PhilipB2k17

I am eying an otherwise nice looking early 40's Golden Age superhero book that is not from Timely or National. It looks like it is intact except for spine separation for some of the interior from the cover. 

What would be the max grade on this book? 

Yeah. It really ticks me off that these flaws on  modern books are given 9.8 scores. I also hate that golden and silver age books -- particularly mid 60's and earlier - are graded on a curve by CGC. 

On 1/9/2007 at 3:24 AM, tth2 said:

I thought it was absolutely fantastic. I still love the shot where he drives the sword through himself and through the monster.

 

It was definitely a victim of too much hype. Miller was coming off his hugely successful Dark Knight series (which was initially under-ordered, creating a sense of scarcity) and the print run was massive. When the fanboys realized it wasn't a typical superhero story, and the speculators realized they couldn't make any money because everybody and their brother had a copy, it failed to live up to expectations in the primary and secondary sales markets, creating the impression that it was a huge failure.

No. Ronin was Miller's first foray at DC. It came out 2 years before TDKR.

I had the original Perez Black Widow Marvel Fanfare run, and just bought up a second set cheap. I recommend picking them up if you can. Rumors abound that if they do a solo Black widow movie, that classic Perez story might be the backbone of it. I would also point out that there was a lot of "collaboration" going on as far as art and story. 

On 11/13/2015 at 10:29 PM, valiantman said:

I just read online where this book is heating up.

 

Hey. I just got my copy graded out at a 9.2, at it literally looks exactly the same as yours. You even have that little bindery tear on the bottom spine corner.

I have a copy, but I think the book itself is highly overrated.

I have complete sets of a few 1970's runs, such as Nova, Spider-Woman, Micronauts, Champions, and the original New Teen Titans run. I toyed with the idea of getting a complete set of Mystery in Space, just because I love those covers. (and am a fan of Adam Strange). But, its' very cost prohibitive.

It depends. I saw a supposed 9.8 Nyx #3 with spine creases like that. Maybe they developed from the slabbing process? I have no idea. (Ironic if that is what happened). But, I think modern books with that kind of paper and binding do not get downgraded fr it if it is minor. It's very hard to find a modern book that doesn't have some of that. They get shipped in boxes to comic stores, and the ones under pressure will develop those creases.

It's not "possible" trimming, it's probable. 

Unless you are going to bump it up into the 7 range, then no. It's not worth the cost. At most you'll go up half a grade, frankly. Your creases are color breaking ones.

The fly in the ointment for this topic is that those who had subscriptions to various titles got a newsstand copy in the mail. So, not all Newsstand copies were sitting around on spinner racks for months, or on newsstand shelves. I was gifted a 2-year subscription to the X-Men, and got a newsstand copy in the mail each months (mid-80;s) that I literally never read. and just bagged up when it came. Why? Because it came out a few weeks after the direct sales copy, and I bought that one the day it came out. So, I have a 2-year run of early 80's X-men with both a direct and newsstand copy. Both sets are in great condition.

Never thought that Blip would send people down a rabbit hole!

BTW, nobody answered my question about the 7-11 Marvel Giveaways. I also have some Kool-Aid Man ones, drawn by Dan DeCarlo. I'm guessing there are plenty of them out there, just not in great condition because they were not distributed in the direct market.

I saw that page offered on eBay a year ago, and the guys was asking for $ million for it. he probably assumes it will get Hulk 180 last splash page money.

 

I do think that it should do better than $100,000, though. That price doesn't shock me. It's the first fricking appearance of Daredvil, fer chissakes.

 

 

It is my understanding that Pedigree is very experienced in auctioning comic books, so I think they have the potential to become a viable source of art. But I am disappointed to see this auction play out so similarly to the last one. I'm hoping that Randy & Doug read this thread & address these issues internally.

 

Personally, I don't want to see an auction with marked up dealer inventory. I'd rather have a 30 lot auction filled with real items without reserves. If you want to make it more of an event thing, keep some of the marquee pieces (like the FF #23 splash) at crazy prices. But there shouldn't be more than a handful of lots like that per auction. Not if you want me to take you seriously, either as a seller or a buyer.

