BLBcomics-migration

hello, Thanks for the kind words re Katy. It has been a long four months since this SJS thing erupted on her. She is making good progress after haf a dozen stays in hospital since mid December. yes, re Topix, i lose an item here and there in my warehouse. I need a 40 hour work day to accomplish all I set out to get done. I do not think I know Matteo (though i might) as I first met Fabio along with Lucca Boschi at my first Lucca Italy comics festival in Oct 1999 where I had been invited as a guest under auspices of Alfredo Castelli to present the 1842 Obadiah Oldbuck USA edition to Euro comics scholars who did not know it existed. My talk was translated simultaneously in to Italian, French and Spanish. The three guys listed also brought about the thousand copy reprint which debuted at a 2003 Naples Italy comics festival. It was and remains refreshing to talk about the origins of comic strip books with nary a mention of "how much is it worth" marketing concepts one gets from too many USA people.

[font:Times New Roman]Again, the minutiae isn't what collectors find persuasive. Arguable facts tend to supersede tenuous theoretical connections if a strong enough foundation is laid. The success of the Yellow Kid and the development of Sunday color comic strips though Buster Brown, Little Nemo et. al., has a direct connection to the evolution of comic books. Obediah Oldbuck's contribution is much less obvious except as historical anecdote and from a marketing standpoint it's a tough sell. [/font] Huh? You are simply wrong and make no sense. Comic Strips in Books and periodicals in all their varied myriad formats have been evolving in the USA since 1842. Yellow Kid is not a comic strip - simply a large single panel ilustration to an accompanying text by Townsend - until its last half dozen apperances and presents nothing which is not already "invented". Simple Fact. Color? "Daily" newspaper comic strips now become not part of your equation. One must simply throw out all of the Cupples & Leon black and white comic books from 1919-1933; or to bring it in to more "modern" times, stuff like Zap Comics, Slow Death, on in to Cerebus, Elfquest, etc etc etc? All I have presented here are a few thumb nail sketches. You keep bringing up concepts of "....marketing standpoint it's a tough sell..." which makes me wonder your intent of replying to the snippets I presented in the first place. All three of the history articles as I worked on them inside Overstreet covering 1840s-1880s, 1880s-1930s and "Origins of the Modern Comic Book" have zero hints of marketing same for bucks. [font:Times New Roman]The early origins of the word balloon are relevant, but far less important than it's wide-spread use. It's origins are quaint, but it's implementation later on as part of a package that included sequential art and color was in response to a need of the expanding medium.[/font] Huh? The above statement makes no sense other than fulfilling a need by you to think refutation is important. What you wrote here makes no sense. [font:Times New Roman]Bob, that's interesting, but not ground-breaking, IMO. That could just as easily be a label on a mid-19th century tuna can. To get any context the entire book needs to be seen and evaluated.[/font] OK, have your tuna can fun. It is a long sequential art story. I agree, it needs to be reprinted and placed out for others to read. [font:Times New Roman]Interesting and quaint, but again, it doesn't provide any gosh-wow revelation for comic book origins. IOW, another tenuous connection.[/font] [font:Times New Roman]In desperation Bill Gaines tried to revive this in his Picto-Fiction line. Alas, the results were less than spectacular and suggest a failed branch of the comic evolutionary tree.[/font] Huh? Bill Gaines? Either sarcasm on your part or simply lack of seeing very many - if any, I suspect - comic strips from the 1800s. There are 1000s of comic strips in 100s of pubs from the 1800s. [font:Times New Roman]Very impressed by the depth and scholarship of your work even though I differ with you somewhat about it's direct relationship with comics as we know them today.[/font] I presented just a very few of what i have as examples here. So you "differ" in what way? The three presented are very much sequential comic strips as "we" know them today. Brings to mind on one level the format used by Hal Foster in Prince Valiant from 1937 onwards, a "comic strip," never using word balloons. And the one presented with out words at all, also sequential comics. Obviously, I did not address all of your "points" as some of your statements simply make no sense to even begin to attempt to understand actual intent on your part of where you came up with what you have here. My apologies.....

