fading on the left half of the book sort of complements the cover art...