 

Believe it or not, I will be following some lots tonight. Not bidding, but following. The Allred Bats 66 cover is a nice example & currently it's at a buyable price. And that DD #1 page is pretty expensive at 90k, but I wouldn't be stunned if someone wins it. It's a real piece of comic history.

 

 

I would be stunned if someone won the DD#1. You're paying for 1 panel. Other than that you are just getting a bunch of gangsters sitting around playing poker. I'm not a massive Daredevil fan, but I don't believe that panel/page is considered a classic, it just so happens to be the first panel that the Daredevil appears on. $60-70,000 would be MAYBE what I think it should have gone for. The fact that it's at 90,000 and reserve not met tells me it should not sell.

 

I do enjoy another mess up by Pedigree (can they get anything right?). "Daredevil is considered the first Silver Age solo hero to debut in his own book with issue #1...further increasing the importance and desirability of this art!"

 

Apparently Randy has never heard of The Incredible Hulk, who was a solo hero, that debuted in his own book, with an issue #1.... in 1962!

 

 

 

Sure... it's the first appearance if you don't count Kirby's cover or the stet used for the first page made using Kirby's cover. So... it's Bill Everett's first Daredevil I guess?

The argument is that it's the first one - still in existence. Don't know if that's true, but if it is, then it's definitely the first appearance of Daredevil, still in existence.

But, I see what you mean.

Omg thank you. It's hard to break past the "this 70s hack (artist or writer) was a genius because I am familiar with him mindset".

 

Lots of high value art isn't that great when you strip away context so discussing the art's collectibility solely on its artistic merits or storytelling style misses the point.

Really deserving of a whole different thread, but yeah the 70s decade of comics and art, mostly sucked @ss. It's only nostalgia for those unlucky enough to be a young teen in those years that props the art up today (of course painting with a big brush here...there are probably a handful of exceptions).

 

Agreed. Every era had a good % of unreadable material, but I always thought the 70's stuff contained a far higher % of it.

70's Marvel stuff, in particular, had a lot of experimentation going on. That's why 70's marvel comics are so hot right now. This is the era of Starlin's Captain Marvel and Warlock, Warewolf by night, Conan, the creation of Ghost Rider, Wolverine and Moon Knight, the introduction of the New X-Men, the Death of Gwen Stacy, etc.

Later you had titles like Nova, that fantastic Micronauts book (with highly sought after Michael Golden OA pages), Rom, etc.

This was my wheelhouse.

The problems with Marvel in the 70's were inconsistent output, that required lots of reprint books, and filler issues, and missed deadlines, etc.

Jim Shooter, usually portrayed as a villain, came in and cleaned all that up and got the trains to run on time, and made the place profitable.

It's a mug's game, trying to peek into the future. So let me have a turn.

 

There are some really smart people on these boards and I usually agree with most of what they say, but not in this regard. I tend to be cautious regarding the opinions of those collectors who are heavily into GA/SA/BA artwork. They barely acknowledge modern OA, they rarely buy it, so they assume there can't be much interest in the stuff. Moreover, the interest there is must be about to fade because comic sales aren't what they used to be. Right?

 

Sure, but there didn't use to be graphic novels, either. My small town library adds new graphic novels to the shelf every week. Almost all of them are from new series. Brian Hibbs says it's graphic novels that keep his comic stores afloat. Jim Zub writes a terrific comic called Wayward, per issue sales are fairly garbage, but he says the graphic novel numbers allow his artist (Steven Cummings, great work) to focus on the comic for his livelihood. Mr. Cummings hasn't been able to do that in the past.

 

Unlike floppies, graphic novels don't get slabbed, bagged, or boarded. They're read and re-read, and a new collector is born every day. I know there's an audience for modern comics and its artwork; it's just not in plain sight. And, yeah, all of the old stories have been published as graphic novels, too, but it's the new collections that are ending up on my library's shelves.

 

Not that modern comics are as necessarily dead as advertised, either. Go to the Modern Comic Section on the Message Boards, you'll usually find an audience of viewers that's bigger in number than the comic boards for GA/SA/BA. Almost always.

 

I appreciate modern OA, and it's at the heart of my collection, even if it doesn't get much respect here. I think the artwork of the past decade is often better drawn than the standard-issue art of years ago and the story lines are frequently more intriguing. The more popular artists keep bumping their prices up and up...hardly a sign of a diminishing interest.