First off, am always unsure to whom I am addressing replies what with the use of alias monikers on these boards (as well as eBay, etc) as I simply "know" too many thousands of people over the course of 45 years doing this comics gig. Minor caveat point in that many a time I read thru a series of posts, reply to ALL of them at the same time, then some one thinks one of my thoughts is directed at them when many a time it is not. That said, on ward.... Theagenes is correct. I was only drawing a (to me) direct correlation between "late model" Dime Novels in format to the direct format mode of what Eastern Color and George Delacorte as partners devised with their second attempt at entering a comic periodical business and no other. He is equally correct there were plenty of other magazines being issued back then with identical type format presentation. My point remains I think Max Gaines' story of folding down a newspaper Sunday section to arrive at the Funnies On Parade/Famous Funnies format some seem to equate with being a "comic book" to be so much myth so he could stand out in the media hype of this supposed "new" invention of format. That is simply silly on the face of it Both the afore-mentioned publisher/printers were equal partners in Famous Funnies in 1934 as they were equal partners in The Funnies large tabloid size comics magazine which debuted in December 1928. While I appreciate the thought which went in to the post of DavidMerryWeather (aka "Cat?"), I also once upon a time subscribed to much of what he posted as that is what I also thought I knew to be proper historial context as "taught" in the earlier USA-centric comics history books such as The Comics by Coulton Waugh 1947, Stephen Becker's Comic Art in America 1959 and most all of the 1960s and 70s comics history books which proliferated. One can pin point to when the myth of the Yellowo Kid being first of anything was created in these history books. Maybe later I will post that time line. However, after much more extended research once the 1842 Obadiah Oldbuck was shoved in to my consciousness in 1997 upon reading a 1946 article on 1800s comic books by one Gershom Legman (yes, the 1949 Love & Death guy), I have expanded my horizon consciousness to realize that what I thought I once knew re "origins" of comic strip "books" was simply wrong. I tracked down my first copy of the first edition of Oldbuck by 1999, then took it to comics shows all over the USA as well as Lucca, Italy by Oct 1999 and Angouleme, France Jan 2000. Then in 2001 John Snyder, late of Gemstone, invited me to break out and create a "Victorian" section in Overstreet for the 2002 edition out of what had been growing in the Platinum Section we had beene expanding. I consulted with Richard Olson PhD, my then co-writer for the Plat stuff, and invited in Doug Wheeler in to the Victorian secrtion, who had a growing collection of 1800s comics material. We went to work indexing. I traveled around the country setting up at comics shows, then spending lots of time researching university & other "public" holdings of material in the days immediately after many of these shows, all at my own personal expense. The late Gabriel Laderman NYC had a HUGE holdings in 18th & 19th century American humor pubs, thousands of examples, of which his comics stuff was a more minor sub-set. I gleaned a couple hundred out of his collection alone I, also, once upon a time, tied in the Sunday Color-printed comics sections which cranked up in the 1890s, however, use of comic strips as a selling point in that sort of periodical actually dates back to the 1850s and was wide spread by the early 1870s with such pubs as Wild Oats among many others. One can check out how far I got in indexing Wild Oats for the Vict section of Overstreet. Word balloons keep getting brought up as some sort of factor regarding comic strips of the 1890s arriving at Sunday newspaper sections. That is a myth easily killed, but will not belabor the point in as much as I belabor the point CGC is NOT to be considered as some sort of "expert" in the "Tom" Reilly collection parameters, but I digress This is titled Finn's Comic Almanac published for 1835. Note well defined word balloons. Word balloons well defined date well in to the mid 1700s and earlier, but I leave it to others who are interested to hunt down easily found examples Here is a colored in title page to America's first home grown stand alone comic book dating from 1849: Here now are some American home grown examples of early comic strips. First up is the cover to Elton's Comic Almanac for 1853. and two pages of a longer comic strip story contained therein. Now, here are just a few of the hundreds of comic strips inside Wild Oats, an irreverant magazine akin to a National Lampoon of its day. This seminal weekly periodical, akin to a weekly Sunday newspaper, is incredibly rare. I have exactly three issues in my collection after more than a decade of fruitless searching. There are broken runs in a few institutions of higher learning. Not one of these places I found has even a near complete run. Lost is dust bowls of history, way too long over-looked by almost every comics historian seeking to impart "truth" as it were. I indexed what is in Overstreet about a decade ago now. This first example is by Frank Bellew Sr whom we aptly named "Father of the American comic strip starting in the first Victorian article in OPG #32 2002. Forget Richard Outcault and/or Yellow Kid being the first of ANYTHING. Frank Bellew Sr was hugely prolific doing many many hundreds of comic strips beginning in the early 1850s. This nice example dates circa 1873, I feel lazy right now, am devoting too much time here as it is from what I have to get accomplished today for my "real" life and am not looking for the exact issue number. Maybe later. but please scope out the detail in this wonderful art Now here is an example by Livingston Hopkins who also did wonderful comic strip work. This example dates to circa the same year 1873 or so. Hopkins moved to Australia some time later and became that country's premiere political cartoonist according to some history books I gleaned info about him. and this last example for today is by one Palmer Cox who some years later went on to create The Brownies. Outcault patterned a lot of his activities with Yellow Kid, but especially Buster Brown, on what Cox was doing with the Brownies. But prior to The Brownies Palmer Cox was doing detailed sequential comic strips. This example dates from 1875. This is a double page spread. He created many double page spread comic strips for Wild Oats The American comic strip prior to Outcault creating Yellow Kid has thousands of examples in hundreds of publications. I would think those who cling to their myths simply have not seen very many yet. For good measure am tossing in the cover to the 1908 The Three Funmakers which is the first "anthology" comic book published with more than a single character strip. This comic book is fairly scarce these days. I love it. Also, the Big Little Book was first introduced Xmas 1932. There are some one thousand or thereabout examples of BLBs published over the years even in to the 60s and 70s. To call it a failure of sorts is misleading I think. Was the format as successful as the comic "magazine" book some of you guys get slabbed in plastic? of course not, but the format was far from being a failure.

so, any one look at the Dime Novels i posted a day or so back and have any thoughts re "inspiration" of the "origin" of the modern comic book?

Yes, due to my brain being more engaged these days working on turning over vintage comic books & related graphics material, I can easily see where one could run with the foolishness of comparing characters, hands down, Superman "wins" any sort of contest world wide regarding that note. Again, an opine. Other countries might beg to differ with their national "icons" as it were. Tis the lithography technology being developed in the 1820s by German printers which is what I meant to impart. By the 1840s photo type lithography was being introduced. That also took a few decades to evolve into being able to print quality. Thanks for the heads up so i could clarify Regarding Superman #1, well, it was reprinted three times selling out a million copies there abouts summer of 1939. The super hero gold rush hits stands end of the eyar. re Max Gaines and "myth" inside Eastern Color in 1933 Here are a few "late stage" type Dime Novels which are slick covers, two side staples and pulp paper interiors. "Dime" novels originated so they say crica 1860/61. I have been pointing out the "Dime" Novel format connection off & on in my Overstreet Price Guide articles since my first one written Oct 1996 which was included in Overstreet #27 Spring 1997. There were hundreds of titles. Some astute funny book collector might even recognize 'recycled' titles with the last two pictured here now: NICK CARTER WEEKLY #645, May 8, 1909 BRAVE AND BOLD WEEKLY #243, August 17, 1907 RED RAVEN LIBRARY #36, Sept 16, 1905

