comicwiz

Anytime, and FWIW, it's good you are doing these checks and noticing the things you are, and sharing them. It's allowed me to catch some things after going back and re-reviewing the data in my own research

It is on the list, that hyphen is a barrier to being able to intermingle/federate cert lookups with the 350 list, I have no idea why they had to use that format.

I think we need to be cautious about making any determinations or assessments of what the "tells" are for swaps. I know the custom labels have been touted as one, the grades (9.8's) as well, but the problem is that there's a lot of variability, and really wierd things happening with books disappearing altogether, including certs that vanished from books that seemingly dropped off the face of the earth. We need a detailed explanation and elaboration from CGC to answer your question.

Yes, that list is being compiled separately as I'm sifting through each record more closely.

ASM 129 9.0 that we notice a change when it reappears for sale date 5/20/2020 Certification: 1028057001 Beginning first with a cert look-up for posterity: Certification: 1028057001 Amazing Spider-Man, The (1963) #129 CGC 9.0 Cert: 1028057001 | 4/8/2011 | $735 - pic isn't great, but the sale was mined accurately to this cert, and you can see enough of the top edge, as well as the last five-digits of the cert to confirm ↳ Cert: 1028057001 | 6/3/2020 | $1,775 - this is where we notice a change of the book inside, most easy to ascertain difference is comics code stamp is cut off on the book seen in the previous listing from 2011, and when it reappears here, it's a full (no cropped) stamp, and overall, there's more head above the MCG banner (see comparison pics at the end of this summary). ↳ Cert: 1028057001 [5/20/2020] - $1,800 AddAdditional notes: comparison pics

Yes, I am only posting books on the list.

With the following example, an Avengers 57 CGC 9.4 has a different book inside the holder, noticed from the photos of the listing on sale date 1/15/2023 Certification: 0966088004 Begnning first with the cert look-up: Cert: 0966088004 | 5/2/2017 | $2,300 ↳ Cert: 0966088004 [1/15/2023] - $3,050 (Changes noticed here - easiest to ascertain: front cover - staple placement on front cover, colour breaking creases along top edge; back cover - namely, brown spot stain on back across from Rockwell on outer edge, heavy dust shadowing along top edge, and traveling along the entire spine.

Keeping with the title of this 374 page thread being about an ASM 252 9.8 that first alerted us to this "holder tampering incident" - while not a record sale in this instance below, we do have yet another direct to newsstand swap. Certification: 1257876006 Amazing Spider-Man, The (1963) #252 CGC 9.8 Beginning first with a cert look-up for posterity: Cert: 1257876006 | 4/8/2015 | $250 (No WP record is available - greyed out for this reason) ↳ Cert: 1257876006 | 1/6/2023 | $1,895 ↳ Cert: 1257876006 | 2/5/2023 | $1,425 ↳ Cert: 1257876006 [4/23/2023] - $1,951 - Here is where we notice a change from Direct to Newsstand

I appreciate that you mentioned this point. Very early on, when I was looking at the unusual trends/patterns from the sales history of these impacted books, I used the word that it looks almost like someone was trolling CGC. The words I should have used instead was the parading of an embarrasment of riches. When comparing it to scandals like the Toy Toni scandal, he had run that scheme with unused Palitoy factory cardbacks and blisters using a post-factory seal, and yes he got them through right under AFA's nose, but there were patterns I identifed (some were reassuring very early on in the scandal) that he didn't have the confidence and certainty of success. The reason is the staggered manner of submissions, sale patterns, and doing his best to cover his tracks. This is an extremely important point as we compare the trends/patterns in this incident. Even if we apply a "true detective" statistic to help explore this point, not even the most well-planned bank heists have a greater than 60% rate of success. When you look at the pattern of acquisitions (dates, amounts of books, in the same grade), the frequency of reappearance of the same books, and speculate on the turnarounds achieved between acquisition and changes we tracked, the amount of money and risk/reward had to be almost near certain. Not 60%. Not 70%, Not 80% or even 90%. I'm talking very nearly 100% certain this scheme was going to achieve the success and expected result. It's one thing to pull off a heist, because the percentages show it's a crime that doesn't pay. But there's also a percentage of unsolved and it's fairly higher than it should be, but the reason for this is because when it's pulled off right, the perpetrators don't go around showing off what they did, or talking about it with YouTubers, and certainly not flaunting it. The pattern that is unmistakable in this specific instance (and the graphic I showed of the amount of books broken down by year certainly reinforce the progression and graduating aspects) but these books appeared too quickly, too soon after, and often very visibly with high value attaintment, with the unmistakable signature of seeming to parade these record prices with reappearances. That is the red flag that drew me in instantly in, because even when I first looked at the data, I thought could these perps be that dumb? But I was partly wrong. It's because of how certain they were of pulling this off. REPEATEDLY. The only part about smarts, or lack theroef, is the parading is what led us to notice that something was very wrong.

