1classics

Yeah sounds about right. If it were a stronger page I could see it possibly over 125. I was going over the 3 Kirby/Ditko Spidey/Torch related issues, this being the larger of the 3 issues (18 pages) vs FF Annual 1 (6) & ASM 8 backup (6), so only 30 pages to work with in total. Furthermore a handful of the pages actually don't have spidey to keep in mind. Also, without question the premium pages go for the 1st meeting from FF Annual 1... BTW- The title page to FF Annual 1 sold on Clink in '22, for right under $300k (still a deal in my eyes, I bid, but should've gone stronger a little stronger)... though still the title page, but the large title stat took away a lot of art, 2 smaller spidey images (1 back turned), nice FF group shot, but arguably one of the weaker of the 6 pages as far as content and art was concerned. With that said, I still think this page should go in or around the $100k range, more if 2 people really want a Kirby / Ditko example, IMO is the best combination! Speaking of which if anyone has any of the FF Annual 1 pages and are willing to sell, please let me know.

Sorry not to sway away from Kirby's DC 70's goodness and not sure if anyone's noted this one, but this looks to be one of the most expensive Kirby pieces that's come to market in a while, or at least that's come up at auction from what I can remember over the last year, of course with the exception of the Cap 5 splash and Cap 59 pages?... ST Annual 2 Kirby Pencils & Ditko inks, twice-up Spidey / Torch page from the Jon Berk collection...This one should be interesting, projected $100k+, over/under?

Yeah those days are long gone... If you or anyone else had an opportunity to buy this painted piece for a few k years ago they should've done it as Eastman early TMNT art just isn't coming up anymore or if it is it's commanding high prices. And yeah you're right, the last couple pieces from that story sold respectfully at $25-26k over the last few months. So this piece hammered at $19.200, about 30% less than the recent Raphael #1 art in comparison, so sounds about right imo for what it is...

Yeah we've all been there, so there's a very strong chance this is it.

Yeah it's certainly in the Comics Interview #27 (see attached), and agreed it could be "ambiguous" in regards to what came first ultimately. All I was saying above was with other investment sites, people on ebay and elsewhere all saying this came first, it may be hard to change the narrative at this point. I too agree with Browning in that HA's actions were not "criminal", it's clear that they both came out around the same time, but perhaps seeing the interview may have taken place months before print, maybe the pinup drawing was done before Raphael #1? Or since we don't have definitive dates for publication or release on either, was it around the same time or one month to the next? But again if we're talking about first published comic appearance, there's no debate there its Raphael #1, as this is ultimately a fanzine. One other thing to mention that was discussed originally is value. If this was auctioned with clink in 2014 and sold for north of $2k+ at the time, nearly a decade later selling for multiples is quite common. We see it all the time when there's that much time lapsed in comic art auctions. You have to remember in 2014 early Turtles pages, even #3-5 were selling for around this range where as now good luck to get them less than 5 figures for a decent one. At the end of the day as Browning said, do your own research and come to your own conclusions prior to auction. This doesn't seem so black and white to me especially based on the facts with the interview time frame for tmnt and mention of the book being released later.

Hi Jay, I thought I had actual scans, but here's what I found attached. First attachment "Comic Book Invest" clearly has this as predating Raphael #1 and why this book is a "wise" investment. Second attachment is directly from the interview which states at least at the time of the interview TMNT #3 was coming out or just released, which would've been early '85? GCD has TMNT #3 released 4/1/85 and unfortunately both CGC and GCD don't list a definitive date for Raphael #1's release, but #3 still would be prior to Raphael #1. Which then makes sense if the art was included and later painted by Eastman sometime in '85. If I do recall and what both Eastman and Laird eluded to in the beginning being independent publishing, having significant delays an there was possible mention of Raphael #1 launching later as planned? I believe in the same interview they talk about the release of Raphael #1 coming later in the year, which I agree would be odd for a magazine to publish and advertise a release of a book that was clearly out already. It's certainly a tough one to conclude since both the Comics Interview and Raphael were not dated and CGC and GCD don't really help either. Either way, it looks to be really close, but seeing this art was included in an interview before Raphael #1, I could see where this is labeled pre-Raphael #1? I should also add this isn't Casey's first drawing as there are concept art pieces in Eastman's artobiography dated 1984, but were not published until the early 2000's when the book was published. But that's not what we're discussing here, ultimately I could see with people listing on ebay as his first published appearance as well as investment sites, it's hard to change the public eye much like the Hulk 180/181 debate, even though one is a comic vs a fanzine publication LOL. Hope this helps, but doesn't look so black and white and certainly not "criminal" in approach.