Or perhaps he found that long lost bottle of pain killers, and the former demetia has set back in Please see clarification post re Olduck related to Action #1 was "periodicals" as previous post typed up in a bit of haste as a pile of "new stuff" scans were posting to Auctiva.com and then I had to begin posting in to eBay store. Already sold a couple of these "new" vintage treasures. Posting here in CGC Land is a hobby distraction from main task of connecting collectors to my humble wares. Ummm, just to set record very straight, pain killers were reluctantly in use 2006-2009 while i had disingegrating bone on bone hip joints. Hundreds of bone frags broke off digging in to meat. Pain was truly mind numbing... Post surgery Oct 2009 thru about Feb 2010 as well whilst doing the healing trip. After that, not one taken ever again. Ever. I value my brain. I am very much in tune with my body these days, working out in a local fitness gym, no wheel chairs < crutches < canes. Am slowly easing back in to jogging even which places some impact in to the hip joint area, still not over-doing in that dept, am in better shape now than I had been in 20 years. Weight now a trim 150 pounds, no High Fructose Corn Syrup and/or trans-fats for this body. HFCS i think to be the most evil drug ever invented by man. Could theoretically begin setting up at shows again, but I see 'the future" which is internet based world wide. I see shows these days of daZe as simply feeding troughs to score to place out on the internet inside.

I would have to go in to the Plat list archives, type in some key word search trips, re-find the 450 AD word balloon example(s) some one posted there about a decade ago now, then post. Will try to get to it next day or so. The examples were drawn on a wall dating to late Roman Empire period. The words were there with lines drawn around them with a pointed end pointing at who ever was speaking. The wheel is constantly re-invented, what is "new" is most always quite old, is how I see most "innovations" some generations seek to present. Anyway, the comic strip comic books have been around a ga-zillion years now. Obadiah Oldbuck remains more important than Superman. A collector dealer friend pointed out to me last night that I think he said it was on a recent Comic Connect auction which had a Flash Comics #1 sell for approx $70K that a number of Silver Age comics sold for more. The price of some thing has zero to do with its "importance" as an aercheological artifact. But that is all in the eye of the beholder and what one might deem "important" - just an opine from this dinosaur comic book dealer collector working in a hobby which got way out of hand a very long time ago now. Ah, AD, not BC. I missread. I'll see if I can track it down. Bob, on your second paragraph, I would very much agree that a higher monetary value does not necessarily equate with greater historical significance. I would also suggest, however, that being older or even first does not necessarily equate with greater historical significance either. So I would disagree with your statement that OO is more "important" than Superman, simply because Superman has had a far greater impact on popular culture than OO. OO is important and much more important than the character has been given credit for. And you should be given credit for bringing attention to that importance. But that importance is not due to one American bootleg version in 1842, but rather to the fact that it was one of Töpffer's more important comic strip works and due to his influence on the later European comic strip artists like Wilhelm Busch. You can trace a direct line from Töpffer to the Katzenjammer Kids, so there is no doubt he was an important pioneer. But to say OO is more historical significant than Superman is really over-reaching. Meant to type the Obadiah comic book ushering in "new" technology for comic books to be able to be mass prodiced in relation to Action Comics #1 as a periodical which was just one more of hundreds of thousands of titles and numbers of the same format produced over the past 170+ years, which places the proper wrinkle in my intent. re oldbuck related to Superman as characters of world wide importance, hands down, no possible argument could refute your statement which i see as a clarification of my intent. Way I see it the "famous funnies" news stand format which MC Gaines spoke of in his supposed "origins" of how Famous Funnies came to be created as a format is nothing more or less than late model "dime novel" of a slick cover, side stitched with two staples and a pulp paper interior. This BS he wrote about of folding down a Sunday comics section to get there is just that, so much BS. My opine. Which leads me to a little personal list I am sharing here re comic books of absolute time line importance, at least in the USA: 1) 1842 Obadiah Oldbuck - first comic book in America 2) 1849 Journey to the Gold Diggins Jeremiah Saddlebags - first original USA comic book directly inspired by Oldbuck 3) 1903 Buster Brown & His Resolutions - first nationally distributed comic book 4) 1938 Action Comics #1 - Superman ushers in a glut of comic books 5) 1952 Mad Comics #1 - nuff said 6) 1968 Zap Comics #1 - intro creator owned, royalty paying comics, - creation of the Direct Market when Print Mint took #2 plus #1 and #0 reprints "national" distribution

I would have to go in to the Plat list archives, type in some key word search trips, re-find the 450 AD word balloon example(s) some one posted there about a decade ago now, then post. Will try to get to it next day or so. The examples were drawn on a wall dating to late Roman Empire period. The words were there with lines drawn around them with a pointed end pointing at who ever was speaking. The wheel is constantly re-invented, what is "new" is most always quite old, is how I see most "innovations" some generations seek to present. Anyway, the comic strip comic books have been around a ga-zillion years now. Obadiah Oldbuck remains more important than Superman. A collector dealer friend pointed out to me last night that I think he said it was on a recent Comic Connect auction which had a Flash Comics #1 sell for approx $70K that a number of Silver Age comics sold for more. The price of some thing has zero to do with its "importance" as an aercheological artifact. But that is all in the eye of the beholder and what one might deem "important" - just an opine from this dinosaur comic book dealer collector working in a hobby which got way out of hand a very long time ago now.

