Get Marwood & I

FONT VARIATIONS Here's the latest summary for JIM. I'll do TTA later in the week: My posts will quieten down a bit from tomorrow - back to work......

....and a great video:

Hi Steve, if you get a chance, could you take a look at this thread and see what you think? Early Marvel Price Font Variants I'm hoping there maybe someone in this thread who could help inform mine Cheers, Steve

Check out this old thread I found - especially the photos on page 5: Sparta There may be some board members here who could help us. I'll drop a post there.

The cents then pence white box hypothesis seems entirely plausible. However, do we know of any "non-boxed" pence copies? Different fonts: absolutely why? Using a very modern example, I understand WD no.1 has some cover text in black then white; both considered "first prints". Another inexplicable printing change (?) perhaps these are just anomalies / errors? CGC - with all respect I doubt they'll know. They call pence copies "UK editions" and I don't think anybody has ever noticed the font or indicia differences until you and I did. Isn't it ironic that our hobby has so much content expertise yet very few of us know much about the printing techniques of the past. The TTA 16 scans I posted earlier in this thread show a 9d without a white box Ewan. I don't expect CGC to know themselves, I'm more hoping that the thought that they might not know what printing they are grading might intrigue them enough to go looking. They must have hot lines to key industry figures that we don't. We'll see. I agree with you on the lack of historic knowledge though. I bet it's out there but maybe no one has asked the right questions. I'm always surprised by how little some in the hobby care about this kind of thing. I love comics. But I'm also really fascinated by how they were made and by the discovery of variations which pose the type of questions we're raising here. Many would say 'who cares' that there are different price fonts. I'm just glad I've found one or more people who share my interest. So keep posting Ewan !

I've sent a question to CGC via their 'contact us' link. Will let you know if I get a response....

Now understood - many thanks for taking the time to explain that So on balance of probability the boxed cents are printed after; not necessarily "2nd prints" (as we know them) but printed second... However, unboxed cents and pence have no such determination Yes, thanks aman619 for the further explanation - understanding the printing process really helps this thread. I tried to find a video on Youtube but couldn't find one that made it as clear as your description. Cheers. In pictures, based on this information, the three examples below show that the first 'no white box' 10c copy would have been printed first, then the two 'white box' versions second / third. So they could all be first print run copies, if the changes for the second and third copies were done at the time on the US presses. That said, if we look at the two below, and assume that they were done as part of the US first print run, why would they change a 10c price box to another 10c price box in a different font? The answer may be connected to which has a T&P indicia line, but I haven't got enough examples to inform this. If not, could it indicate that the copies were printed elsewhere in a country with cents as its currency (Australia / Canada)? They could have been sent the plain white box negatives and then added their own prices? Similarly, why would these two be produced as part of the same print run in the US?: Again, the prices are the same but in different fonts. I think we're getting somewhere with this one, but we need an industry expert to shed some light on it. CGC differentiate 9d copies when grading from 10c copies. If we say to them that two different font / price box copies exist for the same 10c comic, how can they grade and encapsulate either as a first print with this question mark hanging? I'm a UK based newbie - who could we pose this to at CGC for their thoughts?

Pizzazz inserts are also cool......

Go find us a printing press expert from the 1950's Gaz

Like bow ties, Bubblicious Inserts are cool. Both Newsstand & Direct ASM 245 had them:

I think need to be a little careful with the "first print" terminology, as we are still speculating - and I think it's very likely (common sense economically-speaking) that the comics were only printed in ONE original location, but exchanging different plates The are four variants identified Cents Cents box Pence Cents with UK indicia We will never know what order these were printed in - and to be honest, it could be different for different issues or titles, as is being discovered! So all first prints until we know better ? Secondly, I might be being slow, but I didn't quite understand the post about the box or no box, and why printing dictates a certain order? Take your point Ewan - it's because we're speculating that I was careful to summarise that the cents copy in your hand may be a second printing. You're not being slow - I don't understand the 'printing dictates a certain order' post either, and I wrote it. I must remember not to post when the wife is talking (at) to me. Seriously, I was trying to respond to the preceding post by aman619 who seems to understand the printing process and indicated that the presence of prices with / without white boxes around them could indicate a subsequent printing. Aman619 - please correct me! As it stands, lots of lovely variants out there and a whole host of questions.... Also, forgot to add, re the four types of variant in your post.......... Cents Cents box Pence Cents with UK indicia ...... for some issue numbers I've found font variations within their white price boxes and, similarly, font variations for issues with no price box. So the list maybe should be: Cents (two font types found) Cents box (two font types found) Pence Cents with UK indicia I'll put another table together at some point as a final wrap up to prove these types, then leave it at that and wait for a printing expert to stumble across this post. Maybe you could sense check the table for me so we're all happy that it's an accurate summary of what we've found.

I think need to be a little careful with the "first print" terminology, as we are still speculating - and I think it's very likely (common sense economically-speaking) that the comics were only printed in ONE original location, but exchanging different plates The are four variants identified Cents Cents box Pence Cents with UK indicia We will never know what order these were printed in - and to be honest, it could be different for different issues or titles, as is being discovered! So all first prints until we know better ? Secondly, I might be being slow, but I didn't quite understand the post about the box or no box, and why printing dictates a certain order? Take your point Ewan - it's because we're speculating that I was careful to summarise that the cents copy in your hand may be a second printing. You're not being slow - I don't understand the 'printing dictates a certain order' post either, and I wrote it. I must remember not to post when the wife is talking (at) to me. Seriously, I was trying to respond to the preceding post by aman619 who seems to understand the printing process and indicated that the presence of prices with / without white boxes around them could indicate a subsequent printing. Aman619 - please correct me! As it stands, lots of lovely variants out there and a whole host of questions....

Yep, some good points. On balance, there may not be a pattern we can lock down. The production approach may well have varied from issue to issue, title to title. I've gathered lots more examples, and they show just that - no pattern. The variations of price vs price font vs indicia data is all over the shop. Still, given that we have Cents copies without T&P indicias, and cents copies with differing price fonts and T&P indicias, we can conclude I guess is that: - The cents copy in your hand may not be a first printing - It may have been printed outside of the US - There are multiple variants out there for those that go into that sort of thing I may leave it at that, unless someone else dives in and says "! used to work at Thorpe & Porter / L Miller / The US printers and I can tell you that........"

According to the GCD, L Miller did 24 reprint issues of Gunsmoke Western between 1955 and 1959: L MIller Gunsmoke Reprints - GCD So they already had a relationship with Atlas who produced the originals and we can see therefore how that may have extended to importing the US originals as the scans I've posted for 58, 60 and 63 prove. I think these are one offs and Gunsmoke may turn out to be the only 'Marvel' title we find with L Miller indicias. Maybe L Miller had a go, given that they were already doing GW reprints, then T&P secured the importing rights for all 'Marvel' titles. I'll keep looking for other titles to see if L Miller ever turns up.

Thanks for your two posts - you sound like you have a knowledge of the printing process which is going to help this debate. I'm afraid I couldn't completely follow some of your points though as I'm not 100% sure what you mean by 'knocked out' etc. The trouble I'm finding is that every time I think I see a pattern, an issue appears which contradicts it. I like to try to break things down factually and then present options to prompt the debate. Take a look at this and see what you think. If you can tell me from a printing expertise point of view that X is not possible because of Y etc we may be able to get to a template that makes sense. Looking at my post for JIM #65, all three font price variants apperar to have the T&P indicia strap line so I'm not sure whether we can link T&P directly to any given font type at this stage All good fun!

