valiantman

I like this one. But, is the 9.6 worth nothing because it's not a 9.8, or because it's a totally different book?

But a Green Label? I should charge a premium given the majority on the census are blues.. Oh, in that case, I should probably clarify that it wouldn't be my first green CEAR slab, and I don't pay a lot for dupes. But to get back on topic... I think the Maxx black ashcans are fascinating. Image had ashcans for LOTS of books in LOTS of different colors, but it looks like only Maxx was "brave enough" to print so few that it wasn't worth the time it took. (Except, now it is.)

Universal blue label numbers have been known to drop when the Signature Series numbers go up.

Nice Chaos Effect Alpha Red! (thumbs u Make me an offer on that book...since you're following me around, board-to-board. Yes, I'm following you, but I'm also using time travel... that's why I got here 7 years before you. You probably don't want my offer... let's just say it wouldn't be my first CEAR slab, and I don't pay a lot for dupes.

No! You can't use dirty tactics like pointing out how some people stick to baseless speculation and defend it with zealotry!

Early and late Valiant books were low print relative to Marvel, DC, Image at the time. Mid-year Valiant books (1993-1994) are mostly as high or higher than Marvel/DC. The easiest thing to do would be to look at the later 1990s Valiant books and just collect the lowest print... but many of those books weren't very good by those issues. Meanwhile, the earliest 1990s Valiant books were the reason that anyone cared about Valiant in the first place. The art, stories, first appearances, etc., as well as being lower print than Marvel/DC/Image. If the only thing that makes a book valuable is a low print run, it's just a matter of time until they print fewer for the same title. By the time you get to (modern variant) books that are 100 copies or 10 copies... you're at the end of the "lowest print run" scenarios. Somewhere along the way, someone WILL finally ask... "Is the book any good?"

"Secret" first Constantine... nice. (thumbs u

b/c the 2nd is too expensive. Yep... buy Hulk 182 because Hulk 181 is too expensive.

I'll put in another vote for copper age high grade newsstand books (Marvel, DC, Image, Valiant) for $1... wherever they can be found.

For X-Force #2, 50K newsstand would be a 1:25 ratio (in today's terms) with the direct edition at 1,250,000. Even if there are 125K newsstand, it would be 1:10. (SCCB has X-Force #2 at 279,700 Capital City orders and Capital City at 22.1% of the Marvel market in 1991. That's 1,250,000 total.)

I agree... Batman Adventures 12 was released between Batman 497 and Batman 500 and only a couple of months after the return of Superman (#500, the die-cut covers, etc.). The industry was still riding high.

Nice Chaos Effect Alpha Red! (thumbs u

I thought X-O 4 was considered Shadowman's first appearance. One panel of him playing saxophone. There's definitely more of Wolverine in Hulk 180.

Well, Valiant is publishing again... and the critics and current readers love them, so it's just a matter of time before more readers are on board through trades or picking up back issues at some point. The first Valiant was 20+ years ago, so the current title characters now have first appearances that are approaching the 25 year mark. It's hard to see how a book like CGC 9.8 X-O Manowar #1 from 1992 could be a bad investment around $60 to $80 now... since it has nowhere to go but up. There are variants of random current issues of X-O Manowar that sell for more than a CGC 9.8 of his first appearance. Yes, those variants are "rare" and they are the new "hot thing" for Valiant, but the long-term view would have to be that the first appearance is a stronger book. Other books like CGC 9.8 Harbinger #1 (1992) are floating in the $300 to $400 range, so there is room for it to drop... on the other hand, it has always been the "big key" for early Valiant, so who knows. Several of the 20+ year old key first appearance books for current Valiant titles are under $100 in CGC 9.8 slabs. Raw, most of these same first appearance books are under $10. KEY Valiant first appearance books that are usually around or under $100 in CGC 9.8 Solar #3 (1991, first Toyo Harada) X-O Manowar #1 (1992, first X-O Manowar) X-O Manowar #4 (1992, brief first Shadowman) Shadowman #1 (1992, first full Shadowman) Eternal Warrior #4 (1992, brief first Bloodshot) Rai #0 (1992, first full Bloodshot, HARDCorps, key storylines issue) Shadowman #8 (1992, first Master Darque) Archer & Armstrong #0 (1992, first Archer & Armstrong, but a limited gold variant exists) Archer & Armstrong #8 (1992, first Ivar the Timewalker) Solar #10 (second printing, 1992, first Eternal Warrior, first Geomancers) Bloodshot #6 (1993, first Ninjak) Shadowman #16 (1993, first Dr. Mirage) Quantum & Woody #1 (1997 Acclaim title, first Quantum & Woody, two covers exist) (potential upcoming interest) Magnus #5 (1991, first Rai, a likely 2014 title for Valiant) KEY Valiant books that ARE ALREADY over $100 in CGC 9.8 Harbinger #1 with coupon (1992, first Harbinger team kids) Solar #10 (first printing, 1992, first Eternal Warrior, first Geomancers) Archer & Armstrong #0 Gold (1992, first Archer & Armstrong, gold variant) http://valiantfan.com/valiant/first.asp

