paul747

I dont think your stupid and i am not trying to dismiss you ! Because by ordering the nearest case pack over the needed amount there probably is always a surplus on the variants... We have seen the sales and the store surplus deals. if marvel needed 400 copies for the diamond final order cutoff they would most likely order 3 cases.. 675 copies.. I have definitely been told things like this. This would leave a surplus of 275 copies if no other copies where needed for damage or whatever. read above where i stated convention or special order ! wizard had a deal/ promotion. This is not the case on the JIM. man you really cant see what i am saying? and the 400 hundred was assuming it was a 200 case pack, i have since done the research to make an educated guess with what i know about how the system works.

I dont think your stupid and i am not trying to dismiss you ! Because by ordering the nearest case pack over the needed amount there probably is always a surplus on the variants... We have seen the sales and the store surplus deals. if marvel needed 400 copies for the diamond final order cutoff they would most likely order 3 cases.. 675 copies.. I have definitely been told things like this. This would leave a surplus of 275 copies if no other copies where needed for damage or whatever. I've been told similar. By sources at the publishing level & distribution level. But it falls under the CGC board logic category: Generic "I know things about stuff" boast. I've made obnoxious purchases on rare variants. As have many retailers here. +10000000 thanks LARRY ! you do know !

IT IS NOT A COMPLETE UNKNOWN !!!! really ? The clues are there to say it is a complete unknown is very unfair. comic chron is a great clue to start... Talking to diamond about there systems is a huge clue and help. Not only is it possible to estimate , it is possible to be within 10 percent ! before 2003.. what you are saying is absolutely true before diamond became the king !

I dont think your stupid and i am not trying to dismiss you ! Because by ordering the nearest case pack over the needed amount there probably is always a surplus on the variants... We have seen the sales and the store surplus deals. if marvel needed 400 copies for the diamond final order cutoff they would most likely order 3 cases.. 675 copies.. I have definitely been told things like this. This would leave a surplus of 275 copies if no other copies where needed for damage or whatever.

+1 I quit , he is a better writer and the spoiler tags are killing me !

Because marvel selling of incentive surplus is part of my point. are you reading or just disagreeing on the blind? MIN---225 MAX--1000 Thats not shaky or far off i bet ! Unless this book was in a store deal or con promotion this is not a horrible guess.

RMA... There is No actual number that we can know !!!! AGREE But we can use whatever we have to try to arrive at a guess right? it hurts no one ! As long as its not stated as a fact ! I stick to my guns that the JIM 633 most likely is not over 1000 and probably 2-3 cases. 450/675 very logical given the known factors... why would they ever print double or triple what is needed, just to liquidate. We know that at the most the UK is 15 percent of the total distribution numbers? on the high side. we know that just because 30,000/35,000 books where printed that only a percentage was FO cutoff with 50 or more. LOGIC

Some of you guys are crazy !! 450/675 is a good guess... key word used above is GUESS ! its not a stretch ! And chuck can I ask what kind of relationship you have with your diamond rep? its a fact they will not give you the exact print run but they will tell you in detail how things work. In my 14 years of dealing with them I have gotten some very valuable information from people that have advanced to higher positions in that company ! I believe it to be reliable... Larry has some communication issues but most of what he says about diamond is spot on. To say that the retail program is a fraud is crazy.... the variants print runs are in case packs and estimated... when the incentive numbers come in lower than estimations there are surplus. The surplus then is usually liquidated in one form or another to at least cover some costs. I bet some of the variant ordering is done with common sense and common sense on the book in question including the London boys would be 450/675 and because of the low print numbers that would explain the surplus. JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #633 VENOM VAR MARVEL COMICS (W) Kieron Gillen (A) Richard Elson (CA) TBD THE SON OF SATAN GUEST-STARS! Case Pack 225 estimated North America run 23,869 lets guess 10,000 everywhere else GUESS... 34,000 printed.. 150-160 cases... including damage or overrun. that would be 680 1:50 books... so to cover that number if every retailer ordered 50 copies they would need 4 cases... that's 1000 books. so depending on rest of the world print numbers and retailers order I dont think its anywhere near 1000... Where is the print run info for overseas? that's a key number that would tighten up this argument... its been said over and over there are no hard numbers but there is common sense and information on how certain company's operate... Hey RMA those numbers are used to create the print runs... then there is a certain damage or overprint percentage... the numbers most certainly are tied together please show me any info that SAYS DIFFERENT??? bleeding cool ! thats your proof I am saying they print more ! I bought variants in tons of these sales ! of course i believe it ! I know incentive variants are always printed in qtys more than they estimate the need at.

