yoddler

Gyllenhaal to replace Hardy? I thought he was playing Nightcrawler? http://www.slashfilm.com/tom-hardy-suicide-squad-exit/

If that ship hasn't sailed yet, it's at least pulled anchor... probably could still find a good deal out in the wild though!

Confirmed! The show revealed Skye’s true identity as Daisy Johnson, a.k.a. the super powered Quake from the comics, and that the Doctor’s real name is actually Calvin Zabo, a.k.a. Mister Hyde. But the process that transformed Skye and Raina also took Agent Triplett’s life in one of the series’ most tragic moments yet. http://marvel.com/news/tv/23795/debriefing_the_marvels_agents_of_shield_winter_finale

Benedict Cumberbatch Confirmed To Play ‘Doctor Strange’ http://www.slashfilm.com/benedict-cumberbatch-doctor-strange-2/ http://marvel.com/news/movies/23754/benedict_cumberbatch_to_play_doctor_strange

AMC just green-lit the pilot! http://variety.com/2014/tv/news/amc-orders-pilot-for-preacher-comic-book-1201369956/

Warner Bros. has just revealed the cast of David Ayer‘s Suicide Squad – and it’s huge. Jared Leto is The Joker, Will Smith is Deadshot, Tom Hardy is Rick Flagg, Margot Robbie is Harley Quinn, Jai Courtney is Boomerang and Cara Delevinge is Enchantress. We’ll have more soon. http://www.slashfilm.com/suicide-squad-cast/ http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/official-suicide-squad-star-will-753470

By God, that's a big... carpet! Wow, amazing run!

Approaching 20% over GPA with a day to go.

You are assuming that there are HG copies of the 60 for sale. I could buy a handful of nice 54's in the next 2 minutes. The market is speaking rather clearly. Well, to be fair, 60 is harder to find in HG because it's a black cover...

In my defense, I was told there would be beer. Seriously though, if one side can't convince the other in almost 50 pages... probably not going to happen!

This thread is seriously devolving. Neither side is going to convince the other, so what purpose does this debate serve? It's just gotten uglier and more personal. You're both presenting the same facts over and over again -- to what end? You've all fought for your opinions valiantly. Stop piling on because it doesn't add anything to the conversation. Everyone take a break. Or let the thread die... Just a friendly suggestion to all.

Yeah, not much chance you will change your mind even if Robin came to the end of your bed this night and tells you his Teen Titans have come to save you from your denial. Even if he told you that the Teen Titans are 4 teens, and Wonder Woman is not in BB54 - so logically.... Even if he told you that the editor in Teen Titans #1 said that Teen Titans was only formed after they saw how successful the cross-over of three teen heroes was in BB54. Even if.. and so on. Looking at your signature with that BB54 CGC 7.5 it's understandable that you might not change your mind. Btw. love those 6 JLA's in your sig! Um, wow. It's a 7.0... and a photo of my BB60 is also in this thread a few pages back. Sheesh.

You are SO pandering to the whole bipartisan compromise crowd. You're welcome to stay on that antiquated wagon, but a change is gonna come my friend...the BB60 bullet train has left the station and it's coming for us all (complete with actual definitive statement from Robin, the Boy Wonder)! No more beer for you...

I'm on record here numerous times with my thoughts on this. Nothing anyone has said has changed my position that BB54 is the first appearance and origin of the Teen Titans. If someone wants to post something new I'll consider it. It's all really just a difference of opinions, and you know what they say about opinions... I would suggest new posters read the entire thread before contributing, as many rehash or restate the same worn out arguments over and over again without shedding any new light on the debate. It's a good read with many interesting points made on both sides. But no one has delivered a definitive statement on either side, so I'll continue to be on the BB54 wagon, as it is the current and currently correct title for Teen Titans first appearance and origin. (Picks up mic and carefully places it back in the stand).

Nice copy!

Then you would be ignoring the publishing history, the actual storyline, and decades of opposing opinion... to what end? I'm ignoring comics history? Did you even see the picture from Teen Titans posted above by Ferdelance? It is clear that the rumour spread for several years that BB54 was the first appearance. Just like Hulk 271 is the first Racoon. Misinformation easily spreads. But if you go by what actually happened that says BB60. Misinformation begat misinformation. Attributing 50 years of professional opinion as misinformation is ridiculous. DC has stated several times that BB54 is the first appearance and origin. Are you saying DC is misinformed about their own property? To be fair, just because DC says its a certain way, doesn't actually make it true. You'd probably have to go back to the actual writer to the actual truth. Scenario 1: Bob Haney (or an editor) says, "Hey it'd be fun to right an issue teaming up these three characters." Bob writes it, and someone (editor or him) says "Hey we should team these guys up more in the future, build a team!" Scenario 2: Bob (or an editor) says "Hey lets start a team using these characters, lets make the origin story issue 54, and continue on in future issues" Whichever bosses/marketing type later made 54 the 1st app or origin may not have been privy to the original logic/decisions and made a judgment call. That doesn't make it true, just accepted as truth. And you know this as fact because you were there? You're speculating, I get that. But nothing you say contradicts anything I've said. It's all smoke.