I don't think you can lay the blame at Bob's feet for what that former boardie did. He was a one-man market drag as he overhyped his purchases so much. He didn't do a great job of defending his position, alienating many comic collectors in the process. And then he sold too soon after he acquired them. Had he bought an Action 1 and behaved the way he did, he might have taken a loss on that, too! I am moving past drama others choose to bring to the table. Their choice, I move on, I have been "given" another chance to "live" again, time is too short. My gig here is strictly comics history research sharing to teach those who might not know. Those dis/un-interested are free to move on with their lives. I know that is what I am concentrating on. As an old partner used to say, "We are up to today." I wish to stress the above description of how those Obadiah Oldbuck sales came down to be pretty much spot on. I did my "gig" selling the world's most vauable comic book and garnering nationwide media coverage when I sold that super high grade Reilly Detective Comics 27 to Burrel Rowe (Thanks to Richard Evans for correcting that typo, truly, i mean it) for $2200 in May/June 1973. I do not have the resources post medical scenarios to matriculate in that rarified world of today. I concentrate in teaching my customers buying comics from me what is inside the books. I feel fortunate I have been able to pay myself to be able to read comic books full time for over 40 years now

Hello jeff, Am acknowledging your posting of these incredible Egyptian glyph books. There is not agrument here, I agree 99.99999% on that consensus. Neat thing about Topffer's comic books, especially his first one in 1827 is that his were the first "mass-produced" utilzing the earliest aspects of (stone) lithography ie writing/drawing directly on to a stone from whence 60-70 copies could be produced. Every time he reprinted, he had to redraw his comic strip out on stones all over again. This is was I was told be Euro-experts on Topffer many of whom always thought it quaint many in America were psycho babbling about Yellow Kid for so long. ALL other comic strip books prior to, as far as I have been told by my Euro friends were we hashed all this out on my PlatinumAgeComics list begun by yours truly in 1999, were one of a kind things. It was the techno break through where we plant a "first" marker down. Kind of like Gutenberg in a comic strip book sort of way. This first American edition of Obadiah Oldbuck from 1842 fits most all the criteria one might bring up regarding printing formats, etc. Staples were not invented yet, they used string prior to. The 1842 Oldbuck first print is a bit less than Mad Magazine size. That said, I have all sorts of stuff on learning how to read Egyptian heiroglyphs. Fascinating stuff, I moved way past USA 20th century comic books as a "hobby" a long time ago, hardly anything left to learn in that department. re 450 AD use of word balloons, the examples Euro friends were showing on my Plat List, ie over on the visual aid yahoo list which I call PlatPics to archive beginning back in 1999 or so, there are words enclosed with "modern" looking word balloons. Uncanny, hope to bring samples here in a day or so when I have more time. And thanks for the kind words re Katy. She is coming back from the brink, there is still much to do in that department. Here's hoping to a complete recovery by summer, though we take it all one day at a time.

Looking up for air, came to here to CGC Land for a few minutes. Re some one believing what i say or not, some one made observation another person was referring to something besides research conducted on a wide range of comics issues far beyond pushing back the parameters of the origins of the American comic book. Well, i leave that concept to the one's whose opines I value the most, the so-far. so-good feedback in my e - Bay store where the bottom line resides what goes in to my bank account from satisfied customers many of whom are friends. Every one is entitled to opines, however warranted that opine might be. Now, main reason typing here now: have not read thru all the responses, but seems a (hopefully) short reply is in order on the note of the Obadiah Oldbuck sales from 2005 and 06 are in order. I did not solicate selling my copies I used to own right before my hip joints blew out. The money I did taek in from them went in to buying more comics research materials as I had learned all i could from the originals I had been fortunate enough to score some years earlier. Back in 2005 & 06 the real estate market was booming, agents & other middle men were raking in the loot. We all remember what happened next. However, prior to that, as I had been turning down eearlier offers as I was not in any need or desire to sell my three copies, this fellow came at me with offers I finally could nto turn down. $20K each for two nice ones, $10K for one with some ancient water coloring done in it. I was a relunctant dragon in this passion play. My only regret in when this occurred is my hip joints blew out the following year, and, well, what I went thru is now receding in the rear view mirror it seems, knock on wood, all of that. Here is some stuff on Obadiah Oldbuck which ran in the one thousand copy reprint edition my friend Alfredo Castelli of Sergio Bonelli publishers in Milan, Italy made up for the exact facsimile edition they mailed me 300 copies of, only about a dozen remain, they sold out years ago, my final 50 were stashed till i healed. Now, in the first line of this next page of an english translation page inside back cover which saw an identical Italian version inside front cover, they made a grevious typo, the 1887 should read 1827 Here is a scan of the original cover to the 1842 Obadiah Oldbuck which is one of the copies Steve made his offers on some thing I did not want to sell. and now we have pages 28 and 29 in chrono order from inside this original OO scanned from the Italian reprint. Tis a shame no USA publisher saw the importance of getting material printed on paper in to future generations. Ahhh, those Romans, they understand history better than Americans, it seems The first printing of Obadiah Oldbuck in 1842 in New York City has all the format pieces of wrap-around side-stitched, replete with six to 12 panels per page in one long story running a cover plus 39 pages, emphasis, one long story, a "graphic novel" of sorts. Topffer's creation directly inspired a comic strip book business in six countries in those first years after he began making his stories. This is from the first one. His later ones - six and an unfinished partial at the time of his death - got better and better as he made new ones. Rodolphe Topffer invented the mass produced comic strip book as we know it today thru a series of technical printing improvement evolution till we got to Famous Funnies in 1934. Even that does not look like the comic "book" magazines of today. But I digress.. Now, break time is over, back to work doing what I have done for 45 years now. Any one interested in further study really should join the PlatinumAgeComics list on yahoogroups.com and study the 30,000 plus posts archived there. Then you will know a healthy chunk of what I know regarding earlier comic books. Simply an accident of birth. I learned from a host of guys no longer with us, friends like Bill Blackbeard, Ernie McGee, others to numerous to list here, nor do I wish to bor eany one.

