Robert Doggett

On 9/29/2022 at 1:59 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Oh, come on, dude. Don't suggest that we're shills just because we agree with one of CGC's SOP.

You wouldn't be keen on presenting such a question if you paid attention to the threads detailing CGC's largest disasters in 2022.

I may have went too far with that question.  It's not that I haven't paid attention, I haven't read this thread you're referring to.  I didn't even know one existed.  I am only addressing the issue that I see right in front of me.  

On 9/29/2022 at 12:30 PM, Tony S said:

Count me among the group that believes grading notes are largely useless. I've been sending in books to CGC since the beginning - and over the years have come to the opinion people see them as FAR more useful than they really are. Perhaps the one thing collectors/CGC customers need to understand is this:  The grading notes are not nor ever have been an exhaustive  list of every single defect. Instead they represent simply what the graders took the time to write down. I've seen countless examples of books that the reason it graded 8.0 is  small color breaking corner crease - and that's not even in the notes. Instead the notes are "light spine stresses" or "light bends to cover". Which have practically become the cut and paste of "it's not NM and and I have to give a reason why so here you go." 

The only grading notes that are useful are the ones that mention defects you can no longer see as a result of the book being encapsulated. That way you don't break a book out to regrade only to discover a light stain on the front cover only visible from the inside of the cover. 

The G.I. Joe is most likely a mistake. It is so far off that the grade was probably intended for a different copy and it just got the wrong label. It's why CGC wants the book back to regrade.  The Strange Tales more likely a reflection of really inconsistent grading right now.  For TAT's to have improved like they have on Moderns and Economy if fast tracked, either there a LOT of new graders or people are being pushed to grade much faster. Maybe both.  What is...ironic.... to me is that IMHO CGC is way, way strict on  NM and better grades. I have 9.4's from a decade ago that don't look as nice - to me anyway - as 8.5's and 9.0's I have been seeing the last six months.  You are a new grader. You want a reputation of being too loose or too strict?  So the occasional book that comes through noticeably over graded stands out. 

Agreeing to disagree is cool with me as well  

Thanks for your opinion on grader notes as you see it, Tony.  I work a 9-5 so I have a hard time with laziness in the workplace.  If I put forth a haphazard effort while doing my job like (in a round about way) you're suggesting the graders are doing, I'm looking for another one pretty quick.  But I digress, we are getting off the original subject of the matter, though.  

My concern is more about the inconsistencies in grading lately and lack of quality control.  How are these books leaving their warehouse when they are clearly incorrect?  I'm just proposing they tighten up the ship a little from within the company to prevent these books from leaving.  CGC definitely wants the book back because it's the right thing to do. Can you imagine them telling me to resubmit it and we'll be sure to get the grading right next time?   The problem wasn't if they were going to fix it, rather it has to be fixed to begin with.  It's happening too often lately.

On 9/29/2022 at 11:44 AM, Zoinks said:

Because when they first opened they said "this is the way we're doing it and if you don't like it, don't use us". From Day One they never promised graders' notes and they've stuck by it. Graders' notes are a courtesy.

From day one, they probably promised integrity in the system they put together but I see that fell by the wayside as well.  

Do you and Cap work for CGC as graders?  Why would you be so adamant not to get grader notes on books you submit?

On 9/29/2022 at 11:33 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

I'm not in the minority, but, here's the why: Consumers are not paying CGC to teach them how to grade.

Grader notes have never been all-encompassing, and they shouldn't be.

Good. That's why CGC exists, to grade comic books when the consumer doesn't know how to grade, to detect restoration when the consumer doesn't know how to detect, etc.

So you're saying since those two books were graded 9.6, that's what they are?  Because "that's why CGC exists, to grade comic books when the consumer doesn't know how to grade"?  This is getting more and more common coming from CGC.  These books came from one customer over the span of a couple of months.  One person, not all of CGC submissions.  Wouldn't you like to see the grader notes on these two books?  I sure as hell would!

I'm not going to argue the point with you.  I am going to agree to disagree with you on this.  

