Get Marwood & I

Pizzazz inserts are also cool......

Go find us a printing press expert from the 1950's Gaz

Like bow ties, Bubblicious Inserts are cool. Both Newsstand & Direct ASM 245 had them:

I think need to be a little careful with the "first print" terminology, as we are still speculating - and I think it's very likely (common sense economically-speaking) that the comics were only printed in ONE original location, but exchanging different plates The are four variants identified Cents Cents box Pence Cents with UK indicia We will never know what order these were printed in - and to be honest, it could be different for different issues or titles, as is being discovered! So all first prints until we know better ? Secondly, I might be being slow, but I didn't quite understand the post about the box or no box, and why printing dictates a certain order? Take your point Ewan - it's because we're speculating that I was careful to summarise that the cents copy in your hand may be a second printing. You're not being slow - I don't understand the 'printing dictates a certain order' post either, and I wrote it. I must remember not to post when the wife is talking (at) to me. Seriously, I was trying to respond to the preceding post by aman619 who seems to understand the printing process and indicated that the presence of prices with / without white boxes around them could indicate a subsequent printing. Aman619 - please correct me! As it stands, lots of lovely variants out there and a whole host of questions.... Also, forgot to add, re the four types of variant in your post.......... Cents Cents box Pence Cents with UK indicia ...... for some issue numbers I've found font variations within their white price boxes and, similarly, font variations for issues with no price box. So the list maybe should be: Cents (two font types found) Cents box (two font types found) Pence Cents with UK indicia I'll put another table together at some point as a final wrap up to prove these types, then leave it at that and wait for a printing expert to stumble across this post. Maybe you could sense check the table for me so we're all happy that it's an accurate summary of what we've found.

I think need to be a little careful with the "first print" terminology, as we are still speculating - and I think it's very likely (common sense economically-speaking) that the comics were only printed in ONE original location, but exchanging different plates The are four variants identified Cents Cents box Pence Cents with UK indicia We will never know what order these were printed in - and to be honest, it could be different for different issues or titles, as is being discovered! So all first prints until we know better ? Secondly, I might be being slow, but I didn't quite understand the post about the box or no box, and why printing dictates a certain order? Take your point Ewan - it's because we're speculating that I was careful to summarise that the cents copy in your hand may be a second printing. You're not being slow - I don't understand the 'printing dictates a certain order' post either, and I wrote it. I must remember not to post when the wife is talking (at) to me. Seriously, I was trying to respond to the preceding post by aman619 who seems to understand the printing process and indicated that the presence of prices with / without white boxes around them could indicate a subsequent printing. Aman619 - please correct me! As it stands, lots of lovely variants out there and a whole host of questions....

Yep, some good points. On balance, there may not be a pattern we can lock down. The production approach may well have varied from issue to issue, title to title. I've gathered lots more examples, and they show just that - no pattern. The variations of price vs price font vs indicia data is all over the shop. Still, given that we have Cents copies without T&P indicias, and cents copies with differing price fonts and T&P indicias, we can conclude I guess is that: - The cents copy in your hand may not be a first printing - It may have been printed outside of the US - There are multiple variants out there for those that go into that sort of thing I may leave it at that, unless someone else dives in and says "! used to work at Thorpe & Porter / L Miller / The US printers and I can tell you that........"

According to the GCD, L Miller did 24 reprint issues of Gunsmoke Western between 1955 and 1959: L MIller Gunsmoke Reprints - GCD So they already had a relationship with Atlas who produced the originals and we can see therefore how that may have extended to importing the US originals as the scans I've posted for 58, 60 and 63 prove. I think these are one offs and Gunsmoke may turn out to be the only 'Marvel' title we find with L Miller indicias. Maybe L Miller had a go, given that they were already doing GW reprints, then T&P secured the importing rights for all 'Marvel' titles. I'll keep looking for other titles to see if L Miller ever turns up.

