paul747

Vincent D'Onofrio is exceptional here... and he stands out in this series. His vocal tone, his mannerisms, his anger... all perfect for this role.

 

He is literally "bottled rage" as the Kingpin.

 

I will never look at my SUV car door the same again

 

xxx ooo

 

Rupp

Bottom line is buy DD if you like the books. Movies and other media have never done DD justice until now... As for guys that buy as investments , I wonder if they ever try to sell , it's not as easy and liquid as real investments. DD is kick and a lot of his silver age books have been seriously undervalued for years in comparison to other silver characters. I know there are more of the 1964 books in higher grade than the early silver age marvel but in the long run if you love DD books and are holding I don't think your going to be unhappy.

Netflix marvel = marvel max

Bring on the punisher. Marvel is on fire and they can go in so many directions I don't see it going away any time soon, if they can keep up there tv quality the movies will be judged separately.

Thanks guys...Sam yours is no joke..

Made it to #6... WOW !!! great TV !

This is not a speculation thread

 

This is one of the few modern threads where true believers live (I count myself amongst them). I came to invincible later in the series but loved it so much I had to put a run together. I have a complete 2-current including most variants (had a #1 but it sold, but I can get another as I have had several).

 

This is my favorite current series and if you haven't read it you are truly missing out. I need to read some right now

'coasttocoastcomics' is selling bad books on Ebay. Bought a listing that was stated as a '9.8' received the book and it was at best a 9.0-9.2. I contacted the seller immediately and told him what the issue was. He offered a partial refund which is a joke. I refused and said I wanted to return the book for a full refund. He initiated the return process. I returned the book and once tracking showed the book was in the sellers hands a claim was put in against me that stated I destroyed the book. Ebay for some reason immediately ruled in the sellers favor and I had to call to speak with a manager to get my money back. Avoid this seller at all costs.

 

There are some not so good comments about coasttocoastcomics over in the Bronze Age heating up on eBay thread.

for the lazy...

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=23&Number=8477560&Searchpage=1&Main=281544&Words=coasttocoastcomics&topic=0&Search=true#Post8477560

 

I'm pretty sure that is Frank "musclesharkdouche" that was banned from the boards.

 

Bought a "9.6" from coasttocoast a few years ago. Came back a 6.0, which set a record for me for worst Ebay grading ever. There are plenty of horror stories, just do some google searches.

Being a newb to Silver books, I was wondering something. Has there ever been a near mint copy of AF 15 ? Guess I could check the registry, but I'm too lazy.

I have seen more than a couple of copies over the last couple of years and most where in the 2.0 to 4.0 range. Only one was real nice and the lady would not sell it. She ended up taking it to a major con and got it graded it came back purple.

I will say with abolsute certainly there are not thousands of AF 15's laying around that have not yet been unearthed yet by collectors or dealers. Maybe at best 1k and I am being generous with that guess.

 

That is unrealistic and I won't hear such abolsute non-sense.

 

AF 15 is not a rare book, but they don't grow on trees either.

 

Unless some kind of warehouse unearths a couple thousand copies I won't hold my breath the CGC census will be x10 anytime soon.

 

I agree. Abolsute non-sense is the worst kind of all, and of that I am abolsutely certain.

 

But...what do you mean by "unearthed"? Do you mean copies owned by people who don't know what they have...? If so, I agree with your numbers.

 

But do you mean copies owned by people who do?

 

Then, I'd have to disagree.

 

Then I guess you are half agreeing with me.

 

There are not thousands of Raw copies left ungraded. I travel all around the country for shows and I don't think any national dealer would agree with that school of thought.

 

Could there be? Sure, but my Eagles could also win the Superbowl one year. I wouldn't hold my breath on either anytime soon.

 

Would be interesting to take a poll of all major dealers and their thoughts. I would say with near certainty there are thousands (as in more than one thousand ) of ungraded af15s out there in folks collections and with equal certainty (having also traveled the country and set up at major shows for last 10 years) would think the #1 seller of vintage comics in the world, metro , has sold near that many themselves (maybe Vincent will chime in).

 

Heck, I see many many every show. For someone to think there are only hundreds of ungraded af15 in existence seems naive to me, based on what I've seen.... But again, I suspect we can't really ever know.

 

Just look at major dealers walls at shows, or online inventory. They continue to be raw heavy (metro, dale Roberts, Harley Yee, Ritter, bedrock, graham crackers , etc). Sure more valuable books will get slabbed , but to think that more than 60% of all existing af15s have been slabbed doesn't pass the sight or experience or logic test (imo)

I read this thread and I am taking this post as the answer ! How can you argue with people in the trenches !

Holy moly.. C-Link sold a DD #1 CGC 7.5 for $4800

They worked for me so far 75 % The more specific the better.

Census went up 37 books in last 2 weeks ! but only 3 9.8's( ) out of the new books.

