MasterChief

Kinda.

Those self-proclaimed “nerds” make it sound like the Captain Marvel Jr. was graded yesterday by CGC. It wasn’t. It was graded over 20 years ago. I don’t remember them debating the assigned grade back in the day on the boards. Perhaps they did. But today, having been made aware of the book’s grade by an email question, they claim the assigned grade is a “CGC agenda driven news story.” The CMJ#29 is not the only 9.9 to come out of the Church collection. There are at least 2 others. And they were graded over 20 years ago, too...

Av 93 Av 94 Av 95 Av 96 MS2 TOD1 Fear 11 Nice job, Thomas! There is another PF cover Adams had a hand in. TOD#4 was initially labeled by CGC as Colan & Palmer art. But at some point, CGC changed their label art comments and now gives cover attribution to “Romita & Adams.” IIRC, the change was based on the Grand Comics Database which notes an Adams & Romita cover with the comment “Romita revised or totally redrew the Dracula and female vampire.”

Here's one of my Trolley's. Purchased directly from Rosenberg...

Yeah, claiming something is a pedigree based on one cursive letter, seems the opposite of preserving provenance. Especially when there are distributor markings that are just one letter. I must have missed something. When was the Detroit Trolley Collection determined to be a pedigree?

This book is from the Bethlehem pedigree. Stamp on back cover is a dead giveaway. https://www.cgccomics.com/resources/pedigree/bethlehem/ Here's the Bethlehem copy of Adventures into Darkness #5. It's properly designated as a Bethlehem. Back cover has the stamp, too. How CGC missed the #6 as being from the pedigree is beyond me.

Here's a Trolley with the "L" that looks similar to yours. (Unfortunately, it's not my book )

That's a ringer for a Trolley. Nice book.

This book is from the Bethlehem pedigree. Stamp on back cover is a dead giveaway. https://www.cgccomics.com/resources/pedigree/bethlehem/

yea, the Trolly books had L markings... Detroit Trolley Collection is my guess, too. The "L" on the Sky Blazers #2 is characteristic of the cursive "L" found on the Trolley books. However, the Sky Blazers was certified in August of 2003, which predates the announcement of the Trolley collection find by 20 months. Also, Marnin Rosenberg sold the books raw with a certificate of restoration evaluation by Susan Cicconi. He did not have the books graded by CGC. That said, it's possible that this particular book found its way out of the original owner's assemblage before Marnin discovered the collection. I believe there were rumors that some books were separated from the collection before Marnin's involvement. Below is a link to the Scoop article announcing the collection. It's about halfway down the webpage and titled "Golden Age Collection Discovered." https://scoop.previewsworld.com/Search/Article?query=Golden Age Collection Discovered&page=6

For reference, here's a pic of the stairs leading to "King Tut's Tomb"...

Poking around on the internet this weekend and discovered the Church house sold again in 2020. This time the listing was accompanied with a virtual tour giving a glimpse into the interior of the home that contained the most significant find in comic book history. https://media.livsothebysrealty.com/public/vtour/display/1678789#!/play?id=59382708

This thread reminded me of the below... Anyone know what became of this movie production?

I agree. I don't like that we've lost the prior grading history for the book. Ditto. Using the same certification number for grading resubmission does not generate greater clarity in the historical record of a certified book. It does the exact opposite. It seals the record and obfuscates the certification provenance and the data points of previously assigned grade, page color, graded date, pedigree, label text, and grader notes that can be used for research purposes. As someone mentioned in another post, I don't recall the conspiratorial complaint of using new certification numbers for resubmissions. The issue was not in using new numbers, the issue was with removing the ability to search on and view old data for zeroed-out numbers. When that happened on Borock's watch, it added an enormous amount of fuel to the coverup theory as CGC took active steps to eliminate the ability to track certification provenance. That all took place during the manipulation debates of the early 2000s when boardies were posting before and after images and the certification history of worked on books. The below is just one of countless examples where one can see that using the same certification number would eliminate transparency and historical knowledge. While this book currently has two assigned numbers, picture for a moment if only the original number was used for the resubmission. When searching the certification database, you'd never know it was previously certified restored from the Nicolas Cage collection, and then sometime later regraded lower as certified blue with the collection notation removed (unless you were in the know or had the before and after imagery). IMO, the argument is not for using the same certification number for resubmitted books; the argument is to allow the ability to search on and view the data for zeroed-out books. Doing so would build back transparency and integrity that should be the cornerstone of CGC's business.

