VintageComics

90% of the world probably doesn't know what the New York Times is but those that read newspapers do. It's all about context.

If the spend collecting time online, go to shows or collect slabs they probably know about pressing. If they live in their mom's basement and have no online access they probably don't.

Did you collect slabs? Have you stuck your head into a Facebook slab group? Most of those people can't even write a lucid sentence but they know what 'cleaning and pressing' is. It's relative. Everything is relative. But when it comes to slabs collectors (and even many non slab collectors) pressing is not a secret. And among slab collectors, it's very well known. It would be impossible NOT to know. As RMA said, pressers set up at shows, there are advertisements online. Heck, you found out after joining here. How is that for proof?

aha so MOST COLLECTORS dont know about pressing or care about slabs! The End You're moving the goal posts a bit. Those that care about slabs likely know about pressing. Those that are looking for a VG copy of ASM #84 to read probably don't know, don't care and never will. But it doesn't matter, does it? If someone runs a full page advertisement in a newspaper and you don't see it, is it the paper's fault you didn't see it? The point is this: It's not a secret and doesn't really run parallel to the story on baseball cards.

In the days before CGC, the phrase 'cleaned and pressed' commonly referred to comics given solvent cleaning, followed by the pressing necessary to prevent the cover from coming out wrinkled. And this is how CGC started using it as well, labeling restored books with the phrase on its original old purple labels. It didn't typically refer to dry cleaning and pressing done to take out dents and bends. We can go in circles but the fact is that people have been pressing books for as long as there have been wrinkles in comics. We all did it as kids. I used heavy things like encyclopdias which no longer exist except in a WW2 bomb shelter. When I grew a little older (maybe 8-10 years old), I used my mom's iron and even remember experimenting with the steam. Does that make me an evil kid? I definitely remember packing my books tightly in boxes so they wouldn't sag and even remember checking them so see if wrinkles disappeared over time. ----------------------------------- According to other boardies, pressing was done by Marnin Rosenberg who found the Pennsylvania Pedigree and Greg Buhr who brought the Recil Macon Pedigree to market - both back in the 90's. This was well before CGC was even a thought in someone's mind. It was before the internet. And while they may not have pressed every book, the incentive was there for more expensive books. There is just more incentive to press books now than there was 25 years ago because even run issues have become more valuable. So pressing is not 'new', wasn't done on only restored books and is not something devised by CGC.

But a collector still prefers the book WITHOUT the dent than the one with it. It's a curse.

Does your LCS sell slabs? Go peek into a Facebook group that talks about slabs. 'Cleaned and Pressed' is said so often it annoys me. It's pressed folks, PRESSED! Not 'cleaned and pressed'.

Take 10% off remaining books!

Taking offers on this book. ----------------------------------------------------- Take 10% off remaining books.

Uh, you might be misremembering. You quoted me and then I simply posted this: "You'll have to be a bit more clear because there's a lot of hyperbole in there" I was simply trying to understand how you drew a correlation between pressing (which is out in the open and something everyone engages in) to what the article was about (which was many things outside of pressing). If that's impolite then I guess you and I will disagree on what constitutes normal conversation. Um, ditto? How about sticking to the facts rather than the person.

There's a difference between 'asking for it being' a huckster and 'asking for it' when you dress a certain way. And people have trouble differentiating between Chuck being Chuck and Chuck being Bettie Pages, since Chuck has really been a sort of 'Bettie Pages' for as long as people have been reading his newsletters. Some people will just see this new era of Chuck as the old Chuck with a new way to grab attention. But again, I agree with you in principle.

Hey, I was one of those noobs once and got dogpiled on. Chuck has a long history of rubbing people the wrong way and it's hard to separate Bettie Pages from Chuck. They're still the same person. But I agree more or less on what you say about bullying over all. Certain personalities really open themselves up to it, though.

My childhood nickame was 'Mickey'. Since I was a toddler everyone in my immediate family (including my mom and dad) have called me Mickey and still do to this day. It's kind of like 'JR' or 'Buddy' translated (English is a 2nd language). There, now I've made another thread about me. Proceed.

Some noob appears yanking everyone's chain and you guys start an actual discussion around it. Or maybe I should

A proper conversation is a rare thing these days.