Thanks for your two posts - you sound like you have a knowledge of the printing process which is going to help this debate. I'm afraid I couldn't completely follow some of your points though as I'm not 100% sure what you mean by 'knocked out' etc. The trouble I'm finding is that every time I think I see a pattern, an issue appears which contradicts it. I like to try to break things down factually and then present options to prompt the debate. Take a look at this and see what you think. If you can tell me from a printing expertise point of view that X is not possible because of Y etc we may be able to get to a template that makes sense. Looking at my post for JIM #65, all three font price variants apperar to have the T&P indicia strap line so I'm not sure whether we can link T&P directly to any given font type at this stage All good fun!

This might be of interest. Check out page six of this thread for some Strange Tales price font variants: ST 75 76 77 Price Font Varints

Thanks for commenting - this post has two elements so far - Marvel Cents copies with UK indicia data and Marvel Cents copy Font Variants. I know I said I wouldn't add anymore today but here's three more: Do you or any of your contacts know why these separate versions exist? I can't imagine how they could all be first printings from the same US printing presses? Why would they change the font midway through if the price is the same? If they were done at different times, or on different presses, then which came first and does that mean we should be assessing one of them as a second printing? Could the 'white box' ones have been printed blank during the original run and then the price added later? Should I go and lay down in a dark room?

Font Variations Ok, last post of new stuff from me today - a table showing JIM #60, September 1960. This shows that there are font variations for a month other than February 1961 (re earlier posts). I have captured multiple examples of each and the 'White Box' ones are not stickers: I also checked multiple covers of JIM 66 and 68 and found no differences. That said, there are clear and evident differences in pricing fonts for the early Marvels I've posted so far and, possibly, many others. I won't hunt for any more just for now - there's enough here to make the case. What we need is an expert to explain why the differences exist and any implications. I for one would love to hear it. Hope someone dips in with some info at some point. In the meantime, let's speculate

Kid Colt Outlaw #97, Mar 1961 with T&P indicia: L Miller didn't get this Western title then..........

My Girl Pearl #7 Aug 1960 with T&P indicia:

On my GW 58, 60 and 63 all three L Miller indicia lines look like they're part of the original print. I think it may be just Westerns, as you say, as this follows the online info for L Miller. Here's a scan of Patsy & Hedy #71 - Aug 1960 - which is slap in the middle of the 3 GW dates and it's indicia has Thorpe & Porter: So this tells us that while T&P were importing Marvel originals with 9d stamps from May 1960, they weren't the only ones. L Miller were doing it too for titles that would become Marvel titles. Yikes.

Gunsmoke Western #58 May 1960 - 9d printed price and an L Miller Indicia: Help!

Woof! Real name is Steve. Hello Ewan. If the JIM 'wonky' font was caused by plate slipping, wouldn't other bits slip too? Odd that the copy I got the scan from was in Canada. Glad you're loving the posts. I'm sitting here with a pile of old beat up comics looking for anomalies. What else can we do on a Saturday?

Would you believe it, next parcel arrives and in it we have a Gunsmoke #60. Note: - 10c Copy - L Miller internal Indicia - L Miller cover stamp of 6d (when 9d was the price of the time) Google tells us that L Miller did Western reprints only but, as this copy and the #63 show, they clearly did US original imports too. So many questions. Why print an L Miller indicia line but not a pence price? Why 6d and not 9d? How does this sit with Thorpe & Porter being the 'sole importer of Marvel comics'? Marvels banner did not appear until Jun 1961 so maybe L Miller had a deal with Atlas (or whoever was in charge then - Atlas allegedly being defunct in 1957). So, subject to physical confirmation that 10c copies exist without the L Miller indicia line (see previous post) a new line for pence variant collectors to pursue. Good luck and patience will they need....

Thanks. It is definitely a newly discovered variant. But yes, has anyone got another GS no.63 to show the indicia pls? L Miller / T&P / Alan Class all shared printing and distribution resources over the 1950s and early 1960s. However, it is a good point. Unfortunately this is the only example I've seen so far - but I recall seeing stickered 9d cents comics previously. Here's a table for Gunsmoke Western 63, I ordered a cheap copy from a UK dealer and, as you can see, my 10c copy has the L Miller Indicia too. I contacted a US ebayer (DTA Collectibles) and they advised their 10c copy did NOT have the additional L Miller line. So, whilst I haven't seen a scan, our copies do appear to be variants. What is puzzling is that the date - March 1961 - is after we started getting 9d printed prices. Gunsmoke Western #58 has a printed 9d price so why would an L Miller 10c copy exist of #63, especially when T&P did the importing and L Miller only did repacakaged reprint titles? Very odd. I can't see any font variations though Ewan:

Ok guys, this is getting spooky. If you check the updated table below you’ll see that we now have 3 distinct 10c font variations for JIM 65. The tall font version has a T&P indicia line. No pence copy has been found: …and three versions of Strange Tales #81 - Pence copy, ‘Fat Font' 10c copy and ‘Tall Font' 10c copy which has the T&P indicia line: ….and here is the latest TTA 16 table. Three confirmed variants and it’s looking like all cents copies have the T&P indicia line. I have one T&P indicia scan for the ‘Tall Font’ 10c, 2 ebayers saying their Tall Font 10c copies have it, and one saying her ‘Short Font’ 10c copy has it: So it looks like Feb 1961 is a good month for variant collectors! Wouldn’t it be bizarre if we discovered that there were multiple printings? Pretty significant implications for keys I would imagine. I wish we had a board member who worked on the presses, or knows someone who did. There's enough evidence here to prove that something happened during the printing process, for this month at least. I'll keep digging - I plan to look at other months to see whether Feb 61 was a blip

Interesting thoughts. I enjoy the speculation, but until someone who worked on the presses comes forward that may well be all we'll be able to do. One theory I have is that copies may have been run off without a price plate in error, say at the start of the run. When this was noticed, a price plate was added and the run continued. Rather than destroy the unpriced copies, maybe they were hand / machined stamped with a different font stamp? When I look at the TTA 16, the 'tall' font looks like part of the overall print. The 'short' font looks like it was added. It's really difficult to tell without the books being in hand. Scans never do it justice. Interesting. In what way do you think some prices were added afterwards? Are you seeing something in the scans? I'd think on a print run of even 100k and I'm guessing the numbers were higher back then, that's a lot of hand stamping that would be more expensive than running the uncut sheets back thru the press's to surprint black prices. I suppose if the printer messed up, they might choose to fix it that way if Atlas had enough leverage to force the issue.. If you look at the TTA 16 images the 'Short Font' 10c looks less clean than the 'Tall Font'. It has slightly blurry edges which sometimes appear when you hand stamp. The Thorpe & Porter stamp was hand applied - that's never in the same place - so the size of the task might not be a barrier. It's all speculation though - I don't fully trust scans, and plan to look at every copy I can in the flesh. See next post!

Cheers - glad people are liking the thread. As it stands, they are two elements emerging: 1. Font Variations on US Cents copies (JIM 65 / TTA 16 so far) 2. UK indicia data (Thorp & Porter / L Miller) on US Cents copies (spotted by EwanUK) Font Variations: I have an updated table for TTA 16 but Photobucket is down so can't add it. I plan to keep looking and will build up a table of where this occurs UK Indicia Data: I have a Gunsmoke Western due and have asked some ebayers to check their copies. Will report back to see if any do not have the L Miller line I'll keep summarising in chart form when I get the time as it's easier to read. All good fun guys

Interesting thoughts. I enjoy the speculation, but until someone who worked on the presses comes forward that may well be all we'll be able to do. One theory I have is that copies may have been run off without a price plate in error, say at the start of the run. When this was noticed, a price plate was added and the run continued. Rather than destroy the unpriced copies, maybe they were hand / machined stamped with a different font stamp? When I look at the TTA 16, the 'tall' font looks like part of the overall print. The 'short' font looks like it was added. It's really difficult to tell without the books being in hand. Scans never do it justice.

Glad you like it Gadzukes. I only post the most obscure stuff I can find, heh heh. As it stands, JIM 65 and TTA 16 are the only font variants I've discovered so far but I plan to look much further into this. They may be one offs / unique. Keep watching...

Yep, my own policy is always that it remains unproven until I've seen it myself or have photographic evidence.

...updated summary for TTA 16 It's looking like all Cents copies include the T&P indicia line. If so, we're down to three variants only, and a question mark over why the font difference exists (if it is not related to copies run off for the UK market). I'll keep digging.....