 

However, if you're only talking investment, buy the single best original Kirby page you can find. Chances are, the family won't sue you.

It's not just graphic novels. All the Digital purveyors have years of back issues. For example, Marvel is publishing stuff from the Golden Age on Marvel Unlimited right now, let alone the stuff from the early 2000s.

I agree with the stratification argument. There will always be a market for the top end stuff. But, you will see values become stratified. I think some of the current stuff (Trimpe IH pages, to take one example) are vastly overpriced for what they are going to be in a few years.

How much is a Blip #1 signed by Matthew Laborteaux worth? He was the US Pac-Man champion in 1982.

Here's an article that deals with the Kirby art issue from over 3 months ago:

 

http://www.pipelinecomics.com/the-mystery-of-60s-marvel-jack-kirby-original-artwork/

 

Never talked to this writer before, beyond exchanging a couple of tweets where he commented on the podcast. He pieced together everything in the article on his own. (By his own admission, it's all speculation on his part.) Not bad, as far as guessing goes.

 

He sent me a link when the article went up. I had forgotten about it and didn't check back...and missed the spirited comment thread that developed. Of particular interest are the posts by long-time dealer Hans Kosenkranius (Tri-State Original Art). Worth a read!

If this comes to pass, 3rd party signature certification on Original art pieces will become much bigger, as will seeking out signatures from artists. If you have an authentically signed piece of OA, the artist has literally and figuratively "signed off" on your ownership of it.

I saw that page offered on eBay a year ago, and the guys was asking for $ million for it. he probably assumes it will get Hulk 180 last splash page money.

I do think that it should do better than $100,000, though. That price doesn't shock me. It's the first fricking appearance of Daredvil, fer chissakes.

It is my understanding that Pedigree is very experienced in auctioning comic books, so I think they have the potential to become a viable source of art. But I am disappointed to see this auction play out so similarly to the last one. I'm hoping that Randy & Doug read this thread & address these issues internally.

 

Personally, I don't want to see an auction with marked up dealer inventory. I'd rather have a 30 lot auction filled with real items without reserves. If you want to make it more of an event thing, keep some of the marquee pieces (like the FF #23 splash) at crazy prices. But there shouldn't be more than a handful of lots like that per auction. Not if you want me to take you seriously, either as a seller or a buyer.

 

Believe it or not, I will be following some lots tonight. Not bidding, but following. The Allred Bats 66 cover is a nice example & currently it's at a buyable price. And that DD #1 page is pretty expensive at 90k, but I wouldn't be stunned if someone wins it. It's a real piece of comic history.

 

 

I would be stunned if someone won the DD#1. You're paying for 1 panel. Other than that you are just getting a bunch of gangsters sitting around playing poker. I'm not a massive Daredevil fan, but I don't believe that panel/page is considered a classic, it just so happens to be the first panel that the Daredevil appears on. $60-70,000 would be MAYBE what I think it should have gone for. The fact that it's at 90,000 and reserve not met tells me it should not sell.

 

I do enjoy another mess up by Pedigree (can they get anything right?). "Daredevil is considered the first Silver Age solo hero to debut in his own book with issue #1...further increasing the importance and desirability of this art!"

 

Apparently Randy has never heard of The Incredible Hulk, who was a solo hero, that debuted in his own book, with an issue #1.... in 1962!

 

 

Seriously, Blip #1 is an uncommon book? I have a copy in NM condition. Anyone want to buy it from me?

Also, how common are those 7 Eleven Marvel Collectors giveaways?

Comichron publishes the monthly comic book sales data.

Here's the data for November, 2016: http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2016/2016-11.html

The Top selling comic was Batman, which sold 121,000 units to distributors. I don't know what percentage of them actually were sold to readers/collectors.

Interestingly enough, the records for most comics ordered in a single month since 1997 (the year Diamond became the exclusive distributor) was August of 2016.

http://www.comichron.com/vitalstatistics/diamondrecords.html

So, last year was the strongest sales year for comics in probably 20 years. Take that for what it's worth.

The next couple of articles will be an introduction to OA collecting, then we'll commence with regular market reports and artist/collector spotlights.

