paul747

Check out ghost towns post in the top 3 books to own. There is about 40 graded 8.0 or higher. For the demand on this book that's not a lot...

I have seen more than a couple of copies over the last couple of years and most where in the 2.0 to 4.0 range. Only one was real nice and the lady would not sell it. She ended up taking it to a major con and got it graded it came back purple.

I agree. Abolsute non-sense is the worst kind of all, and of that I am abolsutely certain. But...what do you mean by "unearthed"? Do you mean copies owned by people who don't know what they have...? If so, I agree with your numbers. But do you mean copies owned by people who do? Then, I'd have to disagree. Then I guess you are half agreeing with me. There are not thousands of Raw copies left ungraded. I travel all around the country for shows and I don't think any national dealer would agree with that school of thought. Could there be? Sure, but my Eagles could also win the Superbowl one year. I wouldn't hold my breath on either anytime soon. Would be interesting to take a poll of all major dealers and their thoughts. I would say with near certainty there are thousands (as in more than one thousand ) of ungraded af15s out there in folks collections and with equal certainty (having also traveled the country and set up at major shows for last 10 years) would think the #1 seller of vintage comics in the world, metro , has sold near that many themselves (maybe Vincent will chime in). Heck, I see many many every show. For someone to think there are only hundreds of ungraded af15 in existence seems naive to me, based on what I've seen.... But again, I suspect we can't really ever know. Just look at major dealers walls at shows, or online inventory. They continue to be raw heavy (metro, dale Roberts, Harley Yee, Ritter, bedrock, graham crackers , etc). Sure more valuable books will get slabbed , but to think that more than 60% of all existing af15s have been slabbed doesn't pass the sight or experience or logic test (imo) I read this thread and I am taking this post as the answer ! How can you argue with people in the trenches !

With this sale and the 5,000.00 8.0 a couple of weeks ago I would say DD #1 is going up ............ looks like both sales are legit.

They worked for me so far 75 % The more specific the better.

Census went up 37 books in last 2 weeks ! but only 3 9.8's( ) out of the new books.

There is only 3 9.8's ....hard to hoard.. 9.8's aren't the be all, end all. Label-puffing is sorta silly. I wasn't getting on you specifically Paul, there are just tons of beautiful BA books out there in 9.2 - 9.6 slabs, as well as superior raw copies. My point was only that 9.8s aren't necessary to make a nice collection. +1 i gotcha... i was just saying its hard to hoard 9.6-9.8 of MP1 because there are not a lot out there graded.. (yet?)

There is only 3 9.8's ....hard to hoard.. 9.8's aren't the be all, end all. Label-puffing is sorta silly.

There is only 3 9.8's ....hard to hoard..

Put your money where your mouth is, windbag! Gauntlet thrown! where is the 9.8 blazer .? Nice hoard.