That's a fair assessment. These two points however cannot be mutually exclusive. The vast majority of slab owners now own a holder design that has been exploited. And not just in one perverse way. The kicker is we will never know if it's an exploitation beyond a design deficiency, meaning we won't know the true nature of an exploitation of process or protocol that allowed this many books for this many years to pass through unnoticed. This is why it's shockwave and magnitude is greater than just the impacted books. These are the ones identified as having a clear line of tampering, as far as establishing a fairly clear chain of evidence, but even in these instances, there are books which have not been identified in the shuffle and flow of changes. This alone should have given people more pause to the scale and uncertainties, but when we began seeing some unusual developments with purging date of grading and removal of certs - this is when we should have become accustomed to considering the community's collective vantage point remains the nerve center to this expose. Without it, the trust people have in CGC would have remained the status of quo. Don't let the status quo be the way this is dealt with after the work put into exposing what we have.

I will say this much. It is extremely disappointing to hear people who I would have expected better from saying things like the reactions are overblown. Or that the scale has been 'overestimated.' Or, my favourite - that this list is the be-all, and that everything is fine here as long as we refer to this list. Which btw, keeps having both legit books and compromised books crossed-off, along with cert numbers being purged, AND grade dates being wiped. I have had to use some restraint in not posting the everthing is fine memes - the one most appropriate here is the guy using a vacuum to put out a fire. What exactly are they basing their assertions on? I know that from what I've looked at now since late December, the magnitude of this is difficult to forecast, and I've looked at the data that is being used by CGC. I also know that the "list" is not all-ecompassing. So what is with the charade?

Even Madoff's scheme had to come to an end

Don't worry about the "nothing to see here brigade" - they're role is to foment and create division and distraction. Some have no business even posting here based on their history, and with others, you can see right through their intent because money is inevitably the corrupting influence. They might even see the information I've posted here as a threat to their grabby pursuits. I don't even need to see it in their written words or parse the hidden meaning in what they write, I know their intent when they ask how I've been able to "spend" the kind of time on what I have, or that all that has been highlighted is exhasuting. Their miscalculations go beyond placing that much significance on a tamper-proof claim that has been disproven, in the most perverse manner imaginable, just look at the evidence compiled thus far. It extends to belieiving any one person can invoke that kind of change. Evolution seems to proceed not by design but by chance and serendipity.

Will make a mental note of that, when you come asking for help here.

Did somebody say McMens Rea? That doesn't go far enough - the patterns I'm seeing here, ranging from grade dates/notes, impossible achievement of time gaps between changes and flips, AND exact sale date matches on a string of books is the kind of coordination that 's akin to not only knowing who is working security at a planned heist, but right down to knowing the colour of underwear they're wearing.

Looks like there isn't any shortage of fun to be had - I'll see your July 16 2023 sale with Certification: 4220532001, and raise you another X-Men 266 9.8, that happened to sell on the exact same day (7/16/2023), and after it reappered in the second sale below (11/21/2023), we also can notice it changed from Direct to Newsstand. Certification: 2120143023 Beginning first with the cert look-up for posterity: 1) Cert: 2120143023 | ebay | 7/16/2023 | $760 - note: pics are small, but you can see the cert # on the back pic 2) Difference noted (changes from direct to newsstand) when it reappears for sale on eBay on 11/21/2023 | $1,725 3) Reappers a third time on eBay - Cert: 2120143023 [12/5/2023] - $1,680

why I was screenshoting the certs - we need to keep a reference before they get revised or removed.

I calculated 3 days on one of the Hulk 181's from the grade date to the time it sold. Which makes the change in grade date after examination even more frustrating, need to screenshot those certs for posterity and reference.

This shows methodical and careful planning.

2) Certification: 3805448018 - Amazing Spider-Man, The (1963) #238 CGC 9.8 Cert: 3805448018 [10/19/2022] - $3,650 ↳ Cert: 3805448018 | 8/29/2022 | $2,700 Beginning first with cert look-up for posterity: First appeared with sale from 8/29/2022 | $2,700 Different book inside (changed from Direct to Newsstand) is noticed with a reappearance sale on 10/19/2022] - $3,650

This is the oddest swap I've noticed to date. Two ASM 238 9.8's bought on the same day (8/29/2022), and sold on the same day (10/19/2022). 1) Certification: 4109535001 - Amazing Spider-Man, The (1963) #238 CGC 9.8 Cert: 4109535001 [10/19/2022] - $2,513 ↳ Cert: 4109535001 | 8/29/2022 | $2,700 Beginning first with cert look-up for posterity: First appeared with sale on 8/29/2022 for $2,700 Different book inside is noticed with a reappearance sale on 10/19/2022 - $2,513

@360flip sent you a PM

Pending review of scans - different book

Thought I'd connected a qualified to universal but they are different books.

The method being used is completely counter-intuitive to be able to track progress or developments on this impacted list. There should be no reason (I can't see this being indeliberate either, because someone planning out the books on the "impacted" list would surely recognize the issues this would cause) for strikethroughs to comingle books that have been reviewed as legitimate with those deemed compromised. They're calling it in with the reportfraud@ email in red notation: They're striking it off the list (we know from precodemonster he's been told it's compromised): Add this to the ever growing pile of things that make no sense in the the methods being used, not to mention the confusion this creates for those monitoring this list and/or using it to assess what's been impacted and what's been struck off the list (appearing prior to this, books that were determined to be ok).