@therealsilvermane

And all you keep doing is dismissing everything and anything I say and defaulting your response to "blind MCU fanatic". I say you are the one being blind.

Critic aggregate scores are extremely flawed in my opinion, which I also say is a fact. This doesn't change the fact that Metacritic and RT aggregate scores are still considered a partial barometer of a movie's success by our society, whether I agree with it or not. I bring up those RT scores in my examples above, not because I agree with them, but because they are being used by the media and the general public as the final word on whether a movie is a critical hit or not.

Not completely true. Studios also want a movie to be loved, or at least pay attention to what fans and audiences think, particularly if it's part of a franchise. For instance, The Last Jedi made over a billion dollars and got positively reviewed by the critics, but was almost universally panned by the fans on social media and elsewhere (minus the toxic trolling). It wasn't all good. This caused Lucasfilm to change course for the third movie. Another instance, the first Suicide Squad movie. It made almost as much money as Wonder Woman, but while WW was loved by critics and fans, SS was panned by critics and fans. Though the two films made almost the same in box office, Wonder Woman was considered the hit due to the fan/critic feedback and how much it stuck with audiences, while Suicide Squad was considered a disappointment. The result? Wonder Woman was almost immediately greenlit for a sequel, while Suicide Squad was rebooted. In this pandemic era, when box office returns are down from what they normally would be, studios are probably paying even more attention to what the critics and especially the fans think as it's hard to gage fan interest from ticket sales while people are still scared to go to the movies etc. For these last two MCU films, based on critic and fan feedback, Shang Chi has reportedly been greenlit for a sequel. On the other hand, Eternals may not get a sequel based on the poor to mixed critic reviews, one of the movie's producers even saying Eternals doesn't need a sequel. Though only $50 million or so will separate their final box office returns, Shang Chi is considered the hit movie, Eternals is not. And that may affect what Marvel Studios does regarding their continuing stories in the future.

Except box office receipts wasn't my only criteria for a movie being a "hit". It's not really the industry's only criteria, either, otherwise Transformers Age of Extinction would be one of the greatest movie hits of all time. I also took in to account critic and fan reaction, critical and box office expectation vs the actual outcome, and how much the movie moved the pop culture needle for the positive i.e. its impact on audiences or how much it changed things artistically/industry-wise, etc.

I clearly(or maybe not so clearly) defined my criteria for "hit", which, besides the world vs domestic box office thing, is what I think is the usual general criteria for a movie hit. I clearly said I left out world wide box office concerning American movies because of the pandemic and the situation in China. You can't equally judge two movies head to head by worldwide box office if one of them was allowed to screen in China and the other wasn't. But folks here keep going back to the worldwide box office thing so whatever. Sticking to one's guns is a thing.

Transformers Age of Extinction made $245 million domestic, $1.1 billion worldwide. It has a 17% RT critics score, 50% RT audience score. It's a bad movie that was made almost directly for the growing China market. Is it considered one of the most popular movies of all time and a qualified hit because it made over a billion world wide?

There are two all-time domestic lists on box office mojo. One is for total gross which lists Star Wars Force Awakens as the #1 film of all time. The other list is adjusted for inflation and lists Gone With the Wind as the #1 film of all time. When folks refer to a domestic all-time list, they usually refer to the total gross list.

Yeah, I'm not comparing Aquaman and Shang-Chi. I was comparing Aquaman and Wonder Woman to make a point about worldwide grosses and movies being a qualified hit but I guess you didn't get it. Btw, the reason so many people would be wearing lots of Venom and Carnage shirts is because they're iconic comic book characters, not because of the lame Sony movies. If people are wearing Shang-Chi shirts or any such merchandise, it's directly because of the movie's success, not the comic book who hardly anyone really cared about.

LOL try again with the actual modern list I sent you. It made it to the 25th spot not counting that movies like Gone With the Wind and Star Wars also had multiple re-releases at the theaters over the decades because there was no such thing as home video or streaming. Again bend the narrative to fit your needs.