On 9/28/2022 at 8:37 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

You have a lot of valid concerns, but this is a "no" from me dawg.

If a book is getting graded, why shouldn't CGC be held accountable and list the reasons the book got the grade it got.  I respect your opinion, but I believe it's the minority.  

The notes should be put in the data base so 1) the senior grader will see what the unskilled grader found and 2) to put in the grader notes online.

Otherwise, you get a specific grade with no reasoning behind it and people left scratching their heads as to how a book got the grade.  Grader notes diffuse a lot of anguish when something comes back unexpectedly low.  Something inside the book could have prevented the higher grade but without the grader notes, nobody will ever know.  Otherwise, what's preventing them from slapping a grade on a book and moving on to the next just to move the process along quicker?  Grader notes will indicate that someone took the time to at least look at the book.

On 9/28/2022 at 3:34 PM, namisgr said:

I bet there's unanimity on this.

It makes me suspect that, rather than the comic being graded sloppily, it was encapsulated and labeled sloppily, and was either sealed with the wrong grade on the label, or mixed up/switched out for another copy that was truly high grade.

One wonders if there might not be shenanigans going on with the encapsulation/labeling crew.  We've seen multiple examples of these massive mis-grades lately - are the high grades being substituted by lower grade examples in an unscrupulous practice, like PGX was caught doing years ago?  I'm not accusing anybody of anything, but think the company should certainly look into the possibility.  What other plausible explanation is there for slabs leaving the CGC facility with 9.6 and 9.8 labels encapsulated with comics plainly in the VF- to VF/NM grade range?

The fact is that this is happening, regardless.  You're right, there could be someone swapping out books, but GI Joe?  I can see a key book but...   Upper management should be on the floor observing what is going on with the books or put a "spy" in the works (at encapsulating) like "Undercover Boss" to see when or where this is taking place?  Is it the graders?  If so, the encapsulating team should have the power to turn the book into their manager for an investigation.  Find out who's responsible for it and talk to that person.  Two talks and you're fired.  'Nuf said!

On 9/28/2022 at 10:37 AM, MAR1979 said:

  

At a perceived slightly below FMV price on some social media platform w/blurry cell phone pics, with copy that states "It's a Newsstand Baby" - only accepting a non-refundable payment method it will sell to some "buy the label" person. Never underestimate the vast supply of both rubes and unethical comic book sellers.

Trust me, the owner doesn’t need money and, believe it or not, is a pretty nice guy.  He hasn’t raised any red flags with me.  I don’t think he’d stoop to that level.  I understand people do think like that, though.  

On 9/27/2022 at 10:56 PM, MAR1979 said:

owner and they refused to resubmit it due to principal.

Please explain what that principal is?  The only one I can think of they lack morals and ethics and intend on selling it around FMV for a 9.6 newsstand via venue in which no returns are accepted. 

But yeah I agree CGC Q/C is pretty much non-existent and as long as they inundated with business that will not change.  Truly strong competition with associated perception is the only way things will change but sadly none exists.

 

 

Not for me to say.  And he’d be hard pressed to find a buyer for the book that’ll pay 9.6 prices.

I just want someone in the ranks step up and take charge of the situation.  Someone should be embarrassed with the quality of CGC’s work that has a say in day to day operations.

On 9/27/2022 at 8:16 PM, shadroch said:

Best of luck on your crusade. 

Thanks.  Probably gonna land on deaf ears but it definitely can’t hurt anything.

On 9/27/2022 at 8:01 PM, thehumantorch said:

Well Robert, I can't see how either of the books you've posted graded out 9.6.  They're at a glance lower grade.

I’m not expecting things to change but am hopeful the right people at CGC see this and realize change needs to happen.

I don’t have a beef with CGC at all but I’m not going to defend them when they let things like this happen way too frequently anymore.

On 9/14/2022 at 12:51 AM, Monstertruck97 said:

I am unsure why you put a "!" after "misdirected sarcasm". I was giving you an honest answer as I have been in the sports autograph business fulltime in a multitude of occupations and that's my area of expertise, 36 years now. 