Over in a thread in this "Gold" seciton, Richard Evans sez not to trust my concepts on aspects of the comic book. I beg to differ, but that is my own humble opine about comics history research projects I have been involved with, and have even run "final say" inside Overstreet Comic Book Price Guide being invited back there over 15 years now. Noting there seems to be an over-abundance of lost comics souls who no longer use the incredible references in said august annual publication, a concept I can not fathom as one then does not have an essential tool for this hobby, here are scans of the first half dozen pages for your edification. Quiz is next Tuesday. Please note the upper right corner in this first section contains the earliest known English language comic strip published known to exist which dates to 1656 titled "God's Revenge For Murder" written by John Reynolds, artist remains unknown much like Jack Kirby remains to most of the adherents of the Marvel Universe these days 40 years after he left. Here we have the cover of the first American published comic book dating to 1842. Pictured on the next pages are America's 3rd comic book 1846 as well as George Cruickshank's 1849 clasic The Tooth-Ache which opens like an accordian On these pages are early American humor magazines beginning 1846 wherein aspects of comic strips evolved as well on the first hand side the very first original 'earliest known' sequential comic book dating from 1849 titled Journey to the Gold Diggins By Jeremiah Saddlebags. Have at it, hope you enjoy, learn a couple things along the way. My first "origins of the comics" history article appeared in Overstreet #27 appearing back in 1997. You might even consider purchasing Overstreets for each year especially #32 thru #40 as the powers that be held me to 72 pages those last few years before medical circumstance forced me to slow down. Hence, in order to place "new" data in the articles, other material had to be sacrificed on the alter. In order obtain a more complete over view of America's earliest comic books, one should read thru each article for a more complete evolution as well as a lot of differing visual aid as there are thousands of comic strips inside many hundreds of publications in using a myriad assortment of formats. All this talk of 1938-mid 1940s comic book "magazines" is some sort of "Golden Age of Comics" is plain silly. Click on my website address below where I cover the full gamut of American comic books from the 1840s thru to around 1981 or so. Scarce and obscure runs my wagon there, if nothing else, scroll some pretty rare stuff you might not see the rest of your life.

Hi pat, Nice to see you here. Thanks for the Blakes - Hoping to get out your way this spring, stop in say hi, catch up, unveil "new plans we discussed earlier, want to ctach up with cat up the street as well - the Blakes be cool, will tell Katy you be rooting fer her as well. Me? I am all healed these days of daZe and working out in the gym, prepping for possible marriage once again, we shall see. Hope you and yours all growing in life well & OK - surely has been an interesting last few months dealing with a semi-baffled medical community.

Thanks, guys, for the good thoughts towards Katy coming out the other side of the tunnel she is in, intact, and rebuilding positive thoughts towards the world at large. Truly, words written here from the heart....... That said, back to "comics reaility" for a sec or so, if one looks on page 316 of the current Overstreeet #42 one will see "God's Revenge For Murder" by John Reynolds, unknown artist, published in 1656 which is the earliest known English language comic "panel" strip created in the English language.It is a three tier multipanel "broadside" blank on obverse. Been running that 1656 comic strip in Overstreet since i found it for a few years now. Like i wrote previously, seems many do not "read" the dictionary either, simply looking up single unit factoids known as title, condition and price. the "origins' of the comic book some of us laid out for the rest of the comics community many moons ago now Some enterprising soul could scan that and place here if they are motivated altruisticly on some level. I simply do not have time right now. Maybe in a day or so for me to get to it. I forget how to place pics here in CGC-thread Land. Memory sez it involves photobucket, etc. Predates Blake by a century. Sorry guys, already way ahewad of youse all re researching the earliest known stuff. We covered Blake more than a decade ago in the PlatinumAgeComics group i started in yahoogroups.com in 1999. Over 30,000 posts to search thru there on the world wide origins of the comic strip with word bal'oon earliest known dating to 450 AD or so. Among other stuff if possible intererst caio, BLB