Bleeding cools site trips my virus protection . No one but diamond knows the final order cutoff numbers on incentive variants. but if you use the retail delivery numbers as a clue as well as damage and know the case pack number you can make a pretty good assumption...in this case even if 300 groups of fifty where ordered min would be a overprint of 150 books... you have a lot to take into account but if you put reasonable logic into the formula with the clues you can come close ... The case pack is a pretty solid X in the formula.

Some of you guys are crazy !! 450/675 is a good guess... key word used above is GUESS ! its not a stretch ! And chuck can I ask what kind of relationship you have with your diamond rep? its a fact they will not give you the exact print run but they will tell you in detail how things work. In my 14 years of dealing with them I have gotten some very valuable information from people that have advanced to higher positions in that company ! I believe it to be reliable... Larry has some communication issues but most of what he says about diamond is spot on. To say that the retail program is a fraud is crazy.... the variants print runs are in case packs and estimated... when the incentive numbers come in lower than estimations there are surplus. The surplus then is usually liquidated in one form or another to at least cover some costs. I bet some of the variant ordering is done with common sense and common sense on the book in question including the London boys would be 450/675 and because of the low print numbers that would explain the surplus. JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #633 VENOM VAR MARVEL COMICS (W) Kieron Gillen (A) Richard Elson (CA) TBD THE SON OF SATAN GUEST-STARS! Case Pack 225 estimated North America run 23,869 lets guess 10,000 everywhere else GUESS... 34,000 printed.. 150-160 cases... including damage or overrun. that would be 680 1:50 books... so to cover that number if every retailer ordered 50 copies they would need 4 cases... that's 1000 books. so depending on rest of the world print numbers and retailers order I dont think its anywhere near 1000... Where is the print run info for overseas? that's a key number that would tighten up this argument... its been said over and over there are no hard numbers but there is common sense and information on how certain company's operate... Hey RMA those numbers are used to create the print runs... then there is a certain damage or overprint percentage... the numbers most certainly are tied together please show me any info that SAYS DIFFERENT??? bleeding cool ! thats your proof I am saying they print more !

And RMA.... I really dont mind you and when your not a repetitive robot i have got some great stuff from you ! your CM17 stash is nice.... love that book !

Any one can read this RMA.... Q: How does Comichron derive the actual sales figures? A: The same way everyone else did for years: with reports from one or more publishers on what they actually sold to distributors, the entire chart can be unlocked. I began my monthly decoding of the charts in September 1996, and have been working to gather the information needed to figure out earlier months. Q: How accurate are the sales estimates? A: Before February 2003, Diamond was reporting preorders, and in that era, the margin of error was higher. I used a basket of publishers' actual sales figures to derive a likely estimate for the Order Index Numbers — and found that there was significant variance because the publishers did not get their purchase orders at the same time relative to the moment Diamond calculated its charts. But after that date, Diamond switched to reporting final orders — and while that meant that the charts came out later than they did in the preorder days, suddenly, all the variance between publishers' reports vanished. This is why estimates computed by Comichron, ICV2, and ComicBookPage are often identical. The same math obtains everywhere now. Q: What is included in the Diamond monthly charts? A: Beginning in February 2003, the Diamond charts report the number of copies it shipped to retailers from its warehouses in North America during the calendar month. Sometimes, the books may actually arrive in the next calendar month, but they're invoiced based on the day they leave the facilities. So occasionally you'll see a January where the first week's sales actually are reported with December. Q: What is NOT included in the Diamond monthly charts? A: This is important, because it is a topic often misunderstood. Not included are: • copies shipped outside the calendar month, including most reorders • copies sold outside North America; the UK market often adds 10% or so • copies sold outside the comics shop distribution network, such as on newsstands, in bookstores, or by postal subscription • and anything digital. There is no source for digital sales figures. MORE INFO If you think there was more than 4 cases of this variant printed please study math? better yet ill give you something to argue about, please tell me how more than 1000 1:50 variants could have been printed? common sense and some clues is not complete trash !

