valiantman

Just because this point is important and it was made several pages ago... here it goes again. 70 people voted TMNT #1. There are 38 copies graded CGC 9.6 or higher. Supply and demand. What would it take for TMNT #1 to go insane with higher prices? A half-dozen of us. What would it take for AF #15 to go much higher than it already is? Hundreds of us. TMNT #1 demand is nothing compared to AF #15... but TMNT #1 demand compared to the number of copies available... is a powder keg.

I'll respond. No. He isn't. (thumbs u

Wrong. Twice. I didn't know there was a TMNT movie coming out. I knew that TMNT was turning 30 and I could still afford a high grade copy. Secondly, I knew that turning thirty plus a tiny print run does not mean that people should wait. Wait for what? More to be printed? For the "newness" to wear off? There are VERY few copies of Action #1 and Detective #27. What happened when there were a couple of high sales? The whole ship rose quickly. Do you think one low sale can knock down Action #1 and Detective #27? It only takes a few sales of a tiny print run to make the price insane... for good. If you think I'm just talking about the Golden Age big two (Action #1 and Detective #27), try buying a Maxx Black.

Kids are a small percentage of pop culture. If we use kids as the basis, then Justin Bieber and One Direction beat Wolverine. Equal. Kids are huuuuuuuuuuuuge for a basis. The most important factor for our books to be growing is little Jimmy. Yes, but kids grow out of some things... grow fond of others... grow up... and grow nostalgic about only a little of what used to be most important. I never cared for Spider-man... when I was a kid, he was just a bad skit on the Electric Company reruns. Now I've been the proud owner of two copies of AF #15, am still the owner of one copy... and the book was printed 14 years before I was born. Meanwhile, I could quote the theme to He-Man "I am Adam... by the power of Greyskull" easily when I was a kid. Now, I don't care about He-Man. Kids suck. Just because the kids grow out of it doesn't mean they forget who the character is, that is my point. Most things people collect were 10-15 years before they were born a lot of times. Again you messed up and are giving me personal factors not objective top 5. Superman it to me is a big time loser (except for last summer's awesome movie), but it is obvious AC #1 is #1 on anyone's list worth taking seriously. I can't think of any character more popular than Wolverine as #4. Hulk, Iron Man, Cap closed the gap, but still not 4th IMO. No, I'm saying that my definition of pop culture includes everyone from 3 to 93. Survey the world of consumers and see who knows who... that's who's at the top of pop culture.

Good point. Deadpool is a totally serious character that everyone outside our hobby has heard of... who is not a ripoff of Deathstroke with a rhyming name Wade/Slade Wilson. Game over... insert coins. Better luck next time.

Kids are a small percentage of pop culture. If we use kids as the basis, then Justin Bieber and One Direction beat Wolverine. Equal. Kids are huuuuuuuuuuuuge for a basis. The most important factor for our books to be growing is little Jimmy. Yes, but kids grow out of some things... grow fond of others... grow up... and grow nostalgic about only a little of what used to be most important. I never cared for Spider-man... when I was a kid, he was just a bad skit on the Electric Company reruns. Now I've been the proud owner of two copies of AF #15, am still the owner of one copy... and the book was printed 14 years before I was born. Meanwhile, I quoted the theme to He-Man "I am Adam... by the power of Greyskull" easily on the playground when I was a kid. Now, I don't care about He-Man. Kids suck at choosing... that's why they can't vote.

That's tough. I'm tempted to say Pep #22. No way Pep 22 isnt as well known as Hulk 181. Looks like my edited reply was too slow. I'm talking about the book that represents the first appearance of a pop culture icon. People can't name the comic book first appearance of major characters unless they're IN our hobby. Right so my rebuttal is Archie is a dying character unlike Wolverine. So kids today see both a picture of Wolverine or Archie who will they even know who Archie is more so than Wolverine? Kids are a small percentage of pop culture... and the least established. If we use kids as the basis, then Justin Bieber and One Direction beat Wolverine.

That's tough. I'm tempted to say Pep #22. Not for the popularity of the book itself, but for the popularity of Archie. Many people can name Superman, Batman, and Spider-man, but MOST outside of comic collecting CAN'T name the comic with their first appearance. (They just guess #1.) If looking purely at pop culture then Hulk #1 Most outside the US knows who the Hulk is. Hardly anyone outside the US knows who Archie is. Good point... Hulk #1 should beat Hulk #181. Otherwise, we've been doing this comic collecting thing all wrong.

That's tough. I'm tempted to say Pep #22. No way Pep 22 isnt as well known as Hulk 181. Looks like my edited reply was too slow. I'm talking about the book that represents the first appearance of a pop culture icon. People can't name the comic book first appearance of major characters unless they're IN our hobby. They just guess #1. From that standpoint, TMNT #1 might be the ONLY key with a #1 on the cover and the character name in the title. (Just kidding, Captain America #1 is kind of important.)