Hi I researched this piece as well and it is his first published artwork, it predates Raphael #1 as it was published in Comics Interview 27, which clearly states in there that Raphael #1 was coming out later in the year. As noted and perhaps more importantly it was published in Turtlemania #1. When this was offered years ago, I don't think it was originally marketed as "first published", it wasn't even mentioned about Comics Interview, the more important note was Turtlemania publication. But times have changed and I think the more importance has gone to "first published" or of "1st appearance" etc. What I questioned was the black and white vs the paints, but HA reached out to confirm with Eastman this is the original pencil and ink and was painted shortly after, as he made a copy before paint and used it for publication. So comic wise, I suppose it will be considered Raphael #1 first published, but overall and perhaps to certain collectors this indeed did come first. I agree with Michael in that it looks like they included any and all documents from the seller as well as doing their own research in going directly to the source being Eastman to confirm the nature and origin of this piece. Hope this helps, but I too don't find this as misinformation or nothing near "criminal".

yeah i could see that range, but hopefully for the seller's sake they get 1-2 more bids to get them closer to even. yeah it could've been an investment move and cashing out for another investment or it could also be they got the right ditko spidey page and only want / need that one example. who knows? a lot of comic investors who jumped into the art market didn't quite understand it takes more time and patience with the art. then again, the market seemed to have recovered fairly well this past signature auction, so will results be same or higher than expected? only time will tell.

tough call, let's play devil's advocate...seeing it was a somewhat newer sale, but long enough where maybe there's a few more potential bidders for a page like this? or in a lot of recent cases with art re-auctioned it may go to the underbidder and thus losing the extra bid? food for though but if this page did have spidey in it, it may be a $200k+ page, so without spidey, but still having all the villains (some value the rogue gallery pages as much or pretty close to the hero) it could wind up pretty close or maybe even above where it landed in '21? Even the "sub-par" Ditko spidey pages bring close to if not over $100k+, so this page being so unique, i believe it was marketed before as the only page Ditko did in this era with all the villains and heroes on one page, could still command a premium? again tough to say, but as far as Ditko presentation pieces go, i could see someone wanting this on their wall and thus paying a premium for it. But again the consignor would need another bid or 2 to $150k+ to break even, so maybe you're right, but i don't think they'll take a bath, only time will tell. my 2c:)

Yeah I only highlighted a few lots on Sunday that I thought were “deals”. This one was an interesting one as I was in the running, thru my cut in at $23k, so $27.6k, played it all wrong. I wanted to stay under $30k and with the next bids, my next bid would’ve been $33k+. In retrospect, seeing the offers post auction it would have been worth it going the extra mile. 🤣 I think the issue for me and a few others was this was a good example but not great. But then again if Logan was in your face and throughout the page or at least one more panel it would be quite a bit more. Instead, Logan is at the bottom cut off, but the content was important with him awakening. At the end of the day it appears it was a good deal. Can’t win ‘em all..congrats to the consignor, the high bidder and now the new buyer!