Some of you guys are crazy !! 450/675 is a good guess... key word used above is GUESS ! its not a stretch ! And chuck can I ask what kind of relationship you have with your diamond rep? its a fact they will not give you the exact print run but they will tell you in detail how things work. In my 14 years of dealing with them I have gotten some very valuable information from people that have advanced to higher positions in that company ! I believe it to be reliable... Larry has some communication issues but most of what he says about diamond is spot on. To say that the retail program is a fraud is crazy.... the variants print runs are in case packs and estimated... when the incentive numbers come in lower than estimations there are surplus. The surplus then is usually liquidated in one form or another to at least cover some costs. I bet some of the variant ordering is done with common sense and common sense on the book in question including the London boys would be 450/675 and because of the low print numbers that would explain the surplus. JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #633 VENOM VAR MARVEL COMICS (W) Kieron Gillen (A) Richard Elson (CA) TBD THE SON OF SATAN GUEST-STARS! Case Pack 225 estimated North America run 23,869 lets guess 10,000 everywhere else GUESS... 34,000 printed.. 150-160 cases... including damage or overrun. that would be 680 1:50 books... so to cover that number if every retailer ordered 50 copies they would need 4 cases... that's 1000 books. so depending on rest of the world print numbers and retailers order I dont think its anywhere near 1000... Where is the print run info for overseas? that's a key number that would tighten up this argument... its been said over and over there are no hard numbers but there is common sense and information on how certain company's operate... Hey RMA those numbers are used to create the print runs... then there is a certain damage or overprint,, initial orders, FOC ... the numbers most certainly are tied together please show me any info that SAYS DIFFERENT??? You can make educated guesses and label them as such !! based on very good conversations with the only distributor !!

Some of you guys are crazy !! 450/675 is a good guess... key word used above is GUESS ! its not a stretch ! And chuck can I ask what kind of relationship you have with your diamond rep? its a fact they will not give you the exact print run but they will tell you in detail how things work. In my 14 years of dealing with them I have gotten some very valuable information from people that have advanced to higher positions in that company ! I believe it to be reliable... Larry has some communication issues but most of what he says about diamond is spot on. To say that the retail program is a fraud is crazy.... the variants print runs are in case packs and estimated... when the incentive numbers come in lower than estimations there are surplus. The surplus then is usually liquidated in one form or another to at least cover some costs. I bet some of the variant ordering is done with common sense and common sense on the book in question including the London boys would be 450/675 and because of the low print numbers that would explain the surplus. JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #633 VENOM VAR MARVEL COMICS (W) Kieron Gillen (A) Richard Elson (CA) TBD THE SON OF SATAN GUEST-STARS! Case Pack 225 estimated North America run 23,869 lets guess 10,000 everywhere else GUESS... 34,000 printed.. 150-160 cases... including damage or overrun. that would be 680 1:50 books... so to cover that number if every retailer ordered 50 copies they would need 4 cases... that's 1000 books. so depending on rest of the world print numbers and retailers order I dont think its anywhere near 1000... Where is the print run info for overseas? that's a key number that would tighten up this argument... its been said over and over there are no hard numbers but there is common sense and information on how certain company's operate... Hey RMA those numbers are used to create the print runs... then there is a certain damage or overprint percentage... the numbers most certainly are tied together please show me any info that SAYS DIFFERENT???

Some of you guys are crazy !! 450/675 is a good guess... key word used above is GUESS ! its not a stretch ! And chuck can I ask what kind of relationship you have with your diamond rep? its a fact they will not give you the exact print run but they will tell you in detail how things work. In my 14 years of dealing with them I have gotten some very valuable information from people that have advanced to higher positions in that company ! I believe it to be reliable... Larry has some communication issues but most of what he says about diamond is spot on. To say that the retail program is a fraud is crazy.... the variants print runs are in case packs and estimated... when the incentive numbers come in lower than estimations there are surplus. The surplus then is usually liquidated in one form or another to at least cover some costs. I bet some of the variant ordering is done with common sense and common sense on the book in question including the London boys would be 450/675 and because of the low print numbers that would explain the surplus. JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #633 VENOM VAR MARVEL COMICS (W) Kieron Gillen (A) Richard Elson (CA) TBD THE SON OF SATAN GUEST-STARS! Case Pack 225 estimated North America run 23,869 lets guess 10,000 everywhere else GUESS... 34,000 printed.. 150-160 cases... including damage or overrun. that would be 680 1:50 books... so to cover that number if every retailer ordered 50 copies they would need 4 cases... that's 1000 books. so depending on rest of the world print numbers and retailers order I dont think its anywhere near 1000... Where is the print run info for overseas? that's a key number that would tighten up this argument... its been said over and over there are no hard numbers but there is common sense and information on how certain company's operate...