In saying that, Tiger Woods stopped signing golf balls in college becauae he didn't like the way they looked and those signatures differ from the ones now (thin red ink and fetch about a grand). He wouldn't even sign them for Upper Deck who he is under contract with. His old caddie couldn't get him to sign one for a family member.

As far as Nicklaus goes, he suprisingly still signs his fan mail. He has a lot of rules and it takes a while, but you can get an authentic signature from him through the mail.

I put “!” after a lot of my sentences. I got used to it from reading a lot of silver and Bronze Age books growing up!  I did appreciate your feedback.  There was other feedback that was given that was just plain snarky.  Sorry if you took that wrong.  
you gave an answer that was honest and fair. Pretty much exactly what I was looking for.  It was more a question out of curiosity than anything.  
Thank you for your answer.

On 9/13/2022 at 10:54 AM, Hey!! said:

FTFY

I have no idea what this means.

On 9/13/2022 at 2:37 AM, Monstertruck97 said:

Zero percent.

Jordan has always been pretty much impossible. The very definition of unrealistic.

He used to sign a little at golf courses way back, but he is well aware the value of his signature (valued in the thousands) and has never done a private or public signing (may still be exclusive with Upper Deck) and if he ever did (not like he needs the money), I am sure his asking price for his signature would be astronomical.

 

I appreciate your answer that didn't involve misdirected sarcasm!  That's pretty much what I thought but I don't get athlete's sigs very often.  I have Tiger Woods and a Jack Nicklaus signed golf balls but that's about it.

Hey everyone,

I got the below book and thought it would be pretty cool to get Jordan’s signature on it.  I have know idea how difficult it is to get his sig AND have a CGC witness to verify the event.

Does anyone have any clue if this is a realistic thing to accomplish?

Thanks in advance!

Rob

On 8/21/2022 at 5:44 AM, The Meta said:

Why would a customer want a damaged book to continue to be graded? 

Just so they can show this off, knowing the book would get a 9.8?

Anyone else notice a few missing steps here or are we just piling on?

I made an assumption as to what went down with this book.  I was in no way involved in the discussion.  Who would crack a 9.8 to read it or inspect it?  That doesn't sound logical to me but I 100% trust the source where this came from.  Seeing as the ripple from the tear is still present, the pictures were taken before the book was pressed would be my best guess.

Who would send in a book in this condition and "know" it will get a 9.8?  Only someone new to the hobby would hope to get a 9.8 from this book.  Again, the info was passed down to me so I was not a fly on the wall during the discussion of this book.  

It's OK to doubt the authenticity of these pictures. Heck, I would have some reservations believing it if I didn't know the source.

On 8/20/2022 at 10:03 PM, The Meta said:

This doesn't make a lot of sense....

That’s alright.  But can you please elaborate on your confusion?  Is it the reason for the picture taking?  Or that the customer told him to send it to CGC anyway?

On 8/20/2022 at 6:40 PM, jcjames said:

Are those tears before it was subbed or was it cracked out and discovered after grading?

The tears were there when they were being pressed.  The pictures were taken to show the customer.  They said send it in anyway.  This is the result!

This isn’t my book but I do trust the source.  

On 8/19/2022 at 6:38 AM, zzutak said:

Every example posted in this thread actually represents (at least) two separate fails: the upstream staff member who whiffed, and the QC staff member who failed to catch the upstream error.  One pitch, two strikes. 

These may only fall onto the grader.  Not sure the job of the QC.

On 8/18/2022 at 8:59 PM, manetteska said:

Is this a QC issue or a grading issue?

Both, I'd imagine.

On 8/18/2022 at 3:14 PM, Galen130 said:

 

The only thing I can think of is that they counted 96 spine ticks...hence the grade. 

You don't even need to be very good at grading to catch it.  The shipping department should have returned it to the graders.  LOL 

Sorry for the late response! Got caught up in something last night!! 

Guess this grade!! LOL  This book came back recently.

I’ll post later tonight