I pulled those numbers out of Box Office Mojo's top lifetime domestic list butt... https://www.boxofficemojo.com/chart/top_lifetime_gross/?ref_=bo_lnav_hm_shrt It's #25 on the list.

To my fellow forumites who keep harping on worldwide box office gross, I realize its importance to a movie's overall profit. However, I pose the following: Aquaman grossed $335 million domestic, $1.15 billion worldwide. Wonder Woman grossed $425 million domestic, $818 billion worldwide. Aquaman got 65% critic, 74% audience scores on RT. Wonder Woman got 93% critic, 83% audience scores on RT. The Aquaman movie came and went in America as an okay movie. On the other hand, Wonder Woman became a movie phenomenon with many fans citing it as their favorite super-hero movie and giving hope to the sputtering DCEU franchise. Little girls everywhere suddenly had their own super-hero and Wonder Woman was one of the top selling Halloween costumes in 2017. Aquaman made $300 million more than Wonder Woman worldwide, but is anyone here seriously going to say that Aquaman was a bigger hit than Wonder Woman?

Captain Marvel would be in the Top 25 of all-time domestic grosses, so not bad at all.

I don't deny that those four American movies have a higher worldwide box office gross than Shang-Chi. However... In my "wall of text" post a few posts above, I "carefully" laid out my reasons why I said Shang-Chi qualifies as a bigger hit than F9 and No Time to Die (that also includes Venom 2 and GvK), even though those four American films have a larger world wide box office than Shang-Chi. I left out worldwide box office because China, the world's largest movie market, is going through a government imposed nationalist isolationist movement right now and has banned a lot of Hollywood films including Shang-Chi. China is continuing to move away from Hollywood movies and wants to rely mostly on its own China-made movies going forward. The fact that The Battle of Lake Changjin's $900 million is all from China is proof that they can probably do it. But this year, the four American movies above Shang Chi in worldwide box office grosses were all given a pass to screen in China. For F9 and GvK, it was a majority of their box office gross. Even still, the most important market to American films is the country they were made in, the world's second largest movie market, America. The North American movie market, which includes Canada and Mexico, is still the biggest barometer of a film's box office success. So with that, concerning Shang Chi as possibly the biggest hit of the pandemic, I stated that I took into consideration North American box office, critics' reactions, fans' reactions, how much expectations were met or exceeded, and how much of an effect the movie had on culture and the industry. And oh yeah, that we're in a pandemic. In the pandemic era, Shang Chi has: 1. the highest North American box office gross of any North American movie, 2. has higher critic and fan scores on RT and Metacritic than those four other American movies, 3. exceeded box office and critical expectations whereas those four other films just met or fell short of expectations, 4. had a discernable effect on pop culture and the movie theater industry. Concerning that last one, movie theater CEO's were tweeting the good graces of Shang Chi (and Venom 2 I admit), not F9, not GvK, not No Time to Die. Are you going to deny that? Of course you are...

No, I'm not blind. I can read the worldwide box office list posted above. Regarding my previous off-the-cuff statement that Shang-Chi is the biggest hit of the pandemic, I carefully listed out my reasonings in a lengthy "wall of text" above stating why I consider Shang-Chi to be a bigger qualified hit than F9 or No Time to Die. Did you read it and did it make sense to you or are you the one being blind? Are you going to sit at your computer (or mobile device) and seriously tell me that the nationalist communist Chinese film The Battle at Lake Changjin is the biggest hit of the pandemic?

Yeah, that Battle of Lake Changjin movie just took the entire world by storm! Or not. I can also post lists...

I thought we were talking about MCU space invasions.