Jays number on the variant is probaly real close. 2 cases of 200... It is a logical guess. And there was probably hundred plus that where still sitting at diamond. It could still be a small print. The retail program is not a fraud but as stated they order to the closest case pack.

Omg. So many sales are not on GPA. Certain silver and even bronze pedigree "KEY" books most certainly demand a premium. I follow this thread and Rob is a true DD collector. I wish him luck on getting his #1 and that 9.2 was nicer than many 9.4's.

Are you the CBSI GUY? Tron pump and dump Man these guys buy this stuff up then pump it ! Any one following these guys are C H U M P S ! Its not pump and dump. Its pump and chump.... Anyone with a brain knows those books have been bought by mostly BY PUMPERS before the hyped up web post. I mean this is getting desperate. Amen brotha !! I've asked this before and I think I got a response from you as to something like "you can tell the pump & dumpers". How are you supposed to talk about comics you like and not be considered a pump & dumper? The Tron variants have sold pretty well for a while depending on the cover. The ASM has been pretty consistently over $50. So true. Any book that gets talked about get essentially getting 'pumped', I mean look at this thread title. By that logic, anyone whose posted a book in this thread is a pumper no different than CBSI. Jerome I think there is a BIG difference! It is obvious that whoever wrote that "interest piece on the Tron variants" was loading up for the last month or 2 for the double $ flip ,once the news article was released ! that's bad pool no matter how you look at it ! mentioning a book and talking about it or linking to a couple of recent sales is not the same as obvious blatant market manipulation. If that was the stock market those guys are doing time ! So if you invest some money in a book you think might get hot and then news breaks about it you can't say anything? Hmm where has Capitalism gone folks. Google insider trading Nate Vegas. And if you are the one investing in the book about to get hot because you know about the news thats not capitalism that's manipulation !

That's just about the safest bet around. Some creative financial engineer needs to sell a put option on the group so we can score on the nosedive. So let me get this straight.... You just told us the only modern comic books we should spend our money on are the most common versions of whatever "key" flavour of the week that you guys are talking about in here. Great thanks, got it. -J. Jay it is obvious that you have many horses in this convo. Some of the variants you pimp are special . 70 percent of your list has some sort of key-ness or special quality.(I own more than a couple on your hit list) The ones that do not In my opinion will not sustain this manufactured hype ! Your argument on classic covers might hold water with some of these moderns but it will be 50 years from now ! the prices for so/so variants will cash hard in-between now and then ! People rushing out and paying double what a book was worth 2 days ago because of a hype artical is CRAZY ! that's my only point of concern . The only reason the book is worth double is because of an article? how does that make sense?

Are you the CBSI GUY? Tron pump and dump Man these guys buy this stuff up then pump it ! Any one following these guys are C H U M P S ! Its not pump and dump. Its pump and chump.... Anyone with a brain knows those books have been bought by mostly BY PUMPERS before the hyped up web post. I mean this is getting desperate. Amen brotha !! I've asked this before and I think I got a response from you as to something like "you can tell the pump & dumpers". How are you supposed to talk about comics you like and not be considered a pump & dumper? The Tron variants have sold pretty well for a while depending on the cover. The ASM has been pretty consistently over $50. So true. Any book that gets talked about get essentially getting 'pumped', I mean look at this thread title. By that logic, anyone whose posted a book in this thread is a pumper no different than CBSI. Jerome I think there is a BIG difference! It is obvious that whoever wrote that "interest piece on the Tron variants" was loading up for the last month or 2 for the double $ flip ,once the news article was released ! that's bad pool no matter how you look at it ! mentioning a book and talking about it or linking to a couple of recent sales is not the same as obvious blatant market manipulation. If that was the stock market those guys are doing time !

I think modern variants with nothing special about them will crash and burn. I feel bad for some of the people that get sucked into the hype. Hopefully its just desperate flippers selling to each other. I mean its getting real crooked.

Are you the CBSI GUY? Tron pump and dump Man these guys buy this stuff up then pump it ! Any one following these guys are C H U M P S ! Its not pump and dump. Its pump and chump.... Anyone with a brain knows those books have been bought by mostly BY PUMPERS before the hyped up web post. I mean this is getting desperate.

Ha come on man. The book is selling as soon as it's listed for 9 bucks now... Are people really this desperate to flip books? The only ones buying are hoping to double and triple their money leaving anyone at the top with a book worth 5 bucks , tops .. This flipping, pump and dump culture is hilarious... Everyone looking for a new car from book flipping.... Books worth cover period....

get them fast.. CBSI is hyping them !!! worth 20 a piece all day ....