lightninglad

I'm in the same boat, LCS sold out an all online retailers sold out, may have to just bite the bullet on this one.

I love that series! I buy those issues any time I can find them cheap. Especially NM copies of #1. Sets are an easy $20 sell.

8.5, beautiful copy!

I think comic fans will always collect runs. I'm currently downsizing my collection to focus on finishing my Uncanny X-Men run.

Does anyone know if this is connected to the Kong: King of Skull Island series that was published by Markosia?

TWD came out in 2003 a year before Lost did. I think that's the largest part of this divide. Those of us that have been reading and loving the series WAY before there was even a hint of a TV show understand that while the show has brought in more reader and caused a price spike, it was the story itself that drove it to be $300-400 raw book prior to any show. Even without a TV show it would be significant book today. Also, this isn't anything like X-Files comics which were based upon a show, not the actual source material. With the print run and cult following the book will never crash. I think it will hold up as THE key book of the time, but how much that will translate to value I'm not sure. I worry that the phenomenon as whole will end up more Star Trek then Star Wars. At this point it's entrenched enough to last a long time, but without the ability to market to a younger audience the fans will simply continue to age.

I like Leto, but I wouldn't want to have to follow Ledger's footsteps. It's a tough act to follow.

My LCS received 6 copies yesterday and I was looking for the best 2. I noticed the strange dents on the backside of the cover too. I thought the employee just had long fingernails . They should press out though Also, I showed up a few hours after the opening and asked how was the title moving. I was told I was the first to buy the book and they had only ordered those 6 copies My LCS had six copies and they were all defected to various degrees. A couple had real nasty creases all the way across the front cover. They were so bad I almost didn't buy one. Ended up picking out the best of the bunch though so I could read it.

Looks interesting! I wonder what type of print run a series like that had?

I appreciate your time and thoughts but on that note I'll be exiting the discussion.

Based on your previous comments, I assumed that we agreed there were fewer newsstand copies by the mid 80's. We don't know the exact moment the pendulum swung in favor of direct market but based on your own comments newsstand copies were less than a third of the market by 1988. So maybe at the very least we can all agree that from 1988-forward newsstand comics are rarer than their direct market counterparts.

So then you do agree that from 1984-up newsstand copies ARE rarer than their direct market counterparts? So we're all agreed that there are fewer newsstand copies from 1984-forward. Therefore they're rarer than their direct market counterparts. This is a hobby where bragging rights often matter. In recent years we've seen that print runs matter. Putting those two things together, many collectors are starting to seek out newsstand copies because as we've all agreed upon...... they're not as plentiful. I've already started seeing a slight price difference in the books I sell. Put the same two books up for sale in the same condition, the newsstand sells quicker and slightly higher. It's not a huge difference at the moment but the market is gradually moving that direction. I'm not sure why we're arguing that point. It seems evident.

So then you do agree that from 1984-up newsstand copies ARE rarer than their direct market counterparts?

Do you have a source for these numbers? Or is this just your speculation on the newsstand/direct market distrubution?

+1 How many of these could of been produced? 1000?

That would be false

Season 4 premiere was 16 million but if I understand correctly they add one weeks DVR viewing to live viewership to calculate total viewers which brought the total to 19.9 for the premiere. This was according to Entertainment Weekly

Arrow I forget, which week was it that Arrow had 20 million viewers? It's not at the insane levels as TWD, but it's still good to see another comic TV series having some success with mainstream viewers. Agreed (thumbs u

Arrow I forget, which week was it that Arrow had 20 million viewers?

Isn't 1992 the start of the modern age?

So, #18 is the second appearance. (thumbs u Actually, is that even true? Didn't all 4 of the Superman titles that month have a "cameo" of Doomsday on the very back page? -slym That's correct. MoS #18 would be his fifth appearance. In honor of that, they had five printings.

Definitely "isn't much of a first appearance" . . . Show me an issue other than #18 where Doomsday looks like that cover image? I sometimes wonder if you guys even know what Doomsday looks like