 

Sounds like a great concept! Artists who I'd like to see spolighted: Eduardo Barreto, Emanuela Lupacchino, Terry Dodson, Dan Spiegle, Scott Shaw!, Joe Staton, Don Rosa, Stan Lynde, Leonard Starr, Jim Holdaway & Gisèle Lagacé (availability, pricing etc).

Let me add Will Meugniot to that list. Anyone who has some of his DNAgents pages knows you often get an extra special bonus pinup drawing on the back. I have a great double page splash of his, both with fully inked, multiple pin-up drawing character studies.

[font:Book Antiqua]

Great First Post and Welcome to the Boards.

 

Could you share pictures of your collection?

I would love to see the Buscema Splash..![/font]

 

Sure, I posted it at Comic Art Fans.

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=1360749

As someone who's been doing this for only about a year, here is some advice I have, for what it's worth.

The generic advice to "buy what you like," is correct. But what does that mean? The only way to really know that is to look at a lot of art, and get a feel for what makes a great piece of original comic art. Some people only want Covers. Others prefer splashes. Some don't mind the panel pages. Covers are invariably more expensive to buy, expecially the older, pre-digital era pieces.

I actually think panel pages can be pretty great, as pop art. There is nothing like original comic book art, with the panels and word balloons. That's what makes the art special, and differentiates it from other types of art.

I bought my first piece over 25 years ago at a convention from Sal Buscema. At the time, he was not regarded as a 1st tier artists, so I got a great title splash from him for an absurdly cheap price, which was the going rate at the time.

Now, Sal has a much great reputation as a great Marvel stylist.

I didn't start buying any OA until more recently, with that piece as a starting point. I don't have any other higher end pieces...yet.

I prefer the older stuff, with the word balloons intact. Ink on Pencil. That's real Comic Book OA, IMHO. I also always collect the comic its from as well. It's especially fun when you come across a page from a comic you already own, and remember reading.

I learned "values," initially by just following eBay auctions. After a while, you get a feel for what things are worth, and can start predicting how much they will sell for.

I also set a budget on how much I am willing to pay for a piece. I've lost a few that I really liked because I was unwlling to pay more than my budget, but the great thing about this hobby is that there are hundreds of thousands of pages out there. You will find another one you like eventually.

I like 80's independent comic books stuff. And, because the books they come from are not so highly sought after, the pieces tend to be reasonable. Even from bigger name artists.

But, what I've found as a rule of thing on OA, is that the artistic merit of the piece counts the most. It's a visual medium, and things that just look really great tend to command higher process, no matter who the artist is.

I'll take a great splash page by a lesser regarded artist over a really crappy example page by a "star" any day. And, both do exist.

Second, well-known characters tend to be more sought after. Spider-Man and Batman pages, no matter who drew them, are going to command a premium, generally. Not always. But, generally. Especially if they are good examples of the characters in action.

Sexy woman art also brings a premium. A sexy drawing of any female in a published comic book page will tend to draw more interest, no matter who the character is. This is a male dominated hobby, so that's just a fact.

Superhero stuff tends to get higher prices than other stuff, unless it's from a premium artist, from a classic era, doing horror or sci-fi or humor.

Pages from well known artists Comic runs for a particular character, or from key issues, will command higher process than general run books by lesser known artists.

Grail pieces for one collector may not be so for others. Some may think a McFarlane spidey-splash or cover is a grail. Others, like me, would rather have ANY Dave Stephens page, especially if it's Rocketeer. I saw someone was able to score one of Stephens' classic Alien Worlds covers recently and was consumed with jealousy. But, after a while I thought how great that piece was an appreciated it.

In any case, the bottom line is - buy what you like, but don't pay more for it than you can afford. Quantity can also be quality, if you have a discerning eye and buy stuff you really like. There are a TON of great, great, great less expensive pages out there. They are just not from key books, or by superstar artists. They are just excellent examples of the artform.

I do advise going to conventions and just talking to artists there, and buy from them directly if you like their work. But, folks, real Comic Book OA is going the way of the dodo. In 5 years, comic books will no longer have original pencils or inked pages. It will be all digital. So, the stuff that exists out there now may be all there will ever be.

I am not a fan of the digital stuff. The finished artwork is great, don't get me wrong. But, it's not the same as real ink on pencil. That's just me, though. Others may - and do - disagree! That's what makes this hobby so great.