This might be of interest. Check out page six of this thread for some Strange Tales price font variants: ST 75 76 77 Price Font Varints

Thanks for commenting - this post has two elements so far - Marvel Cents copies with UK indicia data and Marvel Cents copy Font Variants. I know I said I wouldn't add anymore today but here's three more: Do you or any of your contacts know why these separate versions exist? I can't imagine how they could all be first printings from the same US printing presses? Why would they change the font midway through if the price is the same? If they were done at different times, or on different presses, then which came first and does that mean we should be assessing one of them as a second printing? Could the 'white box' ones have been printed blank during the original run and then the price added later? Should I go and lay down in a dark room?

Font Variations Ok, last post of new stuff from me today - a table showing JIM #60, September 1960. This shows that there are font variations for a month other than February 1961 (re earlier posts). I have captured multiple examples of each and the 'White Box' ones are not stickers: I also checked multiple covers of JIM 66 and 68 and found no differences. That said, there are clear and evident differences in pricing fonts for the early Marvels I've posted so far and, possibly, many others. I won't hunt for any more just for now - there's enough here to make the case. What we need is an expert to explain why the differences exist and any implications. I for one would love to hear it. Hope someone dips in with some info at some point. In the meantime, let's speculate

Kid Colt Outlaw #97, Mar 1961 with T&P indicia: L Miller didn't get this Western title then..........

My Girl Pearl #7 Aug 1960 with T&P indicia:

On my GW 58, 60 and 63 all three L Miller indicia lines look like they're part of the original print. I think it may be just Westerns, as you say, as this follows the online info for L Miller. Here's a scan of Patsy & Hedy #71 - Aug 1960 - which is slap in the middle of the 3 GW dates and it's indicia has Thorpe & Porter: So this tells us that while T&P were importing Marvel originals with 9d stamps from May 1960, they weren't the only ones. L Miller were doing it too for titles that would become Marvel titles. Yikes.

Gunsmoke Western #58 May 1960 - 9d printed price and an L Miller Indicia: Help!

Woof! Real name is Steve. Hello Ewan. If the JIM 'wonky' font was caused by plate slipping, wouldn't other bits slip too? Odd that the copy I got the scan from was in Canada. Glad you're loving the posts. I'm sitting here with a pile of old beat up comics looking for anomalies. What else can we do on a Saturday?

Would you believe it, next parcel arrives and in it we have a Gunsmoke #60. Note: - 10c Copy - L Miller internal Indicia - L Miller cover stamp of 6d (when 9d was the price of the time) Google tells us that L Miller did Western reprints only but, as this copy and the #63 show, they clearly did US original imports too. So many questions. Why print an L Miller indicia line but not a pence price? Why 6d and not 9d? How does this sit with Thorpe & Porter being the 'sole importer of Marvel comics'? Marvels banner did not appear until Jun 1961 so maybe L Miller had a deal with Atlas (or whoever was in charge then - Atlas allegedly being defunct in 1957). So, subject to physical confirmation that 10c copies exist without the L Miller indicia line (see previous post) a new line for pence variant collectors to pursue. Good luck and patience will they need....

Thanks. It is definitely a newly discovered variant. But yes, has anyone got another GS no.63 to show the indicia pls? L Miller / T&P / Alan Class all shared printing and distribution resources over the 1950s and early 1960s. However, it is a good point. Unfortunately this is the only example I've seen so far - but I recall seeing stickered 9d cents comics previously. Here's a table for Gunsmoke Western 63, I ordered a cheap copy from a UK dealer and, as you can see, my 10c copy has the L Miller Indicia too. I contacted a US ebayer (DTA Collectibles) and they advised their 10c copy did NOT have the additional L Miller line. So, whilst I haven't seen a scan, our copies do appear to be variants. What is puzzling is that the date - March 1961 - is after we started getting 9d printed prices. Gunsmoke Western #58 has a printed 9d price so why would an L Miller 10c copy exist of #63, especially when T&P did the importing and L Miller only did repacakaged reprint titles? Very odd. I can't see any font variations though Ewan: