comicwiz

You'd think, after the amount of information compiled in this thread, and external to this site, with YouTube content, tweets by Paul Lesko, and the amount of books CGC itself has reported as being impacted (350). Added to this, the submission history of over 2000 books, spanning as far back as 2016, with the books I tracked from as early 2018, and the participation of at least 30-50 people in this thread alone, we would have seen something since December 2023 in the FTC's case search or the list of case proceedings. Then also consider this is just for the alleged "holder tampering incident," which does not include what happened with the lawsuit CGC filed against two former employees. Despite this, we have nothing at least from the FTC. Remember also that all it took was two collectors to report the defrauding of 316 cards, for a lower monetary damage amount than what CGC claims ($4M) for the the FBI to get involved: Baseball card collectors suspected rampant fraud in their hobby. Now the FBI is investigating. "The scandal started after a pair of online collectors began identifying and documenting cards that were allegedly improperly modified. They have identified 316 such cards, retouched by nearly a dozen “card doctors,” that sold for a combined $1.4 million. The four collectors who spoke with investigators say the FBI suspects thousands of additional cards with similar issues are still circulating through the hobby." Two collectors managed to get the FBI to investigate the card doctoring. According to my recollection, we've had at least a handful of people now, describing they have surrendered books and haven't been compensated. It seems to me there are choices here that could achieve the best possible outcome for those that are impacted as well as the greater community, and for reasons uknown to me, they are being overlooked, ignored and/or are not being utilized.

Sure, but there were more than plenty of posts - here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here - some providing specific links and instructions, and most directing those impacted to go to the Feds. Especially since they had already been involved in several other examples of fraud in other collecting categories, some of a lower monetary scale than what allegedly happened with the holder tampering. So the warnings were there from very early on. Why no one bothered to report it as far back as before Christmas, we'll never know.

Would it change your opinion at all if that person posting is an impacted victim? We have already had someone post on the boards about being asked to surrender books, one which will be treated "differently" because it's not on the impacted list, with no discussion on compensation. Is it that much of a leap for anyone here to understand that this manner of keeping people in suspense, and surrendering property, with no compensaton may only heighten grievances and hostility from those who wanted no part of this, but are being dragged into something that is being so poorly handled? Not to mention that many of us found ourselves parroting what turned out to be double-speak and falsehoods to make it appear people were going to be treated fairly and they aren't. To say nothing of the way people lurking and realizing how newly created accounts are going to be handled with suspicion are deciding to skip the hassle and are going to find their own remedies in dumping problem books. Between talk of settlements, and the continuing fact pattern of idle inaction from the party that should have made an example of the alleged bad actors, I know I've seen all I need to see from here to know what I need to do.

The almost exact same thing happened with me on a shipment from Mexico that got stuck in Texas (overnight service). They claimed it was being held in custom when their tracking clearly showed it hadn't even gotten to that point yet. I did get a full refund (over $500), but I think it caused an issue with the sender because they claimed the refund was going to come from the FedEx location in Mexico that shipped it out. So the guy who used that FedEx location was probably banned from ever using them, but that reflected poorly on FedEx as a whole because that's their repsonsibility and the mishandled package is on their system, not the small operator in Mexico.

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I agree. So in receiving preferential tratement, and then expecting things to be hushed when loose lips gather a foot, there's an unmistakable level of deniability modelled to the avarice of an alleged seller at the center of exploiting the reholder process in the most perverse manner possible - and the unwillingness to recognize the perversion is one thing, but boasting about it - demonstrates the ethos is the same. Banning any member for revealing this hypocrisy is wrong.

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There are a lot of questions I too have. Like, as I was passing through books from this stretch between August 2018 to January 2018, there were a number of books on the impacted list. How did these UNLISTED ones get missed?

I'm needing to circle back to these at a later time, it's quite the process to even find these. A far more extraordinary excercise to match to a donor. I was able to do it for some (Project Green to Blue). But that is the plan. Lots to still go through.

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Daredevil 1 CGC 8.5 - UNLISTED ⬇️ (NOTE: This shifts the timeline of alleged tampering further back to Jan 15, 2018) Over the past two weeks, I shared two UNLISTED books (FF 48 CGC 5.5 and ASM 300 CGC 9.8) and have continued compiling others. I continue to try to set aside time to work on this because of its significance, and would like to share the third UNLISTED today because I believe this is becoming even more important as events continue to unfold. Applying the same details on the retrospective and current comparabiles analysis for books impacted by this "holder tampering." The purpose here is to use this unlisted book as an example of how one might arrive at a valuation suitable for redress and/or compensation. While the serial number from the ComicVerify badge below is a sample, the data is live, and the screenshot takes you right to the sample appraisal and assessment, with notations, working links to diagrams, etc. Full disclosure, ComicVerify is an online appraisal service I began in March of 2022, along with an appraisal service called ToyVerify. It allowed me to streamline reports, and uses proprietary software I developed which helps accelerate the process of mining/discovery, recall, insight assement, as well as calculating comps using the desired valuation method, as well as offering real-time reporting, all accessible in a digital format (smartphone or on your computer). Certification: 1202031002 (NOT ON THE LIST) Daredevil (1964-1998) #1 CGC 8.5 Beginning first with the screenshot of the Cert for posterity: Based on the assessment arrived at, replacement value would be the method of valuation best suited to handle the market fluctuations seen from the time the book was sold in January 15th, 2018, and the current day, where consumers are being made aware of an alleged incident involving "holder tampering." Click screenshot below to visit the online appraisal for further details ============== Additional notes for comparison, review, and posterity: Sales history, this Daredevil 1 appears twice for sale, the order that follows is from the first appearance of this cert to the last: Cert: 1202031002 Daredevil (1964-1998) #1 CGC 8.5 302012634340 | ebay | Seller: potatochipman |Cert: 1202031002 [7/19/2016] | $5,818 282813660478 | ebay | Seller: alleged seller | Cert: 1202031002 [1/28/2018] | $7,363