Hi yeah though as mentioned due to the privacy aspect of things, I can't really speak much of it more here. And no not the "Last 4" if that's what you're referring to, that private sale happened nearly 2 years ago and considering even in today's market, was a fairly good deal considering the content etc. But before we continue to turn this thread into an IG topic, I'll steer things back to the topic at hand. Let's try to connect separately outside of here if you'd like to discuss further. Overall strong results and equally strong auction, We tend to highlight some of the unexpected or outlier results, though here are a few pieces that seemed "fair" pricing or perhaps slipped between the cracks. And agreed it was mainly on Sunday, Friday seemed very strong. I may be partial to my overall "watch" view and collecting style, but these seemed fairly good deals. I usually scroll thru and read everyone's thoughts, but now with a little more time on my hands I thought I'd throw my 2c... As already noted: Perez IG #1 PG (last results for an IG Thanos pg were north of $20k+) Starlin Cap Marvel #25 end page for under $6k seemed like good value with Marvell and Rick Jones on the page and setting up the Thanos Saga in issue #26. Addtl "Deals"?: Joe Mad X-Men #336 DPS Apocolypse sold for $4.6k, I spoke to my rep and a few others who had much higher expectations for this piece. JSC Moon Knight / Spidey #9 cover, is an iconic cover used as TPB & limited print. (was a no sale in previous auction at $10-12k+ range, '17 sold for $6.5k via HA), $7.5k this auction! Gibbons Supes & WW Annuals painted end-papers / inside covers sold for $3.6k-$3.8k (might not be Watchmen, but painted Gibbons art seemed like a good deal from this era) Jim Lee PWJ #1 splash $12k may seem like a lot, but this is a #1 issue and cover quality splash, I could've seen this going for $15k+ Miller DK related illustration @ $11.4k, large art 19x25, there's another version from same period that was used for Tec 1000 published cover, this "unused version" originally sold in '16 for $12k! Miller DK market has certainly moved up a lot since then, with similar size art on similar board selling for $20-30k+ over the last couple years. Starlin Surfer / Warlock Resurrection #4 Mephisto Warlock splash, product of a resale, was recently on sale by Tri-State for $4.5k? Sold last at Clink for $2100 in '21, $600 result! I'm probably missing a few in between, but we can see the recycled art or being in the marketplace affecting overall value of some pieces? It's hard when there's 500+ lots on one day and we're all attempting to hold dry powder for future lots and or auctions. Again, this is more of my collecting style and watch list, so it may not speak to some of you, and I'm not mentioning the other 80+ lots I was watching because they far exceeded my expectations where I was simply a spectator.

Sounds like you should've thrown your hat in on yesterday's Perez IG page! Like I said before maybe not the best of Thanos imagery, but it still would be a nice entry level expample for under $10k seemed like great value. I would imagine the next page coming to auction, which is far more dynamic will bring far more money, but then again, you never know these days. Get that dry powder ready LOL!

Yeah I'm well aware of the market, though I'm also aware of private sales I can't mention much about due to the nature of what it is being "private" LOL. One of which was a recent Lim interior sale that was well into the six figures. Coming from someone who has both Perez and Lim IG art, I'm not biased to one over the other, and I too love Perez's line work and detail to his art, but again to answer Erik's original question, it's not clear cut Perez > Lim as far as value is concerned in this case. And again, not all, but some of the most desirable "battle" pages that most collectors want are obviously in the hand of Lim, since much of Perez's art in this series though beautiful aren't battle pages. What would be more interesting is would issues 4-6 if in the hand of Perez vs Lim bring more money? I've never really thought of it, perhaps it would? Or is it a TOS 39 scenario where it doesn't really matter who does the art (within reason), due to the importance of the issue or series in this case? Kirby or Heck for Iron Man? Or if it were in Kirby's hand, do the Iron Man TOS 39 pages bring more? Probably not right? Though different being a 1st appearance, the analogy here in question pertains to artist importance, especially when we're talking about one of the most important series of the modern era. Now that I'm thinking about it more, perhaps I should've thrown another bid or two on the page you just won haha!

It’s tricky, and the easy answer in most cases would be yes… but I say but here simply because the latter part of the book where Lim took over seems to be some of the most desirable pages amongst collectors. The battle issue for instance is #4, Perez only did the opening battle page with Thanos vs Hulk / Drax and the rest went to Lim. And some very important context/content pages are in #5 and of course #6, so as much as we’d say Perez over Lim in all other cases, perhaps not for IG. 🤷‍♂️

This was a good buy. I was lead before it crossed and was shocked it went so low. As mentioned these IG pages with Thanos on them have been trending a lot higher, though I do think if it had better Thanos images it would have hit that $12-15k mark. Interesting thought about the Thanos Quest pages hurting the IG market, that may be the case for now but not long term I’d imagine. Overall, good pickup. 👍 ps- with 500+ lots yesterday a few things did slip between the cracks like this one, but not many. Overall as noted this seemed like an overall very strong auction.