. Another example is with Adam Warlock. High grade slabs of Marvel Premiere 1 are rarely seen for sale anymore.

There is only 3 9.8's ....hard to hoard..

 

9.8's aren't the be all, end all. Label-puffing is sorta silly.

 

I wasn't getting on you specifically Paul, there are just tons of beautiful BA books out there in 9.2 - 9.6 slabs, as well as superior raw copies. My point was only that 9.8s aren't necessary to make a nice collection.

+1 i gotcha... i was just saying its hard to hoard 9.6-9.8 of MP1 because there are not a lot out there graded.. (yet?)

. Another example is with Adam Warlock. High grade slabs of Marvel Premiere 1 are rarely seen for sale anymore.

There is only 3 9.8's ....hard to hoard..

 

9.8's aren't the be all, end all. Label-puffing is sorta silly.

. Another example is with Adam Warlock. High grade slabs of Marvel Premiere 1 are rarely seen for sale anymore.

There is only 3 9.8's ....hard to hoard..

Mutual funds are long term. Yes market is high. But would put my mutual funds against what ever comic collection you have anyday. Let's see who gets money

 

Put your money where your mouth is, windbag!

 

Gauntlet thrown!

Beautiful book!

Silverdream

I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree.

 

If you do this, then you have to do it for ASM 252 as well. And dozens or even hundreds of other books.

 

Also, doing this opens up arguments about time travel, flashbacks and so fourth.

 

You're asking for a mess.

 

Keep it clean. Release date wins, period.

 

NO

The kool-aid is strong with this one.

 

Yeesh - I can barely see through the clouds of hype around here. *NEWSFLASH* - this book wasn't discovered yesterday. I remember seeing this book on a dealer wall at my first convention in 1985, with a price tag of $8. Even then, at the age of 10, I was already aware of how incredibly common this book was. It's not rare, it's never been rare, it will never be rare. And Star Wars has been popular for almost 40 years now, and this has *ALWAYS* been reflected in the price of this book. And yet, the book almost triples in "value" over the last six months...? Does that seem reasonable?

 

IMO, dropping $1800 on a 9.8 #1 might be the single WORST thing I can think of to do with that money. If I have the books, I'm selling them All. Day. Long. If I'm a buyer...I'm not buying. Simple as that.

 

+100 and my last post on this topic ! the print run is definitely over 100,000 copies probably like 400,000 cause i don't think those 200,000 plus supposed returns where destroyed. don't know for sure and really don't care anymore i have seen hundreds hoarded in the last year.

 

I am just using this as an example because multiple people post the same thing. Nothing personal.

 

Do you guys have any actual facts or do you just keep repeating the same myths shared by others?

 

Where on Earth did you hear there were 200,000 returns for Star Wars #1? I have never seen that in all the books I have read about Star Wars that cover this story in detail.

 

Why in the heck would Stan Lee print 400,000 of a comic he did not believe in prior to the movie where he only agreed to it thinking he would never have to pay royalties over 100,000?

 

He was selling through 280,000 copies of his best selling title at the time (Spiderman). He was burnt by many the other "tie in" movies and did not want another one. He had to be convinced to "give it a try" on a completely unknown movie.

 

With all of that, he then decides, what the heck, lets print more then we have ever sold through in our best selling title?

 

What actual data supports this story? From the data I know, it does not fit any of the facts around the movie and this comic.

Man You need to read ! this is a sample just posted by Chuck Gower on last page. Use it as a guide for average print runs from this period. if its even close to right that means 400,000-500,000 where printed. As pointed out above with the 100,000 free of royalty, that probably justified marvel doing their average print run... Even your info says that the 100,000 free of royalty was gone real fast ...

As for the return system that has been proven many time's that a portion of these books where never destroyed but in fact hoarded. (see a mile high story on the subject for one example.)

If i knew for sure i would just say it, I DON'T, i do know it is not a 100,000 copy rare book.

1975 1976 1977 1978 1979

Issue Statement appearing in: #155 April #167 April #178 March #191 April

Date of filing: 9/22/75 9/20/76 9/20/77 9/25/78

Issues published during year: 12 12 12 12

Annual subscription price: $3.50 $4.00 $4.50 $4.50

Cover price during year: $0.25 $0.30 $0.35 $0.35

Total Copies PRINTED (avg): 530,714 555,709 587,702 558,630

Sales through DEALERS (avg): 269,167 278,909 271,491 230,208

Sales by SUBSCRIPTION (avg): 4,606 3,250 10,369 27,948

Total PAID circulation (avg): 273,773 282,159 281,860 258,156

Samples by MAIL (avg): 0 0 200 225

Samples OUTSIDE mail (avg): 0 0 0 0

Total FREE circulation (avg): 0 0 200 225

TOTAL DISTRIBUTION: 273,773 282,159 282,060 258,381

Copies not distributed (office): 3,015 3,080 2,980 2,160

Copies not distributed (RETURNS): 253,926 270,470 302,662 298,030

Reported % Paid/Requested:

% of RUN RETURNED: 47.8% 48.7% 51.5% 53.4% #DIV/0!