Did the market suddenly decide they prefer that to #18? Or are the market buyers too dumb to know the difference. Apparently so. I have a few 18's and actually pulled a few 17's the other day out of my LCS's dollar bins. Am I missing something? :shrug: From day one MoS #17 has always been the more valuable book due to its much lower print run. Nothing has really changed. You can check the recent debates on the issue: http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=6818071#Post6818071 Yes. We all participated in that debate. Perhaps you should take a moment and actually read the the thread. I've read it in it's entirety and while it certainly addresses what is a cameo and what is a full appearance it does not address why #17 sells for more money then 18 and has for some time So, I'll re-post what i wrote in the Coppers Heating up discussion : "Everybody knew a big story was starting with MoS 18, I'm sure retailers ordered accordingly, but the cameo books completely took people by surprise. When people finally caught on to who it was in those cameos shots, those books quickly disappeared, with MoS 17 being the one highly sought after. It immediately jumped to be $15-$20 book. I can't give you the numbers, but you could find tons of MoS 18's but MoS 17's were very hard to come by. IMO MoS 17 from the very start has always been the more valuable book. I know we like to place rules on these types of things but I think each case is unique. In this case, the cameo is harder to find. Plus MoS 18 isn't really much of a first appearance. He's hidden in a suit the entire issue. If you were to show the average person who knew what Doomsday looks like, but knew nothing about comics, the cover to MoS 18 they'd say... "That's not Doomsday!" So call the issues whatever you like but at the end of day I think 17 is and always will be the more valuable of the two, though 18 will close the gap some. There is room for both to be worth owning. It doesn't have to be a war of one against the other. \:\) I have Diamond sales rankings but no print run numbers: September 1992 MoS 17 was #97 on their sales chart. All Superman titles were low. Adventures didn't even make top 100. October 1992 MoS 18 moves up to #77. November 1992 MoS 19 jumps way up to #19 It's not quite as big of a difference between 17 and 18 as I would of thought, but def shows 17 was a lower print run. I also wonder if more newsstand copies of 18 survived. MoS 17's may have been pulled by the time people caught on to the whole Superman's being killed thing." It doesn't definitely show a lower print run. I just picked a book at random and came up with this. Daredevil 32 was #73 on comichron October sales with 34,957 copies Daredevil 33 was #62 on comichron November sales with 32,966 copies. Placement on the chart is not necessarily a good guesstimator for actual sales. The #19 I think is a more likely to be a valid measuring point. The market has proven that #17 has a lower print run. We all agree that #17 is a cameo, a la Hulk 180, Amazing 298 299, X-Factor 5 ,etc. Why then does #17 routinely sell for as much or more than #18 if not for the fact the it's in shorter supply The Death of Superman is one of the story-lines that really got me into collecting comics as a kid. I've collected these issues for 20 years and 17 has always been much harder to find. For example this past year I've check every major online retailer multiple times a week trying to find copies of 17 and 18 on the cheap. As recent as the last few weeks MCS has had copies of 18 in NM for $5 and VF for $4. Mile High as had then for less than $10. CCL used to have scores of #18 for well under cover price. You know how many copies of 17 I've find cheap during that time? Zero. You rarely find it for sale at all other than Ebay. I think the market speaks for itself. But I guess time will tell. Not trying to argue. Both issues are close to my heart.

For what it's worth, Wizard 21 (May 1993) It's simply supply and demand. I'd agree that more people may end up wanting MoS #18 but fact that there are fewer issues of #17 means that collectors who want both issues will keep #17's price as high or higher than #18.

Did the market suddenly decide they prefer that to #18? Or are the market buyers too dumb to know the difference. Apparently so. I have a few 18's and actually pulled a few 17's the other day out of my LCS's dollar bins. Am I missing something? :shrug: From day one MoS #17 has always been the more valuable book due to its much lower print run. Nothing has really changed. You can check the recent debates on the issue: http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=6818071#Post6818071 Yes. We all participated in that debate. Perhaps you should take a moment and actually read the the thread. I've read it in it's entirety and while it certainly addresses what is a cameo and what is a full appearance it does not address why #17 sells for more money then 18 and has for some time So, I'll re-post what i wrote in the Coppers Heating up discussion : "Everybody knew a big story was starting with MoS 18, I'm sure retailers ordered accordingly, but the cameo books completely took people by surprise. When people finally caught on to who it was in those cameos shots, those books quickly disappeared, with MoS 17 being the one highly sought after. It immediately jumped to be $15-$20 book. I can't give you the numbers, but you could find tons of MoS 18's but MoS 17's were very hard to come by. IMO MoS 17 from the very start has always been the more valuable book. I know we like to place rules on these types of things but I think each case is unique. In this case, the cameo is harder to find. Plus MoS 18 isn't really much of a first appearance. He's hidden in a suit the entire issue. If you were to show the average person who knew what Doomsday looks like, but knew nothing about comics, the cover to MoS 18 they'd say... "That's not Doomsday!" So call the issues whatever you like but at the end of day I think 17 is and always will be the more valuable of the two, though 18 will close the gap some. There is room for both to be worth owning. It doesn't have to be a war of one against the other. \:\) I have Diamond sales rankings but no print run numbers: September 1992 MoS 17 was #97 on their sales chart. All Superman titles were low. Adventures didn't even make top 100. October 1992 MoS 18 moves up to #77. November 1992 MoS 19 jumps way up to #19 It's not quite as big of a difference between 17 and 18 as I would of thought, but def shows 17 was a lower print run. I also wonder if more newsstand copies of 18 survived. MoS 17's may have been pulled by the time people caught on to the whole Superman's being killed thing."