Then you would be ignoring the publishing history, the actual storyline, and decades of opposing opinion... to what end? I'm ignoring comics history? Did you even see the picture from Teen Titans posted above by Ferdelance? It is clear that the rumour spread for several years that BB54 was the first appearance. Just like Hulk 271 is the first Racoon. Misinformation easily spreads. But if you go by what actually happened that says BB60. Misinformation begat misinformation. Attributing 50 years of professional opinion as misinformation is ridiculous. DC has stated several times that BB54 is the first appearance and origin. Are you saying DC is misinformed about their own property?

If 54 was never published, 60 would not have been published. That's a 'maybe'. It is, on the other hand, save to say that BB54 alone is NOT enough to call anything Teen Titans. 60... now that IS enough to introduce the Teen Titans - even if 54 never existed. Now - they might or might not have printed 60....without 54, but that is speculation. Do you actually know the publishing history of these books??? Read the excerpt from TT#1 above that directly links the two books together. 54 begat 60. I have both. You tend to get very personal when discussing this. I think you should try to keep that in check. Thanks. You can 'begat' from here till eternity... that argument leads nowhere because some earlier issue very often begat another. BB53 begat BB54.... It is extremely clear that DC got the idea to do a cross-over in BB54. They did not make them a team but more a cross-over like Superman 76. When they saw the huge success, they made them an actual team in BB60 with wonder girl (to appeal to girls too) with teen team. I lose my patience when it appears someone doesn't care at all about the actual history surrounding a title... if you're going to suggest such a sea change in the industry, I would expect at least a nod or consideration to historical events and the context of how these decisions were made to the comics we love. That's what separates the collectors from the speculators. If they weren't a team in BB54, why does the last panel in BB54 say the start of a new TEAM then?

Then you would be ignoring the publishing history, the actual storyline, and decades of opposing opinion... to what end?

If 54 was never published, 60 would not have been published. That's a 'maybe'. It is, on the other hand, save to say that BB54 alone is NOT enough to call anything Teen Titans. 60... now that IS enough to introduce the Teen Titans - even if 54 never existed. Now - they might or might not have printed 60....without 54, but that is speculation. Do you actually know the publishing history of these books??? Read the excerpt from TT#1 above that directly links the two books together. 54 begat 60.

(thumbs u The conundrum is how can you have the origin of the Teen Titans in an issue preceding their first appearance? If BB54 is their origin, they have to be a part of the story in that issue right? If I had to change the label, I'd change BB60 include "First use of Teen Titans name"...

Can we end this argument now? Robin, Aqualad, Kid Flash team-up in BB54. DC realizes this is a hit, add Wonder Girl and call them the Teen Titans (hence BB60). BB54 1st team of Robin, Aqualad, and Kid Flash. Prelude to the Teen Titans. BB60 1st Teen Titans. Both important. You like TT? Get both...and TT1 to boot. You forgot Showcase 59

When I said "you" I was probably talking more to the BB60 camp and less directly to you personally, but I appreciate you clarifying your position... As far as people weighing the evidence, they've had decades to weigh the same evidence presented here, so not sure a sea change will happen. The industry has had 50 years to come to the conclusion that BB54 is the first appearance and origin of the Teen Titans. If something new and definitive comes along, I'm sure it will be taken into consideration.

Sssshhh, it's going to be okay. First of all, I don't "act like" this evidence is new. I specifically say it's old. Right there in B&B 54 and 60. If you have a quote in which I "act like" those are new, please quote it. And I have also stipulated, from the start, that industry consensus gives the crown to B&B 54. Just as they did to OAAW 81 for decades. That changed and I think the Titans consensus will change, too. And while your use of capitalization is very impressive, it doesn't change the fact that traditions can be wrong and the way we determine that is by examining the actual evidence. If you have evidence of the Teen Titans forming in B&B 54, go ahead and share it with us. You're position in this is harder -- you have to create a sea change from the status quo. You have to take what is the prevailing opinion and convince the industry that you're opinion is better than decades of what has been heretofore presented as fact. I just don't think you've done it. Rehashing the same information that's already in the public isn't going to be enough. If you had something new, then maybe I'd be more inclined to listen. And yeah, motivation is a factor in this as well. Why change now? Why after decades of the industry accepting the fact that BB54 is the first appearance and origin of the Teen Titans are you trying to suddenly change it? I wish you luck, but for me personally, I'm not convinced.