Jaydogrules

The supposedly flagship book in the title is a complete fraud so that does lead me to believe there's probably a lot of trickle down fraud that is creating a false perception of demand for the title in general. It's not just "a couple" of auctions either. It is literally- literally- all of them. That's not to say that the actual show itself isn't popular. But like squarechaos said, whether or not that's "really" translating to the comic series, and to what extent, is very sketchy and very debatable. -J.

Really? The same 9.4 copy "sold"five times in a manner of months. And the same 9.6 "sold" two times in two weeks. No, that is not normal market behaviour. That is somebody (or somebodies) trying to create data points. -J.

I already did. Click the 9.4 and 9.6 "sales" for the 1:50 variant. The same serial numbers are repeated over and over, creating a phony impression of escalation in price. The same exact thing has been done with raw copies. There's no way to ascertain a true FMV for the book because virtually every "sale" is fake. I haven't even bothered to take a look at the regular cover yet, but Intoanother evidently has followed that book and found plenty of shilling there too. -J.

Total market manipulation. Look at the serial numbers for the grades 9.4 and 9.6. It is literally the same books "selling" over and over again. It's a complete scam. -J.

As usual you conflate apples with oranges with your own shill account RMA. -J.

Here is the most recent active auction. http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=122723560326&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565 It too has the identical shill bidding going on as every single other auction from this month. Same two shill bidders, 4***y (1) and m***v (52) artificially increasing the price, and apparently not a real bid placed on it after $500 (though I am pretty sure I've seen that w***y (1876) in the other auctions too, now that I think about it). No offense, but if you're still asking for more "proof", then you're simply denying the obvious and no amount of evidence will ever be enough. -J.

From time to time ? Yes. To this extent? No. -J.

This is not a trivial issue. Fake auctions create permanent fake data points that future buyers rely on to assess value and what to pay. Then those real buyers, acting in good faith, attempt to pay what they believe to be FMV for a book, thus creating a real data point. This is why auction shilling is a Federal crime with real prison time attached to it. These buyers are real victims, and they may not even realize it. No one is saying that Rick and Morty is the "only" title or book where this is happening either, nor is that the point. It may very well be popular and have a following. And?? I hear that Batman and Spider-Man are fairly popular too, how many barely two year old, easy to find and always readily available books in their titles are "selling" in shilled auctions for $1000-$2000 raw right now ? And I'm not just talking one or two funky looking auctions. I'm talking every single one for the month . -J.

The "context" is that the book is being shilled. That's not even debatable. The "context" is that its harder to find a clean auction for this book than a dirty one. Three of five bidders (over half) in the same auction, two of them with identical bidding history, who just so happen to all have 75-100% bidding activity with the same seller, on a book with a history of being shilled, yeah that's not suspicious at all. I'm sure I've barely scratched the surface of the rampant corruption going on with this title on ebay (one of the biggest marketplaces for comics). Shall I dig a little deeper ? -J.

Yes that auction also looks very shilled. http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=152705316025&showauto=true Bidder s***m (92) 100% seller bidding activity. Bidder h***o (82) 100% seller bidding activity. Bidder 0***A (547) 75% seller bidding activity at time of auction, and the under bidder. By the way Kev I was originally only referring to the originally linked set of the 1:50 variant "sales" as being a sham, not the entire series. But maybe I should look at some of the other books selling too. I do believe there is some interest in the series, but there is clear and present attempted market manipulation going on. I mean you don't even have to look very long or hard to see it. My question is, if demand really was all that intense, why all the shilling? It seems to me the only point of the shilling is to create a perception of an artificially high demand, and then unload inventory on those unsuspecting real fans at bizarrely inflated prices who don't bother (or know how) to take a look under the hood. -J.

Im glad that you have had a positive experience selling these books, but that doesn't change the fact that every auction I linked from this month was dirty. And when this book was "selling" for even $1k I linked auctions showing that those were also dirty. The fraudsters have just gotten even more greedy and are now trying to push it to $2k. At the end of the day, if the book were truly that in demand then there would be no need for these sellers to be shilling all of these auctions to high heaven. I can't help but recall when a certain ultra rare raw Spider-man variant sold for over $2000 over two years ago now. Boy did that cause an absolute ruckus around here. I'm talking not, one, not two, but three threads ended up getting locked behind it. Mind you, this was Spider-Man, and a variant that to this day maybe comes up for sale only once or twice a year raw (if at all). But man oh man, you just couldn't get a small but persistent group of naysayers to stop going on and on about it. And here we now have, a book that is not rare, with about ten raw copies coming up for sale in the last 30 days alone, "selling" nearly each and every time at or around $2k recently, in obviously dirty auctions....and nary a peep. The times, they do be a-changin'. -J.