I cheerfully subscribe to the Dumber portion of that line. It was definitely dumber on my part to partake again herein seeking to impart data on the Reilly collection, what ever his first name might be. Please do not trust any thing i ever say regarding the origins of the American comic book or anything else. It has all been a hoax. The first comic strip in the entire world was is and remains forever more The Yellow Kid The first comic book ever produced in the world was in remains Funnies On Parade in 1933 and the very first "news stand" comic book was is remains Famous Funnies. Spine bends and corner folds remain more important than any other possible consideration on any comic book ever printed on the face of the planet Earth. Once it is slabbed encapsulated, who cares a Flying F what might be contained inside its pages. Now, on to a few clarifications of sorts: Re-reading last night what Steve Duin and Mike Richardson in Between the Panels on page 384-85 interpreted Mike Manyak psycho babbling about "how" they acquired what they did from that Berkeleycon 73 is a surrealistic trip. The books were not taken to some upstairs room, it was done right out in the open. It was not a "trunk", it was a lot of smaller size boxes covering most of a pallet on a pallet loader a UC-berkeley janitor provided the old couple. The old guy told me after I showed him Overstreet #2, and he had me look up Capt America #1 he sold them for $1 a book. Dr Arnheim was visibly righteously upset The "who" has parts correct. The Old guy Arnheim who had books was Reilly's uncle, but it was Arnheim's wife who was the actual heir. Death in World war two is correct, but an expansion there is a kamikazee attack summer 1945. the "dozen" titles a month is stupid wrong. Even CGC census shows more than a "dozen" titles involved. From 1945 thru Dec 1972 son Reilly's room sat untouched just like he left it when he went off to war. Later on in the Duin & Richardson write up, it merely mentions John Barrett and Bud Plant. Neither John nor Bud did "buy" the 2nd or 3rd portions. I did. John knew next to nothing about vintage old comic books. "We" did not "...trace down the other relatives..." Those relatives came to that first Berkeley store at 2512 Telegraph Ave Jon Campbell, a 4th partner let in to Comics & Comix in May 1973 confessed to Bud, John, as well as Scott Maple, it was he who stole those "150" Reilly issues the summer of 1973 among other shennanigans. Jon was following the 12 step program of recovering cocaine addicts where you go and confess your transgressions to every one I know this only because both John Barrett and Bud Plant each came to me at the 1994 Wondercon in Oakalnd to inform me Jon Campbell had confessed his sins to them. Both apologized to me that day. The Steve Duin and Mike Richardson article on pages 384-85 is a typical fairy tale with a little bit of reality coupled with a lot of erroneous myth. In the mean time, I hope every one has a great week end, am headed to dinner Katy is working on in her apartment as she struggles to over come what has transpired in her life recently. And I again thank each person who has bought a book or two out of my e Bay store this past week. Hope you like them when you get them and consider coming back often to dip in my comics well. Am constantly adding more new "vintage" material to it, Katy's recovery is expensive and is many more months to go yet.

yes, and I am not going any where near that price plus pay eBay FVF -

and then is that America's Greatest #6 on your want list in my eBay store. Just a thought when one is also forced into eBay FVF, one factors that in to final hammer on any given item, just for the record. My email is in my tag line elsewhere, i will come down off it if not inside eBay, not as much as I think it was you who just offered, but enough where i think we can "meet" on it - just a thought and, yes, i gave more for the CM 23 than $150. I do not always buy simply for resale, i love the comics all the way back in to their earliest origins. For me this is simply a hobby which got out of hand a very long time ago and apologizes might be due to the fellow who started this Port Yer Reilly comics thread what with stuff like Fantasy Masterpieces amongst other wonderful gems getting posted here. My apologies already tendered now.

Well, one dun got the entire funny book world all stirred up, especially that Mister Evans guy. Am going to lose tremendous amounts of sleep over what he thinks. I only responded in to this Reilly Thread because evidently a few years back I must have clicked on to being notified when ever some one posts on it. There is so much myth and misconception connected to its size and scope which is irritating at times when one considers younger folks who were not there, might not have even been barely born yet, thinking they know more about it than me. Names, places, that sort of stuff, I have sought to help out best as possible to supply what crumbs of gleaned data possible for those compelled to sort it all out. I felt the same way some years back sorting out data on other concepts in the comics world such as 1) What is America's first comic book? Answer: that 1842 Obadiah Oldbuck which one can look at aspects of here http://www.ebay.com/itm/OBADIAH-OLDBUCK-9-2-NM-1842-FIRST-AMERICAN-COMIC-BOOK-/390559064806?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item5aef2262e6 with a facsimile exact size reprint some friends of mine in Italy printed up a decade ago in 2003 plus one can read more about in in the Victorian section of Overstreet 2) concepts of Why Ditko (and Kirrby) left Marvel back in 1966. That is written up and one can read about what i think on the subject here http://blbcomicshistoryresearch.blogspot.com/2012/02/goodman-vs-ditko-kirby-by-robert.html'>http://blbcomicshistoryresearch.blogspot.com/2012/02/goodman-vs-ditko-kirby-by-robert.html and then click on to the Kirby Museum where it is presently housed. Soon I will have it inside my own blog spot replete with a lot more "visual" aid. To date no one has been able to knock a hole in any aspect of the research contained there in. But please do not "trust" anything there either simply because Mister Evans informs every one not to. Regarding http://blbcomicshistoryresearch.blogspot.com this is where I am going to be debuting a tremendous amount of primary research I have gathered the past 20 years when I set out to research the wonderful world of comics. Now that I have been healed going on a couple years, then got most of my stuff moved in to a 4000 square foot warehouse, have been sorting business stuff from research materials while realizing the internet is ultimate key to business survival, and that very few even "read" Overstreet any more outside of looking up prices. Akin to does any one actually "read" a dictionary. Once I figure out how to present the words and pictures in a well laid out manner, will reboot what is alrady there, what with Katy's SJS slowing down said process as most any endeavor boils down to "time" being able to allocate same. Back to your very public query: i will think about it. I might just keep it cuz I really like it. It finally dawned on me those are Japanese Americans seeking to escape an "American" concentration prison camp, or at least that is what it appears to me. This cover is outraegous to me for what it purports and implies. There are some 45,000 other items in this warehouse yet to scan and post for sale not yet in my eBay store. All I have been mentioning is if some one sees something they might like in my ebay store, please consider buying it. I am not seeking to wholesale "good" stuff. I get a lot of very low ball offers I reject daily. If Mac Raboy seems to be more your forte , there is also presently listed in my ebay store a Master 48 Raboy cover which also is the intro of Bulletboy plus Capt Marvel cameos in Minuteman. Neat book.