+1

Silverdream NO

+100 and my last post on this topic ! the print run is definitely over 100,000 copies probably like 400,000 cause i don't think those 200,000 plus supposed returns where destroyed. don't know for sure and really don't care anymore i have seen hundreds hoarded in the last year. I am just using this as an example because multiple people post the same thing. Nothing personal. Do you guys have any actual facts or do you just keep repeating the same myths shared by others? Where on Earth did you hear there were 200,000 returns for Star Wars #1? I have never seen that in all the books I have read about Star Wars that cover this story in detail. Why in the heck would Stan Lee print 400,000 of a comic he did not believe in prior to the movie where he only agreed to it thinking he would never have to pay royalties over 100,000? He was selling through 280,000 copies of his best selling title at the time (Spiderman). He was burnt by many the other "tie in" movies and did not want another one. He had to be convinced to "give it a try" on a completely unknown movie. With all of that, he then decides, what the heck, lets print more then we have ever sold through in our best selling title? What actual data supports this story? From the data I know, it does not fit any of the facts around the movie and this comic. Man You need to read ! this is a sample just posted by Chuck Gower on last page. Use it as a guide for average print runs from this period. if its even close to right that means 400,000-500,000 where printed. As pointed out above with the 100,000 free of royalty, that probably justified marvel doing their average print run... Even your info says that the 100,000 free of royalty was gone real fast ... As for the return system that has been proven many time's that a portion of these books where never destroyed but in fact hoarded. (see a mile high story on the subject for one example.) If i knew for sure i would just say it, I DON'T, i do know it is not a 100,000 copy rare book. 1975 1976 1977 1978 1979 Issue Statement appearing in: #155 April #167 April #178 March #191 April Date of filing: 9/22/75 9/20/76 9/20/77 9/25/78 Issues published during year: 12 12 12 12 Annual subscription price: $3.50 $4.00 $4.50 $4.50 Cover price during year: $0.25 $0.30 $0.35 $0.35 Total Copies PRINTED (avg): 530,714 555,709 587,702 558,630 Sales through DEALERS (avg): 269,167 278,909 271,491 230,208 Sales by SUBSCRIPTION (avg): 4,606 3,250 10,369 27,948 Total PAID circulation (avg): 273,773 282,159 281,860 258,156 Samples by MAIL (avg): 0 0 200 225 Samples OUTSIDE mail (avg): 0 0 0 0 Total FREE circulation (avg): 0 0 200 225 TOTAL DISTRIBUTION: 273,773 282,159 282,060 258,381 Copies not distributed (office): 3,015 3,080 2,980 2,160 Copies not distributed (RETURNS): 253,926 270,470 302,662 298,030 Reported % Paid/Requested: % of RUN RETURNED: 47.8% 48.7% 51.5% 53.4% #DIV/0! Copies existent: 276,788 285,239 285,040 260,541 0 SELL-THROUGH at RETAIL: 51.6% 50.8% 48.0% 46.2% #DIV/0!

+100 and my last post on this topic ! the print run is definitely over 100,000 copies probably like 400,000 cause i don't think those 200,000 plus supposed returns where destroyed. don't know for sure and really don't care anymore i have seen hundreds hoarded in the last year.

There are a few sources for both the royalty free arrangement and the 100,000 copies: First paragraph: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_(comics) Second paragraph: http://nothingbutcomics.net/2015/01/19/star-wars-original-70s-adventures/ I cannot find the text online, but the book, "How Star Wars Conquered the Universe" researched by Chris Taylor goes into detail about this negotiation. George Lucas was a large comic fan. He could not get Marvel interested in the movie in his first attempts with a "traditional" royalty arrangement so they went back and basically said "print it for free and we will only return if you sell over 100,000". That gave the person the "green light" to go back and resell it to Stan Lee who had already passed on the project. So, I ask you, if it was so clearly "not interesting" to Marvel at the top, and they had to push to the point of giving the first 100,000 to them for free to get them to print the book, why would Marvel turn around and print 280k books? The 100,00 was like a "free trial" on something you had strong doubts about. So, you print 280k? It does not make sense. Now, I cannot find a specific reference that says "we printed 100,000" copies. That is the mystery here. It is implied in all the readings but not specifically stated. So, there is room for interpretation but my interpretation follows logically from what has been documented about this process. They did not believe in this book. It was "pushed on them" until they decided to give it a try. That is why it would have a lessor print run to start. They also had to renegotiate the book after 100,000, it would be natural for them to do reprints AFTER that negotiation was completed. Why print 180k books (180k over the 100k) not even knowing how much they were going to cost you in royalties? Did you read your source material? Plain as day it says 100,000 was exceeded very quickly. Like others have stated they would have printed more than 100,000 and excepted the fact that the first 100k was royalty free. There have been multiple conversations on the minimum print runs why would they short print the first printing of this book ? I guess the argument could be proven with the second printing or subsequent printing info. Lee negotiated a publishing arrangement with no royalties to Lucasfilm until sales exceeded 100,000 at which point legal arrangements could be revisited.[1] Marvel Comics Group published a series of Star Wars comic books from 1977 to 1986, lasting 107 issues and 3 annuals. According to former Marvel Editor-In-Chief Jim Shooter, the strong sales of Star Wars comics saved Marvel financially in 1977 and 1978.[2] Marvel's Star Wars series was one of the industry's top selling titles in 1979 and 1980.[3] The only downside for Marvel was that the 100,000 copy sales quota was surpassed quickly, allowing Lippincott to renegotiate the royalty arrangements from a position of strength.

