MasterChief

For those intrigued by such things, here's the certification provenance of current high-grade copies of Marvel Comics #1. They are listed in order of original certification date. I came up short on a few data points, so if you have the info pls post it. Pay Copy Original Certification #: 0039512001 Grade: 9.0 Grade Date: 11/14/2001 Denver Copy Original Certification #: 0056429001 Grade: 8.5 Grade Date: 04/22/2002 ********** 2nd Certification #: ? Grade: 9.0 Grade Date: ? Windy City Copy Original Certification #: 0059391007 Grade: 8.5 Grade Date: 8/6/2002 ********** 2nd Certification #: 0071944001 Grade: 9.0 Grade Date: ? ********** 3rd Certification #: 1625297003 Grade: 9.4 Grade Date: 09/12/2019

Are these the same? I cannot validate the certification number for the 9.0 copy. It has been deleted from CGC's database. Marvel Comics #1 (Timely, 1939) CGC VF/NM 9.0 Cream to off-white pages

It looks like it had a piece out at the staple as a 4.0? If so, not sure how it got away from conserved or restored labels. I do think it looks pretty damn nice to begin with to be a legit 4.0 in general. Wanted to post this info last night but couldn't find it... Below are the grader notes for the BC#17 Church copy. They were included in a cliffs notes thread back in January 2006. IIRC, the grader notes were from the original BC#17 discussion that was locked/deleted. Boy Comics Edgar Church 17 4.0 0043270016 3 graders @ 4.0. Spine Wear, Possible Sub Crease, Edge Wear, 2 Centerfolds Detached. Boy Comics Edgar Church 17 7.5 0069391002 3 graders @ 8.0, 2 graders @7.5 Bend Mid-Front, Light Edge Wear, Light Stains Top of Cover, Light Finger print on Y, Cover Loose. Boy Comics Edgar Church 17 9.0 0721664004 3 graders @ 9.0, Slight Staple Tears, Shadow Top Back Cover

By the way... For those interested in such things, here's the second thread regarding the BC#17 alteration. IIRC the first thread was locked and then deleted.

The Boy Comics #17 transformation is an interesting study. The controversy it created was commensurate to that of the Mouse that Roared. But what was not understood at the time regarding its exposure is the fact that BC#17 was a member of a submission group that included nine other Church books. Books that were all acquired in late 2002, treated and recertified six-months later, and then liquidated a couple months thereafter at the same venue.

As a high grade GA collector I can tell you this issue that has been bantered around in other threads. It's one of several reasons I rarely buy newer label CGC graded books. While it may be relatively safe to apply the theory to old-label Silver and Bronze age books, the data suggests the institutionalization of manipulation began predominantly with GA books in 2002. And if memory serves, the second-generation label debuted in July of 2003 or thereabouts. Hence the potential for doctored books to be in old label slabs is a legitimate concern. Consequently, for like-minded GA collectors who dislikes the practice, the application of pre-acquisition homework applies.

I've been MIA from the boards for a couple years, since before the transition, so I may have missed something. But there are cases of old and second-generation labeled GA books transitioning from 9.4-->9.6-->9.8. That said, it's been some time since I've done any in-depth research on the subject, particularly when it comes to new labels, so if anyone has any leads shoot me a PM and I'll be happy to take a look.

Speaking of certificates... I dug up this old CBG Fantazia advertisement in one of the many file copy threads here on the boards. As part of the ad, Dupcak not only lists many "uncirculated" file copies and proof specimens, but he also includes the language used in his Letter of Certification verifying their Eastern Color warehouse origin. Interesting of note is that Dupcak states there are three different versions of the file stamp: rectangular, round, or triangular. The ad copy is classic Dupcak wordsmithing to entice collectors. I have cropped, resized and adjusted the ad from the original source to (hopefully) aid reading.

Question for old-time collectors or dealers... When was the first time a certificate of authenticity was used to validate the provenance of a comics find or collection? I understand Rozanski created a velum paper certificate to market the Mile High II collection at the 1985 San Diego Comic Convention, but who was the first?

Finally, the 20th edition (1990-1991) contains the last Dupcak billboard. It's the same hybrid copy of The Wall ad from the previous year. With the next Overstreet edition, he is nowhere to be found... Well... he did appear a few years later. Not in the funny pages, though.

Edition 19 (1989-1990) contains two Fantazia ads. A hybrid of The Wall ad announcing a new specialized service of "Assembling recommended investment portfolios." And on the adjacent page, a new WANTED ad... (no, not his 1997 Nassau County Correctional Center mugshot. )

With the 17th edition (1987-1988), Daniel $ Dupcak doubled his marketing promotion by placing two sperate ads. One on page A-177 (same copy of The Wall ad) and a new audacious advert boasting of his non-detectable restoration abilities...

Going through my copies of Overstreet from the 80s and 90s, it appears as though Dupcak may have been persona non grata from advertising in Overstreet with the 21st edition (1991-1992). From the copies I have, Fantazia placed ads in editions 16, 17, 19, and 20. The ads ended with 21. Not exactly sure when he started advertising in the 80s, as I'm missing editions 14-15, but I have the 13th edition (1983-1984) and he's not in it. The following ad is from the 16th edition (1986-1987). It displays the fabled wall of gold...

Here's the image of the auction with the certificate highlighted...

Yeah... that is a one-of-kind auction listing. It's the only one on Heritage. Kinda odd that the listing doesn't mention "eastern color file copy" or a derivative thereof. When you search on those terms or a combination thereof you get a lot of results, certified and raw. But that particular listing doesn't pop. At the time I stumbled across it in 2007 I was doing research into the alleged file copies. It was posted as an image in the 2012 thread to provide additional evidence that Dupcak masterminded the so-called Eastern Color File Copies, and to show that he (Fantazia) apparently provided a certificate of authenticity to validate lineage. I also posted an image of an original CBG Fantasia advertisement from 1991 in the same thread. It listed many file copies with some of the best advert embellishment ever written. Looking back now the image appears blurry and unreadable. So, here's the original scanned image in all its glory. It was sent to me by a fellow collector who had a hard copy of the actual CBG issue.

The so-called Eastern Color File Copy of ASM-28 has quite the history. In 2007 it was sold by marvelseller, who had a reputation for buying certified Universal and Restored books on eBay, cracking them out, and then subsequently reselling them at inflated grades. Often times advertised as two to three points higher than the former certified grade. Marvelseller’s history of buying and selling comics can be traced all the way back to August of 2003 when he went by eBay username aardvarkps. After collectors caught on to the questionable antics of aardvarkps, he changed his User ID and first appeared as marvelseller circa 2006. Below is a screenshot of the copy selling in December of 2007 as a "9.2 to 9.4." It was noted as being trimmed, but nothing about color touch. It went to a buyer who had a feedback of 1. Currently that User ID is not found on eBay.

Agreed. Severin's westerns have True Grit. Great book, Bob. Congrats!

Very nice, Thomas. I'm just hoping someday I'll own a real copy. And not this electronic version I posted some years back... http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=4774878#Post4774878

Just received from this exemplar of quality printing production from our very own djpinkpanther67. Many thanks, Thomas!

Magnificent book! One of only a handful to score 9.0 or better. Congratulations!

This just in...

Mitch, aloha Hope all is well. Howzit, Peter! Yes, life is good. I trust all is well on your end of the globe, as well.

Agreed. Unmanipulated, original books are best! Congrats, Barton. Great book, impressive sale. Even with that war chest of funds to work with, my bet is that you'll remain unable to finish your Picture Frame set.

And White pages to boot! Nicely done, Thomas.