Just saw this from you as I am not tracking every post inside CGC boards. The listing ended its first 30 days last night along with a few dozen other comic books. They were all relisted towards midnight central standard time. The $300 "list" price has been on it since day "one" - the $240 was with a short term store wide "sale." When an item relists, it auto-reverts to the original first listed price. In a little while, will begin a store wide '"sale" again and one will see it at $240 again. $200 is my bottom on this book, I have plenty of others am turning over and most all folks seem to be happy with what they are paying and getting.

I learned very early an important lesson about eBay... No matter how sincere the seller's story or bad the seller's predicament, don't bother making a mercy offer on over-priced, over-graded buy-it-nows. [font:Times New Roman]Richard, you're a fee-losipher to be reckoned with! [/font] The other thing I've learned is to never trust anything that comes out of Bob Beerbohm's mouth. Yup, never trust any thing I write. That is why I was invited and continuously re-invited in to Overstreet every year since 1996 - over 15 years in a row and I believe still counting - to edit, compile the origins of the comic book for the Victorian, Platinum sections which I co-created including compiling the price indexes therein out of whole cloth, as well as the main price index section fronting and writing "Origins of the Modern Comic Book" - sure hoodwinked every one, eh? Please do not trust hardly anything of the data in those articles and/or indexes, simply because Mr Evans corrected a Bur(re)l Rowe name typed in this microcosim of a thread in seemingly too much haste late at night. I thank you for correcting such a grevious error on my part. I hope Burrel will forgive me if he ever gets wind of this. Lord knows no one has ever misspelled my name before. Just for the record, if any one cares, and to correct misconception tendered by Mr Evans, the pain killer meds were from 2006 thru 2010 which extended some months post surgeries. Last year and a half, in fact, working out at local gym, the personal nightmare written about becoming simply a memory in the rear view mirror of life. Directed towards some one else now, if one hits a long post from me, simply don't read it. I aplogize if some of this stuff is not easy to try to explain in short stacatto sound bytes. My last posts were amalgams of sorts towards several people at the same time, not one whole post directed at any one person, except the conversation re Captain Midnight 23, only because that was brought here, as it were, becoming "public" property to be bandied about by others which prompted wasting more time responding on some levels. I happen to think Captain Midnight 23 to be under priced in "Guide" based on what its - in hindsight - powerful cover theme. I do not think $200 unreasonable on any level. In any event, it will end up in a university research library before too long. Been kind of buried in some 80-100 orders the past week or so. I thank the responses of people who simply have bought a book or two or three. Katy thanks you as well. Have a great week end, Sincerely, Robert Beerbohm

Maybe some of you will learn one day "how" some aspects of eBay works: 1) list your item as Buy In Now Or Best Offer (which is what I do) 2) it is listed for 30 days 3) one can even make short term discount "sales" of various durations and scope. This CM #23 I listed out at $300 from day one. My norm is a 20% short term duration semi store wide 'sale" at which point I tighten up discounting further on many items I would rather hang on to it and enjoy for a spell, allowing for quite a few lower grade items to filter out many a time as "bargains" 4) at the end of 30 days, items de-list on eBay and then have to be re-listed 5) one can either "re" list any given item, or not 6) About 30 books "fell out" last night, this CM #23 one of them 7) this Capt Midnight was re-listed along with the other 30 or so books last night 8) OK, so I forgot you made a third try up to a paltry $150 - I get in many offers daily on the vintage popular cutlure artifacts I list. Hundreds a week from all over the world. Just like the "big" guys in the biz. Imagine that. 9) I had come down to $200 "help" you out - out of which i also pay eBay FVF much less a 'cost of goods' concept 10) I gladly paid more than $150 for this particular comic book - tis a powerful cover denoting Japanese Americans supposedly making an escape from a USA concentration camp - Have only had a few copies of this scarcer book in some 45+ years of doing the comics mail order gig. 11) have a great week end, one and all, have fun with your pot shots, get a life, and I know some just be teasing, - I am still standing and growing stonger daily 12) back to work I go once again scanning more books plus filling a steady stream of orders. I thank one and all for sampling my wares. Each order is very much appreciated. PS If one uses an android type phone in order to try to conduct eBay business, much of the data which one would see in a laptop or table top computer simply drops out - so eBay tells me. I have learned to tell when some one is probably using an android "smart" phone based on the query they might send in which is 999 times out of a 1000 already in the description data I pump in to every listing. Your android phone is simply not that "smart" -