case in my terms is over 200 copies of the book . But for sure some of the 1977 stuff was in case boxes (or at least ended up in boxes ) not bundles. I use the term for over 200 copies. As for the old bundles to boxes argument I believe there where both...

Nice room. Is that FF poster a blacklight poster ?

For that matter, all I see are 3 Star Wars #1s and a bunch of common superhero books. +1 ... Funny.. I have more star wars #1 have to go digging. I don't have over 25 that's for sure. But I have recently seen a case or 2 eq. (couple hundred copies) that's all I am saying. As for a 100,000 print run I think that info is off. Like rjrjr stated , that would be interesting to see the source info. Will say that they where not all high grade.

I don't know where the hoards of early seventies mid run Books are but if you do let me know.

Whatever ! they are out there Never said i had them ! but i do have books that came from those cases ! Never splurged on the entire lot. Should have !

And I am still not mad enough to actually go long box digging ! The 1976-78 stuff is stashed heavily Even STAR WARS #1 There are guys probably on this board with HOARDS ! I could care showing pics its a pain to move so many issues I am flipped and fee'd out on this 70's stuff. So keep paying 500-2000 for copies of this stuff It will BITE YOU ! ( well maybe not NM #98 is holding up !)

-slym -1

a quick pick ... you should see the other guy...(where they came from) There are more of these out there.. Believe it !

Can you get your hands on some of these cases of books? Sure want me to make a u-tube video ? come on there are TONS of Novas , shazams, spider-woman, ms marvels all the 1977 books where hoarded like the nineties. The guys that have them are for sure breaking them open and slowly processing them into the system. I bet a couple of them are throwing out shill bids with BS eBay accounts to get the price up. Yes, I'd love to see a video. I don't believe these unopened cases you speak of exist. I want proof. Do you know anything about Star wars collectors? they are hoarders period ! there are unopened cases of this book out there and there are guys who have tons of copies ! the utube video was a joke ...hence the face icon.. You will have your prof keep your eye on the census, if this price point holds for a while they will be flying in to CGC. If I personally had a case the last thing i would do is SHOW YOU ! I know the youtube video coment from you was a joke, I meant if anyone were to have cases of any of the books you mentioned (not just the star wars #1) I would love to see them because I don't think they exist at the volumes you say they do. They really are out there ! look at the latest MS marvel #1 find hundred plus ! I have seen Tons of these books I mean Tons.. Nova , Shazam they are everywhere in BULK. I got 15 Copies of Star Wars #1 of a guy on Ebay a year ago he had just cracked a case.

Can you get your hands on some of these cases of books? Sure want me to make a u-tube video ? come on there are TONS of Novas , shazams, spider-woman, ms marvels all the 1977 books where hoarded like the nineties. The guys that have them are for sure breaking them open and slowly processing them into the system. I bet a couple of them are throwing out shill bids with BS eBay accounts to get the price up. Yes, I'd love to see a video. I don't believe these unopened cases you speak of exist. I want proof. (..NICE VOICE..) Do you know anything about Star wars collectors? they are hoarders period ! there are unopened cases of this book out there and there are guys who have tons of copies ! the utube video was a joke ...hence the face icon.. You will have your prof keep your eye on the census, if this price point holds for a while they will be flying in to CGC. If I personally had a case the last thing i would do is SHOW YOU !