More - what are the words you used? - attempts to discredit someone. Is what is good for the goose also good for the gander? It appears so. Or you're just unable to stick to a polite discussion? More sarcasm (and hyperbole) More sarcasm (and hyperbole) More sarcasm (and hyperbole)

I don't appreciate being accused of hyperbole, particularly because I've been here long enough to know when these words are thrown around as an attempt to discredit someone. I also made it clear what my stance was on the subject, so before playing victim, let's establish the order and accuracy of who made personal attacks first. My post was pretty simple and pretty polite. You were drawing a parallel between pressing paper and 'squeezing it to within inches of disintegrating' (your exact words). That's not hyperbole? I simply asked for clarification. You lashed back.

I too have held this position that Joseph holds, and I'll tell you why. I picked up an Original Owner collection from far out West and that collection had less printing defects (on issues that are normally known to be rampant with printing issues) than issues that I normally come across. For example, the FF #48 was perfectly centered with well centered staples - something very difficult to find if you've been searching for a perfectly centered, well stapled FF #48. After seeing a run of mid 60s silver age books missing common printing defects I concluded that because they were early in the printing run (because they needed to be shipped West) the tolerances were tighter and less mistakes were made on the issues that were further from where the printing plants were. Now, this is ASSUMING that it's important to have the books on the newsstand ontime. If the books did not have to be on the newsstand on time, then they could ship them anywhere from the printing run. Was it important to have books in the UK and Australia on the newsstand on time? Typical travel time was something like 4-6 weeks by ship, wasn't it? If it was, then you could make the case that the earliest books got pulled for foreign markets, but I'm not sure it was so important to Marvel for the books to be on time in the UK or Australia. --------------------------------------------------- RE: Colors of inks - I'm not sure if this matters or not, because inks are replenished many times across the print run of a quarter million books. You could also make the same argument for machine tolerances of machines responsible for cutting and stapling. A good looking book could come from the middle of the print run when all the tolerances were reset and give the impression that it as from early on in the run. ---------------------------------------------------- Would it matter to me? It probably would. Just as the variant market has started recognizing things like newsstand variants, Canadian variants, etc as being more rare, I would consider the earliest printings to be more desirable than later ones if the foreign prints were proven to be the earliest off the print run. Also, I kind of like seeing UK and foreign versions, mainly because it's something different than the 1000's of copies of American versions I've seen. If you could prove that the UK or Aussie versions were earliest of the run, I'd probably value them higher. Also, I'd add that Joseph's history should probably be factored into his opinion.And that isn't meant as a negative thing. I would just be curious as to his experience and credibility.

I've been checking social media regularly but the books could be anywhere by now. I did have someone tell me that a lot of stuff moves on the Dark Web now. Don't know if that's true or not. Hopefully they turn up one day.

At the expense of being accused of trying to derail this thread and make this thread about me I'm going to stop talking about things that have nothing to do with the OP. If anyone wants to talk about the side stuff, I'm happy to do it in person or via PM. Sorry about the derail.

I never mentioned your name. You brought all the victim cards to the party. No, you didn't. You're a lawyer and much smarter than that. You took Hector's post about saying this thread has been 'Roy'd', a good hearted joke by Hector, as an opportunity to jump in and imply that I don't pay for books I put aside (which is not true at all). It's slanderous. So while you didn't name me, it's obvious you were talking about me by the reply in your quote to Hector. As far as playing victim, you are like a dog with a Pavlovian response. If there's an opportunity to call me out on something or paint me in a negative light you can't help yourself even though I've never every done anything to you personally. Keep on carrying on.

Why? I know who they are. They know who they are. And there are more than two, but it doesn't matter anymore. Except to you, obviously. Your disdain continues to shine in my general direction.

Not really. I'm sure someone will pay for it. That's the difference. Why do you continue to be an azzhat and ride me? Do you teach your children to bully people on the internet as well or do you justify it some way to yourself while being a completely different person to them? Are you saying I put books aside and don't pay for them?

It's all good. I've grown past it (as have others). I'm no longer paranoid but it was a real thing at the time. Some of the members even openly admitted it to me personally. But it's in the past and I no longer care although I do remember. I consider many of those people friends now, but it's hard to forget the past.

There's an irony in Jeff's position. I just had a dealer message me and tell me that Jeff used to supply this dealer with a show badge to purchase books. I consider Jeff a friend (and I think he reciprocates) and Jeff has also supplied me with a badge in the past. Having said that, each show promoter can do whatever works best for their show. The movement to prevent buyers from entering shows early if they haven't purchased tables is more a sign of the times than anything else. Comics have become big money and where there's money, there's more competition. There's competition at competing for collections both on and off the show floor. And so a business person does whatever they can do reduce their competition.