That's tough. I'm tempted to say Pep #22. Not for the popularity of the book itself, but for the popularity of Archie. Many people can name Superman, Batman, and Spider-man, but MOST outside of comic collecting CAN'T name the comic with their first appearance. (They just guess #1.)

That is impossible if your mom watches TV she knows who Wolverine is then, especially if she knows who TMNT is. Nope. See?

It really depends on your definition of pop-culture. Show a picture of Wolverine to my mother and she won't know who it is. She can name Superman, Batman, Spider-man, and TMNT, though. (She also knows Archie, Wonder Woman, and every character on Frozen.)

If you were, we'd have to open up that can of TMNT whoopass. But seriously, there are exactly TWO key books for someone like me (age 37, good-but-not-great disposable income) to dabble with high-risk-high-reward around $10K. TMNT #1 Hulk #181 Both of these books can currently be purchased for under $10K in high grade (9.6 or better). Both of these books are recognized as THE book to own for the character(s). Hulk #181 is plentiful... not a problem to locate in high grade... not a month goes by without sales at 9.6+. TMNT #1 is not plentiful... not always easy to locate in high grade... some years go by without sales. If I try to think of another key book that can be purchased in high grade for under $10K, I don't come anywhere near the popularity of Wolverine or TMNT. The "big 3" are definitely Action #1, Detective #27, and AF #15... but those can't be touched in high grade under $100K. The "new 2" are Hulk #181 and TMNT #1. They can currently be bought in high grade for ten times less. I believe, in time, those books are now 40 and 30, respectively... the gap will close. Thank you, and good night. Stay classy.

You've posted so many times in this topic, people might begin to think you know what you're talking about. Let's pretend you do... So please show me where I can find this bloated bubble. Um....you did actually look at and properly interpret the graph you just posted right? Because what I see is a consistent decline from 2008-2012 with a spike in 2013 correlating with the movie announcement. In other words, exactly what I (and the dealers on this board) have been trying to explain to you. What you see is four sales in six years. Less than one sale per year. That's not a consistent decline. It's not even a statistically valid sample size. TMNT #1 is poised to break out... somewhere around its 30th birthday. I wonder when that will be. On the other hand... if there was a bubble in something, it might look like this:

Big comeback win yesterday though. I do not know what is worse the Flyers goal tending over my lifetime or Wall Street's epic POS oil traders. If your Red Wings sneak into the playoffs then they will most likely play Bruins or Penguins which I can't believe I am saying this, but..........GO RED WINGS! (Pretty cool to have Detroit in the east. East playoff match ups are looking even more intense for the foreseeable future!) Did this topic just devolve into hockey discussion? Hockey is totally in a speculative bubble bloated by the winter olympics and Frozen winning an Oscar.

You've posted so many times in this topic, people might begin to think you know what you're talking about. Let's pretend you do... So please show me where I can find this bloated bubble.

Most recent sale is the most unreliable way to judge value of two comics. If this trade had happened October 13th of last year the numbers would have been: Most recent sale of CGC 4.0 AF 15 was $11,500. Most recent sale of CGC 9.6 TMNT 1 was $6,600. Which is no better comparison of the relative values than your example today is. Much better to use 90 day and 1 year averages. Using them the TNMT is about a thousand less. That said if everyone is happy with the trade I see no problem with it. They are at least in the same ballpark of each other. Agreed, however it has been suggested that I left $2k to $3k on the table in the past week. October 2013 isn't last week. Let's review: 1) I'm not a dealer. As a collector, I need to either find my own buyer for a most-recently-sold-for-$9K book, or use consignment/auction. I lose 10% when I sell through consignment or auction... so my $9,000 book is $8,100 net. 2) The book I wanted was consistently selling around $8,100. Using the reality of my situation, it was $8,100 and $8,100. The $9,000 book that I owned just sold at the same grade for $7,887. If it had been my book, after commissions, I would have netted around $7,000. I can't buy an $8,100 book with $7,000 cash. A dealer may have been able to do better, but I don't see where I left that $2k to $3k.

Just FYI for the discussion, today's GPA numbers: Most recent sale of CGC 4.0 AF 15 was $7,887. Most recent sale of CGC 9.6 TMNT 1 was $8,100. Carry on.

The book is magazine sized... if it's in a regular comic long box... that's a pity.

I'm satisfied in both Spiderman-on-Tilt's research and my own. Unless someone knows some reason that my TMNT1 and the first printing 9.6 label should not be together... I'll say they were meant for each other.

I'm in the club.

Book has arrived... a quick photo before being moved to the vault. Just an FYI... anyone who might work with Spiderman-on-Tilt in the future on deals... this was a great one for me. Perfect transaction - kudos to SOT... (and I also posted as much in his kudos thread).

No one is really satisfied with second or third prints unless they already have the first. They settle for second and third. It's a valid alternative, but a hollow victory.