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It's hard to tell with any certainty from the angle the pics were taken, however the simplest thing to consider is this. If they couldn't get the font/weight/kerning right on the label, that would be one hell of an accomplishment to have done it convincingly for the hologram. For that reason alone, I'm leaning on it being right. However, the coin slabs have had a history of holograms being knocked-off, it all depends on the parts used here. If it's just recycled holders from a crack out, then that hologram would likely be real. If it's some offshore sourced holder where they thought to include a knock-off hologram for their "slab-kit", then it's fugazzi.

It's not only font, but weight, cap height, kerning. All wrong.

Sure, you can spot this label from a mile away. Font/weight is really off, won't pass through a seasoned set of eyes, but I guess that's why it ended-up in a pawn shop. However, I want people to take a close look at that bind, especially the top left where you see reflectivity from the above lighting. That isn't some junky wrap. Then stop to think, if there's one type of book that gets targeted for repro wraps, which ones would they be?

Glad to see you back posting!

Steve has been a long-time, OG member here. I understand that when someone drops in and sees some of the discord that emanates from a thread, and a topic that exposes raw nerves like this thread has, that it's easy to draw parallels. The dynamics are complex, lots of history that gets overlooked, and despite this, the discourse has been for the most part civil. Although, it's impossible for someone lurking or not participating for long periods to see the full picture. Regardless, he does know about past scandals. His blog is the last remnant of the internet which documents the list I shared back when the micro-trimming scandal happened. What gets glossed over is that there have been some casualties to the ildle inaction from the grading company - people who stuck their necks out to "help" the community ended-up becoming targets. Some of us have learned from this, and recalibrated with our reasoning for sharing what we feel comfortable sharing. Money is a hell of a thing, it causes people to make terrible choices, and this is the common thread each of these scandals share. It would be more accurate to describe it as unfortunate that these types of things continue to occur, but it's the only chance the community has of staying informed, because the history of web evidence reveals we would otherwise never know the extent, scale or that the odds are not in our favour it is ever reported at all.

These are all really good observations and questions. All I've been able to do at this point is note everything I'm seeing, but haven't been able to expand on them as well for a number of reasons. The label observation you made is something I did note in my review, but I have kept those details to myself, and for later review. Being brutally honest, I wasn't pleased to see what @sledgehammer noticed last week, with the cert change being made on a book on the list. It puts me in a very difficult situation now because while I have culled an UNLISTED book list from the sales history of the alleged seller, I am concerned that in sharing these, there is nothing stopping CGC from possibly doing the same IF someone comes forward and says, look someone posted my book as being tampered, and rather than addressing it, they just change the cert. Despite this risk, I still am going to do my best to make time to share the UNLISTED books, it may be with time gaps, but I hope to get to them all. This is a task that is divided by needing to still go through thousands of records. Observations like you've made are a great help, and I would encourage you and others to try to compile those observations (and if possible) report them as you have, or consolidate them in a combined review of "impacted" books, as I've got to be over 20 books that I've shared thus far. These observations, along with help from the community to monitor any attempts to sell any of these UNLISTED books are why I wanted to share what I can, in the hopes that (keeping with what I said in the video) we as a community can try our best to stay ahead of this.

Thanks, excuse the repost of the vid because YT cut off about a minute and a half, which does cover some of the bit you had asked on:

Thanks! And my apologies, YT did me dirty on this upload. I ended-up with two clips. I didn't want to open my go-to editor, and wanted some quick upload action, and they somehow found a way to screw me on the clip by ending it a few seconds early. I was basically concluding to say that we need to wait, respect the legal process, and I thanked everyone for watching! Appreciate the sub!

I cover a bit of it here (edited, as YT cut off the previous, this is now edited to include the full version):

I ran that cert through all the usual suspects, no matches and nothing remarkable as far as the traits I'd use to tease out suspect books. The seller from that Jun 29 2022 past sale is located in Pequannock, New Jersey, so there's still some possibility it circulated from the perp(s) alleged to be at the nexus of this scandal. Without a preceeding appearance of that book, there's no chance it can be taken any further even if you go back to the eBay seller and ask where he got it from. Having a "donor" image is everything in proving swaps of this suspected nature. Below is the image from the original eBay listing:

The real CGC fanboys laugh at the facts.