A little sleuthing. An 8.0 was removed from census. The church 8.0 serial no longer there, so had to be the church that upgraded to 8.5. Anyone could figure that out First 8.0 appeared in census July 01, 2001. Second 8.0 appeared in census December 30, 2014. 8.0 removed from census December 28, 2021. 8.5 appears in census February 08, 2022. When you run the Church 8.0 cert number (1072525001) the book pops as an 8.5 graded January 10, 2022. Same cert number. Apparently, the original cert number was used for the upgrade. First time I've seen that. In the past when a book is resubed, the old number is zeroed-out and a new number issued with new grade/label. Interesting aside, the color touch is identified as "Restoration" in the grader notes.

Calamity Kate?

I've been to Punchbowl Cemetery many times over the years to visit loved ones. It is a remarkable and beautiful resting place for our Nation's heroes. I highly recommend a visit when in Oahu. The next time I'm there I will look for Roger Armand Dumas. Here's a short video about the Honolulu Memorial...

Got a little bit of time yesterday to do more reading. Came across a piece that stated Roger first joined the National Guard (with mom's reluctant permission) then transferred into the Army. It also mentioned that it was Robert "who followed his brother into the Army and Korea to keep an eye on him", which, as you've presented, conflicts with the Heritage tale. Also, picked through the collection more and came across two books with marks I'd missed. Each with the apparent quick-whip underscore. Thoughts are welcomed... Oh, one more brainwave. Read a very interesting piece by the lawyer who represented Robert Dumas during his lawsuit with the Federal Government in the 80s. He goes into detail about witness testimony during the trail. In particular, the story of using maggots to treat Roger's side wound at Camp 5. Anyway, I found it admirable that he represented Robert "pro bono."

"One of my fears as a GI in 1965-1966 was to become a POW as I had lost faith in our government and military higher ups to protect us." --YouTube Commenter I'm only into the Dumas story a couple of days, not months like sfcityduck, and many, many thoughts and emotions are running through my mind. At this point, I'm not even thinking of the books or a possible Dumas connection. Only the whitewashing of a disturbing story. Being a veteran, with multigenerational family members who have served in the military and fought in combat (one of which killed during the invasion of Iwo Jima), I'm frankly dumbfounded, shocked, angered, and sadden to think that our government knowingly abandoned and left POWs behind. I'm still trying to process some of the things I've seen and read these past several days. The documentary film below, which tells the story of Roger Dumas, was icing on the cake today. It left me bewildered and speechless… Missing, Presumed Dead: The Search for America's POWs By J. Carlson, March 11, 2006 Video Librarian Review Although America's armed services proudly claim that they "leave no one behind" during battle—and for the most part have done admirable work in getting prisoners of war home—some people ultimately "fall through the cracks." Narrated by Ed Asner, Missing, Presumed Dead tells the story of Roger Dumas—a POW captured by North Koreans during the Korean war—and the efforts of his brother Bob in trying to get the Pentagon to even acknowledge that his brother is a POW. Despite overwhelming evidence that Roger was alive in the mid-‘90s, Bob Dumas is rebuffed at every step by officials at the highest levels of government, including some current senators who are blocking any negotiations with North Korea. Combining congressional testimony, personal interviews, and historic newsreels to backup the allegations here, this film—which features Senator John Kerry, Senator John McCain, Representative Bob Dornan, and others—is sure to stir up a sense of disbelief and outrage in viewers over the callous and even devious handling of some American POW cases. Highly recommended.