Copies existent: 276,788 285,239 285,040 260,541 0

SELL-THROUGH at RETAIL: 51.6% 50.8% 48.0% 46.2% #DIV/0!

The kool-aid is strong with this one.

 

Yeesh - I can barely see through the clouds of hype around here. *NEWSFLASH* - this book wasn't discovered yesterday. I remember seeing this book on a dealer wall at my first convention in 1985, with a price tag of $8. Even then, at the age of 10, I was already aware of how incredibly common this book was. It's not rare, it's never been rare, it will never be rare. And Star Wars has been popular for almost 40 years now, and this has *ALWAYS* been reflected in the price of this book. And yet, the book almost triples in "value" over the last six months...? Does that seem reasonable?

 

IMO, dropping $1800 on a 9.8 #1 might be the single WORST thing I can think of to do with that money. If I have the books, I'm selling them All. Day. Long. If I'm a buyer...I'm not buying. Simple as that.

+100 and my last post on this topic ! the print run is definitely over 100,000 copies probably like 400,000 cause i don't think those 200,000 plus supposed returns where destroyed. don't know for sure and really don't care anymore i have seen hundreds hoarded in the last year.

Just curious, because until this thread, I never read or heard about this royalty free information. What is the source of that information?

 

There are a few sources for both the royalty free arrangement and the 100,000 copies:

 

First paragraph:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_(comics)

 

Second paragraph:

 

http://nothingbutcomics.net/2015/01/19/star-wars-original-70s-adventures/

 

I cannot find the text online, but the book, "How Star Wars Conquered the Universe" researched by Chris Taylor goes into detail about this negotiation.

 

George Lucas was a large comic fan. He could not get Marvel interested in the movie in his first attempts with a "traditional" royalty arrangement so they went back and basically said "print it for free and we will only return if you sell over 100,000". That gave the person the "green light" to go back and resell it to Stan Lee who had already passed on the project.

 

So, I ask you, if it was so clearly "not interesting" to Marvel at the top, and they had to push to the point of giving the first 100,000 to them for free to get them to print the book, why would Marvel turn around and print 280k books?

 

The 100,00 was like a "free trial" on something you had strong doubts about.

 

So, you print 280k? It does not make sense. Now, I cannot find a specific reference that says "we printed 100,000" copies. That is the mystery here. It is implied in all the readings but not specifically stated. So, there is room for interpretation but my interpretation follows logically from what has been documented about this process.

 

They did not believe in this book. It was "pushed on them" until they decided to give it a try. That is why it would have a lessor print run to start. They also had to renegotiate the book after 100,000, it would be natural for them to do reprints AFTER that negotiation was completed. Why print 180k books (180k over the 100k) not even knowing how much they were going to cost you in royalties?

Did you read your source material? Plain as day it says 100,000 was exceeded very quickly. Like others have stated they would have printed more than 100,000 and excepted the fact that the first 100k was royalty free. There have been multiple conversations on the minimum print runs why would they short print the first printing of this book ? I guess the argument could be proven with the second printing or subsequent printing info.

Lee negotiated a publishing arrangement with no royalties to Lucasfilm until sales exceeded 100,000 at which point legal arrangements could be revisited.[1]

Marvel Comics Group published a series of Star Wars comic books from 1977 to 1986, lasting 107 issues and 3 annuals. According to former Marvel Editor-In-Chief Jim Shooter, the strong sales of Star Wars comics saved Marvel financially in 1977 and 1978.[2] Marvel's Star Wars series was one of the industry's top selling titles in 1979 and 1980.[3] The only downside for Marvel was that the 100,000 copy sales quota was surpassed quickly, allowing Lippincott to renegotiate the royalty arrangements from a position of strength.

Alert! Anecdotal (not independently verifiable) information to follow:

 

Another difference with Star Wars 1 is that it always carried a higher value than the other books being discussed - Nova 1, Shazam 1, Ms. marvel 1 etc. Star Wars was at least $5 for the entire time I was stockpiling books. Nova and Ms. Marvel especially were in 50 cent and dollar boxes in 9.0+ in droves. I pulled exactly zero SW1 out of bargain bins. I had my keeper copy and that is all.

 

Also, everyone that keeps talking about unopened cases - you should figure out at what point in time books started coming out in cases. I don't know for sure, but until that point it was shipping bundles. I suspect SW1 was a shipping bundle book, not a case book.

Nice room. Is that FF poster a blacklight poster ?

I am looking but I don't see any cases...

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

For that matter, all I see are 3 Star Wars #1s and a bunch of common superhero books.

 

Will say that they where not all high grade.

Hey, were are all the unopened cases of the GOOD stuff like HULK #181 or All Star comics #58 Or Green Lantern Green Arrow #76?