I'll repeat. In my summation, Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings is the biggest hit of the pandemic era. Yes, I know a couple of Chinese films, F9, and Bond have bigger worldwide numbers. But this isn't just about worldwide numbers. If it was all about worldwide numbers, then China's nationalist film The Battle at Lake Changlin would be the biggest hit of the pandemic. And it's not. A lot of people in China saw the movie, but it hardly screened in North America. If this was all about worldwide numbers, even outside the pandemic, then Aguaman would be considered a bigger hit than Wonder Woman. But it's not. Wonder Woman is considered the DCEU's most successful film overall. And while Aguaman and Joker got comparable worldwide numbers, Joker is considered the far more bigger hit. That's because there are other things at play besides worldwide box office numbers. Shang-Chi has the largest North American numbers for a popular movie during the pandemic era so far, though I agree those numbers will be dwarfed when SM No Way Home arrives. But also what has to be considered is critical reaction, fan reaction, expectation vs the actual outcome, and its effect on popular culture at large. F9 was just the 9th movie in a franchise that basically has given us the same thing over and over again. JB No Way to Die, while not exactly just another Bond movie as it was Craig's last film, seemed to underwhelm with both critics and fans and actually came under box office expectations in North America. Neither movie really moved the pop culture needle much. Shang Chi, even though it was a MCU film, had very tempered expectations. I'm sure we all remember that, right? Even here in this forum? Critics and fans alike expected a lesser effort from Marvel based on the trailers. It was an unknown character and an Asian character at that. Box office expectations were tempered to about $50 million and sentiment about movie theaters overall was down. Upon Shang Chi's arrival, the movie blew away box office predictions and scored $90+ million during its Labor Day weekend debut, a weekend that historically has had low box office numbers. Critical and fan reactions were almost unanimous that Shang Chi was a really good movie, again blowing away expectations. As much as I disparage the Rotten Tomatoes aggregate, I've never denied that it's still a cultural barometer for a movie's success at least in image. The RT scores for Shang Chi are 92% critics, 98% fans. Shang Chi also moved the pop culture needle in numerous ways. It suddenly changed the conversation about the impending demise of movie theaters and made them seem viable again (we've had this conversation and I've posted the numerous articles, tweets, and stock price figures that show it). It had the Black Panther effect of being another major super-hero featuring a non-white character that ended up being a positively received movie. Shang Chi was by all accounts, a hit. In my summation, when considering North American box office, critic and fan reaction, expectations vs what actually happened, and how much it moves the pop culture needle, Shang Chi is so far the biggest hit of the pandemic era.

In DC Movies they always seem to happen in Gotham or Metropolis... In early MCU films films, one space invasion occurs in New York City in Avengers. The others were in a New Mexico desert town (Thor) and London (Thor 2). If you count Captain Marvel, then it was Los Angeles and the California desert. New York City doesn't get invaded again until Infinity War when Thanos' Black Order come looking for the Time Stone. Infinity War's big space invasion occurs in Wakanda.

At least Electro doesn't seem to be the weird blue eel-skin guy from ASM2. This is a much better look.

I say in a head to head to matchup, it shouldn't count because those films were allowed to play in China and Shang-Chi was not.

As Sony was rolling and pouting on the floor crying "But we wanna show Tobey and Andrew! Waaagh!", Kevin Feige patted little Sony on the head saying "Now, now, we must learn patience."

That's not really the same thing, though, right? Dune 2 is obviously expected as the thing unexpectedly cuts off just as it's getting mildly interesting. Kevin Feige and Disney don't formally announce Marvel sequels the month after the origin story movie debuts in theaters and they never have.

News report from Sept. 25, 2021: "Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings is now the highest-grossing movie of the COVID era in North America, surpassing the $183.4 million earned by Black Widow. Shang-Chi took in $3.59 million on Friday for a domestic total of $186.7 million, the best domestic gross for a movie since the pandemic began." And now its North America take stands at $224 million. The highest in the pandemic era. I'm just reporting the facts here, man.

Ha ha. Now is there a way to hide that f****g gif? It's kinda nauseating. I guess in a couple hours it'll be buried in oh!-gasmic reactions to the new No Way Home trailer.

Andrew Garfield is my favorite Spider-Man, actually. Unpopular opinion: The Amazing Spider-Man was an amazing film and a refreshing take on the character. Spider-Man, indie style. Sony screwed the pooch, as so many have, by getting MCU envy and changing up the sequel to set up their own movie universe. It ended up with Spidey in the MCU so I guess it was for the best in a way, though I would have liked to have seen Marc Webb's original intended sequel film. Sony, hand the Spider-Deed over to Disney already. Your karma will be better for it.