Poking around on the internet today and came across 1992 Congressional testimony by Robert Dumas concerning his brother Roger and other POWs. The lead in to his testimony begins at 2:19:50 with the closing of a contentious argument between Senator McCain and a witness, followed by the Select Committee Vice Chairman commenting on the discussion and then asking who wants to go next. Bob immediately shoots his arm in the air as if saying "I got something to say!" That begins at 2:32:19. The Dumas testimony is mesmerizing and, at times, chilling. The portrait he paints with his Northeastern accent breathes life into the story. ************** NOVEMBER 11, 1992 Soviet Involvement with Vietnam POW/MIA's Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs heard from a panel of American representatives of the U.S.-Russian Joint Commission on POWs and a panel of POW family members during the afternoon session of the second day of hearings on POWs from the Korean War and the Cold War.

Appreciate the response. It's plausible that the last letter fragment is a cursive "D" followed by a perceptible period mark. Thus, the inscription would read "This book belongs to Jean D." Cursive hand writing taught to primary school students in the 1920s - 1940s followed the Palmer Method, which gained prominence in the early 20th century. That method fell out of favor in the 1950s for other penmanship methods. Below are two pages from the Palmer's Guide to Business Writing taken from the Library of Congress. The inside front cover and page 29, which contains exercises for capital letters. They are followed by the Batman #3 original and enhanced inscription cutout.

Your study is fascinating and noteworthy. It is apparent you've taken the time to gather the data necessary to construct the framework for a persuasive presentation. It's the type of work rarely seen any more on these board or within the hobby. That said, and as a collector with a few of the Promise Books in my collection, I'd say the depth of backstory you are presenting is forming a fascinating aura surrounding the collection that, in and of itself, is capable of generating additional value of honored ownership. So thank you for your work. It's refreshing to say the least. By the way, do you have any idea as to the inscriptions on the following books? One is marked with "This book belongs to Jean..." (I can't make out what comes after "Jean") And the other has the word "Stange" in pencil with an underscore. Any thoughts would be appreciated. (FYI...I've tweaked the image cutout to emphasize the writing)

Yes, absolutely share. Your heartfelt research honors the memory of both Bob and Roger.

Just a quick follow-up on the post-auction buys (PAB) listed after close of the September Comics & Comic Art Auction #7246. As mentioned earlier, all 6 items listed as PAB have been removed from the site. It appears all OA that went unsold during the auction (4 pieces), and then subsequently listed as a PAB with the "buy now" or "make an offer" feature, failed to meet reserve during the auction. As suspected, the two Promise books initially sold but the buyers backed out. That said, there were a total of 11 lots that failed to sale in the auction. Not just the 6 offered as PAB. The other 5 items also appear to be cases of buyers reneging (or perhaps no one bid on them?). These items do not show reserves. Here are links to the OA pieces that failed to sale during the auction. Each lot lists a reserve. It's interesting to note that only the Frazetta piece "Captive Princess" was listed at the reserve price during PAB. All other pieces were listed over their respective reserves. Also provided is a link to all items not sold during auction #7246. Frank Frazetta The People That Time Forgot "Captive Princess" Cover Painting Original Art (Ace, 1973) Not Sold Reserve: $ 450,000 https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/frank-frazetta-the-people-that-time-forgot-captive-princess-cover-painting-original-art-ace-1973-/a/7246-91006.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 Dave Stevens Elvira's House of Mystery #11 Cover Original Art (DC, 1987) Not Sold Reserve: $80,000 https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/dave-stevens-elvira-s-house-of-mystery-11-cover-original-art-dc-1987-/a/7246-91026.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 Frank Frazetta Women of the Ages Portfolio Title Illustration Original Art (1977) Not Sold Reserve: $25,000 https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/frank-frazetta-women-of-the-ages-portfolio-title-illustration-original-art-1977-/a/7246-95036.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 Bernie Wrightson - Victor Frankenstein Illustration Original Art (circa late 1960s) Not Sold Reserve: $10,000 https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/bernie-wrightson-victor-frankenstein-illustration-original-art-circa-late-1960s-/a/7246-97489.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 Lot Items Not Sold During Auction ##7246 https://comics.ha.com/c/search-results.zx?N=52+790+4294940004+232&ic4=RemoveFilter-071515