Dude, seriously? If I can't be logged into eBay, for whatever reason, to partake in the usual last second snipe bidding and place an early high protection bid to ensure I am able to purchase the item, and I end up getting illegally shilled by a team of unscrupulous ebayers this is somehow something that "I" should be taking responsibility for ? Give me a bloody break. Shilling an auction is a FEDERAL CRIME under the Wire Fraud statute. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1343 So yeah, you may want to quit while you're behind. -J.

You're starting to sound like someone who is giving tacit approval to unscrupulous sellers who are defrauding buyers and trying to con the market. So let me fill you in on a little secret- SHILL BIDDING IS ILLEGAL. Regardless of what kind of bid the defrauded buyer put it in. -J.

Ah blaming the victim... Bottom line is, Rick and Morty is a sham. False FMV's created by shill accounts and fake auctions and even faker "buy it nows". ....The original eBay way. -J.

As someone who has made the naive mistake of putting an absurdly high protection bid on an item on eBay to ensure I get it, and then forgotten about it, only to see that I had been shilled all the way up to a couple of dollars below that absurdly high bid, I can tell you that that is unacceptable. A shilled auction is a shilled auction and those shills artificially raised the prices on those auctions. The book is a fraud and I would be seriously P.O.'d, and have been, when that has happened to me. -J.

No need to apologize Jimbo. Happens to me all the time. -J.

Everything you said is technically accurate. As is my statement that edge tanning does not necessarily have anything to do with the purported "page quality" on the label (see above). -J.

Thanks for chiming in with that nugget of wisdom Jimbo. -J.

I have five words for this: "shill bidding" and "blatant market manipulation". One of the worst examples I've seen of it in a long time. Let's have a close look-see, shall we? Auction 1- Item shill bid by bidder 4***y (1), and "won" by m***l (33) with 100% bidding activity with seller, only for item to be immediately re-listed. http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=122693287540&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565 Auction 2- Item shill bid (again) and "won" by bidder 4***y (1), who was one of only 3 bidders in this auction. http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=292251465774&showauto=true Auction 3- Just two bidders, and "won" by our friend 4***y (1), again. Other participating bidder is m***v (52).... http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=222651733202&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565 ...who also bid up Auction 4- http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=122669179821&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565 Auction 5- Once again, "won" by bidder 4***y (1). Oh and look who was the under bidder on this one too! m***v (52) again. http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=272844925942&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565 Auction 6- Look, here's our friend m***v (52) bidding up another auction again. http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=222629285632&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565 And these are just from the month of September. Sorry fans, but this book is as dirty as a wallowing pig's butt. I would avoid like the Plague. -J.

Wouldn't be surprised. -J.

If I can't see something I need to see in a scan, I ask for more pictures. Can a spine spontaneously split in a slab? I don't know, I've never heard of that happening. The rest of the things you mention, again, are visible through the slab. And at the end of the day, if a book has something that I didn't see or wasn't disclosed by the seller, and I see it through the slab when I get the book in hand, and if I don't like it, I just send the book back. Whereas I will never know whether or not that "PQ" on the label means anything unless I crack the book out of the slab and fondle it myself. -J.

These are all visible through the slab. And the vast majority of books that aren't modern, and are a 9.4 or below have graders' notes, and I will do you one better and say that many interior defects that are serious enough to impact the grade are actually listed on the label itself (in GA and SA). To suggest otherwise is pure nonsense. -J.

Yeah there are a lot of bluffers around here who will try to "talk down" a book. At the end of the day that tape won't mean jackand this book will go for a bloody mint. That's how it is for the mega GA keys. -J.

That's where graders' notes come in. And people judge book's structural grade all the time on here. That's the very premise of online auctions, we are buying based on just scans of the book and making an independent judgement of how the book "looks", relative to the assigned grade literally all the time. Short of a book being shaken to death in the slab, no, the structural grade is not likely subject to change, and even then, it is something that can be ascertained visually through the slab. You can't do that with "page quality". With that, I am literally at the mercy of whatever CGC decides to call it that day. Which is why I give it almost no weight in my buying decisions (barring "brittle", but on even that I'm hearing conflicting accounts and lots of dissatisfaction on how and when CGC decides to call an entire book "brittle"). -J.

1)Edge tanning can also be caused by sun/dust shadows and even foxing at times, none of which has any affect on paper suppleness (ie "page quality"). 2) The "PQ" on the label, while already loosey-goosey, is just a snap shot at the time the book was slabbed. Paper can continue to, or begin to lose acidity within the slab- or not. 3) The structural grade by a grader is subject to a visual confirmation by a modestly experienced eye through the slab, whereas the alleged "PQ" is not, as that is not simply a reflection of the literal "colour" of anything, but the suppleness of paper in hand ("page 'QUALITY'"). -J.