VintageComics

So smart you quoted it twice. I'm honored.

With the global awareness that comics are now valuable, I think that this should be something most people think about if carriers continue to underperform. Unfair and unprofessional? Sure. But you do what you gotta do...at least until there is enough of an uproar for things to change. I imagine if someone wanted to lead the charge with documented cases, a case could be presented to carrier companies in an effort to change things but it won't happen as long as people just vent on a chat forum.

That is some professional level trolling. Yeah, I figured the same. What most people collect sux. Park sux more.

I started an "Error" thread a few months ago. Not a fan of the new forum software, even this far in.

Not sure but we all know you do. And greggy.

I think it's also worth pointing out that mail service is a 'bulk' service and a certain percentage of failure is probably factored into the service. Millions of packages arrive properly but the few 1000's that don't make the news. Unfortunately, those few 1000's of mistakes were probably factored into the business model. If people want better, more accurate service it's going to cost more. Probably a lot more. This isn't a criticism of your post in any way. Simply a post to help people realize that if they don't want a single package lost or damaged mail service would be a lot more expensive.

Only a fraction from what I've noticed. And usually just for more expensive books. Most collectors wouldn't slab a lower dollar UK copy, right? But if you look up keys (this is a screen shot of GPA for ASM #1) you can see a couple of copies there (8.0 and 8.5 specifically)

Cool. I've never used GPA - is it any good? GPA tracks sales of all CGC related books and differentiates UK editions from American editions.

The werewolf by night 32 GPA for the one I just bought was the UK versions went for 80% of the US based on two sale average I had previously thought that the percentage had risen to 70 or so % so that seems to fall in line with my experience.

Which is why I don't understand the discussion about PMG holders which ONLY use the inner archival material with no outer plastic shell.

I've had terrible experiences with UPS and USPS here in Los Angeles. FedEx has been much more reliable for me. Certified mail is crazy expensive. On top of that I just had a USPS package refused by CGC that's being sent back to me. I assume it's for some kind of damage. I packed it myself and it wasn't even some flimsy USPS box. It was good old 200 lb test. Can't wait to see what happened to the box. Ah, the joys of collecting comic books! I find that all companies have their good and bad. For every Fed Ex shipment that there is a problem you will find a complaint for a mail carrier or UPS. But over all, my experiences with Fed Ex have eclipsed services offered by any other (although my local mail carriers have generally been pretty awesome as well). Most problems I've experienced are generally related to the person you deal with and not the company. These new measures with Fed Ex that CGC is taking though, first with not allowing redirect and now with Fed Ex shipments to California sound not only ominous in the grand scheme but also a band-aid symptom to a much larger problem. Where is the theft happening? At end user's door? Somewhere within the Fed Ex system? These are questions that if word gets out to the general public (or news media) will paint Fed Ex in an extremely negative light. If one of the world's largest couriers has such a problem with theft that a multimillion dollar corporation like CGC can't use them then that is a problem of biblical proportions that not only affects CGC but anyone else that ships items of value regularly. I'd be curious to know if PMG and NGC still use Fed Ex.

Are you asking why there are no rings around the edges of the note where the material contacts itself? Or are you asking why there are no rings on the face of the note where the material contacts the note?

The problem is that you are not clear, appear to be contradicting the Collectibles Society website and then don't clearly explain yourself. So from where I'm sitting, it seems that you don't understand? Or can you provide an example where a bank note is sealed in an inner, soft archival holder and then encapsulated within a 2nd shell? Because I can't seem to find it. Because the problem CGC is experiencing is happening where the inner and outer holders meet, inside the 2nd holder (or capsule).

That was my thought. And to expand a little, if a company the size of CGC who grade and ship about 250,000 books a year, doesn't ship to one of the wealthiest, most populated states in the US and probably top 2 for market share (for old automotive dudes, you'll remember that California was such a big market that they used to have their own emission standards that all Auto manufacturers needed to comply with, while the other states having a separate set) then there is probably theft going on that is sizeable enough that it would be worth local and Federal law enforcement to look into.

This is a scan of a PMG note from a Heritage auction from 2017. It looks like there is only the soft, archival material being used with no outer shell. https://currency.ha.com/itm/large-size/gold-certificates/fr-1200-50-1922-gold-certificate-pmg-gem-uncirculated-65-epq/a/3556-20075.s#

So the PMG website is incorrect, then? Or incomplete? Because even a Google search of the notes I've seen show only one holder. The CGC website clearly explains that comics are encapsulated in an archival well and then in a capsule. The PMG website doesn't. https://www.cgccomics.com/encapsulation/

I'm confused. From what I've read on the PMG site, notes are encapsulated in a flexible holder (the site specifically states not a hard plastic). https://www.pmgnotes.com/grading/encapsulating.aspx So it looks like notes only have one material around them and not a 2nd, rigid, outer holder like comic books do. Am I mistaken?

Grader's notes were always meant to be an internal dialogue between the graders to communicate defects that they thought should be noted so that each grader was on the same page. Grader's notes were not meant to be a definitive list of defects for the end user. Over time, CGC began releasing grader's notes to the public. Now the public expects them available for every book, and while the notes have become more detailed over time I still don't think they are exhaustive. Just one of the things that have changed over the decades as CGC has grown.

I do understand.

Yes, they replaced the inner liner material that they had used for 15 years. The inner liner material used to be Barex, but they moved away from it because it was becoming obsolete. For a while with the pressurized well, introduced in the spring of 2016, they used Mylar sheets with no inner well. Just pressure to hold the book between two sheets of Mylar. They replaced the two sheets of Mylar with an inner well again but I can't remember what it was made of (whether it was still Mylar or something else). The Newton Ring effect was present on both holders with the latest design - the one using Mylar sheets in the spring of 2016 and the replacement about 3 months later (around June 2016) that we currently still use. That's what leads me to believe that the new inner holder might still be Mylar.

I don't have a lot of experience with Pence variants but my understanding was that they used to be priced at half of their US Cents counterparts but that gap seems to be closing, likely due in no small part to the variant market expanding.

Because the 'Newton ring' effect is caused by the two materials specifically used by CGC to form their inner and outer cases when they touch each other. CGC seems to be mitigating the effect by adjusting the distance between the two materials / cases (and therefore the amount of pressure between them) but not completely eliminating it. It seems that the only way to go back to a completely (or mostly) ring free case seems would be to change one (or both) of the materials as it's the interaction between the two materials currently in use that causes the effect.

I'm going to close this thread so that I can move the books to another venue. Feel free to message me if you have any questions.

Time consuming? This is basic database with a simple query level stuff. They could build it and never have to maintain it. Similar to what CBCS does. It's just another revenue generator. The grading notes were originally never meant to be shared with the public and were meant for internal use by graders, so many old notes were shorthand. When you ask for notes to get populated (and they have not yet been done so) a grader populates them. Since about 2014 all notes are populated automatically when a book is graded but notes before that were not.