This book just very recently scored exactly one month ago is the World War Two japanese concentration camp escape cover. Looks to be Capt Midnight stopping the escape of Japanese Americans from USA-run concentration camps. http://www.ebay.com/itm/CAPTAIN-MIDNIGHT-23-7-0-FVF-FAWCETT-JAPANESE-WAR-PRISON-ESCAPE-HIGH-GRADE-/390568210425?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item5aefadeff9 Your $120 offer, which i clicked no on, then you upped to $125, again I clicked no on, does zero benefit on some levels here after facoring cost of goods, eBay FVF, Paypal percent. I sell a lot of prime classic covers and issues to institutions of higher learning some call university libraries which this one falls well inside those parameters to the point OPG breaks it out as special as well. Due to my heavy duty research for a long time when I was hitting comicons all over the country mid 90s thri mid 00s in the years before the hip joints "blew" out in to the myriad origins of the comic book in many of these facilities including LOC, I know a lot of the archivist curators who are increasingly seeking to expand their library holdings in to special issues of this nature. This scarcer CM due to increased demand because of its heavy statement, if it does not sell for what i want in the short term for it to a "collector", first one I have had in well over a decade, falls neatly in to that category and will end up in a university research collection. Have already sent out solicitations to a few of these joints as their fiscal budgets provide for more spending this upcoming quarter. "...the 3 cents per item per month..." coupled with "...this item is alrady discounted via short term store wide sale ending soon, it will go away soon enough..." I email is a pat phrase I developed which almost any one who low balls some thing i consider special on some level receives. I simply cut & paste in to the replies. I sell Captain Midnights very well. Have sold every issue I have ever listed. This is the only one I currently have. I have now have 4600 items listed in that ebay store. There are another 45,000 more comics & such in this 4000 square foot warehouse yet to scan and list. My feedback on eBay sez I must be doing most things right re grading, pricing, packaging, shipping in to over 37 countries world wide now. One can click on to the map of the world at the bottom of every one of my listings to see where. I appreciate every order which has come in as I do seek to expand consciosuness that a bulk of the present cash flow is flowing towards healing Katy. She is very strong, a pride & joy in my life, is determined to beat this SJS thing, a source of inspiration to those around her, including myself. After six hospital stays since mid December, some dozen doctors in various specialties consulted, there have been some - a few - answers found as it why she has been afflicted so. Steps are being taken to try to insure a 7th hospital stay on this scenario never happens though we probably are not out of the woods yet. The phase being slowly entered in to now is dealing with the psychological damage this has engendered. One last thing" I thank once again the CGC thread Mods who allowed my posting of my eBay store stuff in that "Forum Only" thread to hang there a few days a month or so back. I did not then know or understand the rules of the road for that section at first, I do now, and the cash flow which came in then which went almost all on Katy's medical trip was much appreciated. Those of you who responded from the heart, my heart felt appreciation will never stop. I very rarely come in to the CGC forums any more for some years now, reasons extremely unimportant at this juncture, with the one main reason being an accute lack of time. Already I have spent too many hours typing up recollections of the Reilly collection for researchers here who deem it important in their life to figure out the proper back story on this "pedigree" designation it has earned rather than scanning more stuff and filling orders to those who sent in bucks. I hope consciousness has been expanded on the size & scope of the Reilly collection, the "what" it contained, whereas the "who" & "where" of it all will remain a bit murky most likely for ever. It has been "fun," guys. Take all the pot shots one wants, I am still standing. Now, tis back to the "real" world for me for a while again.

I found i did not address these parts of your post, my bad, and apologies: Almost ALL of my own personal archives from my earlier life in the comics hobby were destroyed in flooding of Best of Two World's warehouse flooding Feb 1986. ALL of my comics convention "stuff" badges, program books, flyers, etc beginning with my first comics show in Houston June 17 118 1967 onwards. Letters exchanged with Wertham in 1969/70, my letter from from Comics God Hal Foster, many others. I had saved/pack ratted the entirety of the comics trip from when i got my first newspaper clipping age 13 Feb 1966 about Leonard Brown when I first became conscious of comics being worth anything onwards. this included most all my photographs I had of up to that point 20 years in the comics hobby. I have been recollecting that archive best as possible slowly but surely ever since. I only have a scant few pics from the 70s of the comics stores I was involved with prior to Feb 1986. I am well aware of "fun" others wish to partake in, they lack anything else better to do with their time. I no longer feed in to such shennanigans like I think I used to. I went thru a pain induced mind numbing experience from 2006-2011 during which I seemed to have alienated a lot of people around me. I made a lot of mistakes inside pain induced madness. After HMO Aetna canceled policy mid 2006 much less already scheduled surgery citing "undisclosed pre-existing condition" my hips joints which had been evidently damaged ie cartilage crushed wearing out leaving bone on bone disintegrating with hundreds of bone frags digging in to the meat. It is what it is. Some kind soul I do not remember his name right now (and feel badly) with a Wall Street firm finally donated the lion's share of what it took to get both hip joints replaced same day in Oct 2009 out in LA. Mark Wilson (WA) set it up for the initial contact and I thank him as well. I have near zero memories of 2006 07 08 09 as the pain got worse literally each step I took. It is what it is. I am forever in his debt and thank this New Yrok peson profusely once again for literally saving my life. Now I am working on bringing my oldest daughter Katy back from the brink stricken with something called Stevens Johnson Syndrome. With hat in hand I ask any one who might care about her to buy

I have stated this many times over the years, including previous threads from years ago here as well as else where: there were duplicates of some issues - it was not all just single issues. There is a lot of data in what I wrote which has been posted this week as well as years ago for the edification for those of you obsessed with this collection who are williling to pay big bucks for copies from it. Actually, both the above Batman and the one in my ebay store look to be from the same part of the print run. The binding cuts and fold are almost spot on the same as both are slightly miscut. Same brilliance of the colors. Both have perfect interior white paper. The one in my eBay store has a "g" on the front cover, the one in the slab does not. The one I have for sale I was told was attacked by a cat years ago. When I scored them, nothing was in bags or boards. They were stored what they say here (?): "raw" and had been in a garage for some years.

The Batman 21 in question by some one placed the URL for previously in this thread got attacked by a cat years ago. It also has a "g" on the front cover above Robin's yellow cape. Granted, VG+ is a bit much, but at the time i was going thru books which had this in it from a collection of a fellow I know bought Reillys from me, I also was factoring the utter white supple paper inside, the brilliance of the cover colors. Paper quality to me is much more important than other defects such as spine bends, etc. But that is simply my humble opine.