Good point! I'm using the Valiant Reader as the comparison because it is beside BA #14 on the list, but it's possible that Valiant Reader was for sale for multiple months and the Sept. 1993 number might be only a portion of those 225K. So, I'll use the other Valiant books (regular monthly) to estimate the value of the index in the Sept. 1993 list. I get 5,250 copies per index point using the average of 10 regular monthly issues from the list. That puts X-Men #306 at 525,000 copies... and Batman Adventures #14 at 89,250 copies. Doing a similar calculation for Batman Adventures #15 and #16 results in: BA #15 = 87,000 BA #16 = 83,250 So... using these numbers from 1993, it's likely that Batman Adventures #12 sold around 100,000 (most likely in the 92,000 to 96,000 range). These would be direct editions only... and the newsstand numbers would be separate.

Great info, but what is the source for your first sentence? #129 and #130 https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.arts.comics.misc/ua52laz7cdg

Batman Adventures #14 sold about as many copies of Valiant Reader. Valiant Reader was around 225,000. It's hard to see why Batman Adventures #12 wouldn't be very close to #14. EDIT - Estimate revised to around 100,000 using other data... see link: http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7101850#Post7101850

Newsstand early Image books may be a "sleeper" ... I don't think newsstand Image books were as common as Marvel or DC... they were too new... just breaking into the market. Compare that to the millions of copies of Image direct editions and the ratios could easily be 1:20+. I have a little stack of WildCATS #2 newsstand pulled from $1 bins. I like them because they were plain white instead of the holo-prism. The holo-prism was everywhere... but I don't think I saw more than 1 plain white at the time (1992). For $1 each... they make me happy.

It would take a couple of weeks, even with fast track.

Newsstand UPC copies are generally in worse shape than the direct editions from the 1990s. It's likely that higher prices for MOS 17 & 18 in the past few months have drawn more copies out of longboxes and into CGC for slabbing. The "surge" in the number on Ebay is probably a result of people wanting to cash in... but they're competing with others doing the same. Personally, I prefer the UPC copies because I picture them the way I saw them... bent up with magazines or in spinner racks. Unsold copies were often pulped. Direct edition books from the same time were sitting carefully on comic shop shelves... and into bags with boards. Check CGC slabs for Amazing Spider-man #300 for UPC vs. Spidey-head on Ebay (frequency and grades) and see what I mean. www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_mPrRngCbx=1&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313&_nkw=CGC+Spider+300+-700+-chromium+-spawn+-hulk+-falls+-dvd+-mini&_sacat=63 I'd rather have Newsstand UPC books from the late 1980s to present... but I know others have said they think barcodes are ugly and prefer Direct with art/text in the box.

(thumbs u

Impressive... normally your statement would result in the messaging equivalent of Veruca Salt. (The girl, not the band.)

Is a blond Superman allowed in this thread?

Great books - packaged PERFECTLY! If only he had more books I wanted... (and if only I had more money)