That’s the issue, it’s not SA and not considered peak era Infantino, though still nice, but this is the tail end of the Bronze Age and nearly into the copper age…

This ⬆️ At least for the right pages / key issues etc 👍

Problem is it’s now recycled, sold a year ago with heritage for $43k with the juice, so generally unless there’s a new audience consignor may take a haircut. 🤷‍♂️

Yeah sorry to chime in and be a “fact checker” but a “few weeks” to over a year ago doesn’t quite seem like a quick flip… though I do understand in the OA world anything less than 5 years is considered somewhat of a “short term” hold…

Not quite, this sold roughly a year ago on Clink, I only know cuz I was the underbidder. It was offered privately beforehand for roughly this same current ask, but I don’t think this example counts as a “quick flip”. If you go to their site it’s actually much more reasonable at $32k. I love the bottom panel, but the rest of the page is “eh”, which is the issue…

great page and good luck!

I think you’re right about Brodsky. The early thoughts were always Klein, but more recently the consensus is more than likely Brodsky inks early on. I found the ad from The Kirby archives, interesting it was later used for a newer FF1 cover. Perhaps the AF ad was a stat as most of the house ads were stat at this time. https://kirbymuseum.org/blogs/effect/2018/08/08/ff-house-ad/

Thanks for the feedback. It must be this ad page below, which would’ve been done shortly after the interior pages (V724), Hulk 1 was an entirely different production number under V708. As you’re probably aware it gets pretty technical with the job numbers, but it looks like this ad was a filler and used later in the month or following month before print, with not as many titles in early ‘62. Therefore as much as this was printed in Hulk 1, it’s not part of the Hulk story and does not contain Hulk whatsoever. Either way, I think we can all agree this art would go for a tremendous amount if it ever came to market. Bechara, Moy, Burkey, etc. and the older historians who went on record from as early as the late 60’s early 70’s hotel conventions all have never come across a Hulk 1 interior to my knowledge or at least that’s what been said. According to Tom Kraft, Kirby Museum curator, he hasn’t come across a scan or heard of one from the story either. But who knows what’s sitting in someone’s attic or some crazy black hole collection, just doubtful at this point. I’m a realist, we have to believe what we see in this world not what we hear, so unless a proven scan comes up, we have to go off what we know exists, not just rumors. And I get that the rumors are insane, from FF1 cover in Europe to a Cap 1 cover in the wild, which is all possible but extremely doubtful. Again, this is great information above about the ad art, thanks again for sharing!

Greetings all, just to add my on this fascinating topic… The story goes the complete interiors to ASM 1 and X1 was sold for something like $2k each in the park by the druggies, but never heard the covers. As for the original question, there’s likely no Hulk 1 or 2 interior art out there. All the top dawgs in the biz have never heard of or encountered pages from the first 2 issues. Hulk 3 as advertised by clink is the earliest Hulk art to exist at this time. Interestingly enough, FF’s earliest known interiors is also from issue #3, though months earlier in late ‘61. FF & Hulk were the first two hero related art books to hit, even Spidey and Thor came a few months after Hulk, so there’s something to be said for 1961 / early ‘62 art surviving or lack thereof. Also, according to Vartinoff, FF3 and Hulk 3 were the earliest in the vault, (see attached) which I believe she began cataloging in 1975, though concluded her results in 1980. Needless to say I’m chiming in since I’ve done countless hours of research on the topic and I find it most interesting. We’ll never truly know what happened with all the art early on or even later as others mentioned above, but it’s still a fascinating topic. After 60+ years now from the earliest Marvel Age art existing and record breaking results, you would imagine if these covers or earlier interior pages are out there, one or more would’ve surfaced. Unless something miraculously appears like AF15 gifted to the LOC, it’s likely vanished decades ago when they were thought to be worthless and only taking up space in the marvel office.

Thanks for the recommendation but we both nearly have complete books and nearly the same pages so that wouldn't do much good. Plus both of our goals are to complete our own books lol. But moving forward I'll start a private message thread with my fellow Supes buddy here so our thread isn't everyone else's concern.