Rick2you2

To answer your overarching question, I am less interested than many collectors in the artist than a particular piece. More on that later. When I wrote “it isn’t just artistic style, it is the quality of the work”, I was trying to refer to the way they express their artistic vision. I can not compare, say, a Bruce Timm piece to something by Wrightson: they are so stylistically different. But, there are similarities between the styles of Buscema and Lee in the sense they try to draw (human) characters as real people with exaggerated physiques. Flourishes you see that an Aparo might include for dramatic effect are not there (even though either one could probably have drawn in the other’s style, based on their skill set). Viewed that way, I consider the work I have seen by Lee far superior. On that point, the market agrees,I think. About the Lee commissions, the work is excellent. No question there. When I buy things, in general, I buy for value received not image presented. If I wanted a sports sedan, I would not consider a BMW, except for the 2 series, and in particular, Hyundai now makes a car which is more highly rated by auto experts than a BMW 3 series sedan even though they are in the same class. Now before you say art isn’t the same as cars: yes, they are. They are both commodities which are bought sold, and traded at different prices (reflected on these boards). That’s why Moy can get $15,000 for a commission for Lee. If someone won’t roll out of bed for $15,000, they must be dead. In a story several years ago, a journalist sent checks for 1 dollar to various famous and rich people. Most didn’t cash them. One who did was Donald Trump. I think there are artists who have similar styles to Lee, who might or might not arguably be as good, but are not “Jim friggin Lee”. If their work is 1/4 the price of Lee’s work, that’s what I would buy. That is also a subject which might make a good thread.

Take a look at the comments at the beginning of this thread, from last year, and let ask you, why are there so many comments from the opposite prospective as to what is being posted now? Sal Buscema is not nearly as good as Kirby, and it isn’t just artistic style. It is the quality of the work.

Of course not. I wasn't suggesting the buyers were suckered.

You are mixing different issues: no one has to justify their purchase on how they spend their money. If someone wants to spend 15K for reasons of status, that's their business. But, if Wrightson is better technically than Ditko, that is definitely something which is a subject worthy of discussion. I think it should also be a factor when the value of the art is considered, and may add to everyone's enlightenment here. Personally, I don't think the two are really comparable because their styles are different. With Ditko, part of what makes his work so well received is the stylized way he drew. Would those early Spider-Man issues be considered as good with Wrightson? I don't think so.

Alex, Before I go on, I think you got a bargain on your piece. You have almost 30 characters, plus background/foreground objects, plus a color version, all pulled together into a unified image that is cleverly done by a good artist. I think that is easily worth $3,700. Regarding the comments on the commission prices in general, I think there are at least 3 different issues which deserve to be looked at separately. First, when a person really wants something, there is no such thing as overpaying. I have paid more than market price for art, as have others here, but since I keep it forever, market prices are irrelevant. I want what I like and if I can afford it, I will buy it (depending upon how much I like it and the cost). As such, no one should take what they paid as personal criticism. It's great you found something to treasure. Second, compared to the market price, is $15,000 too high? Well, there seem to be a fair number of people who were/are willing to spend it, so, and in that sense, no, the price was not too high. Third, is the market price justified? That is a fair subject which comes up regularly in different contexts (e.g. Sal Buscema). Just not for someone with Lee's stature. Well, what about comparables? Lee's work, which I characterize as "super-realistic" is excellent--no dispute there. But there are other artists who also draw in that same manner, adding varying degrees of awesomeness, personality, etc. into their art. What do they charge for the same sort of art, and does it makes sense to pay this much for Lee's work--except that it was by Lee? And what about the market price for existing Lee work? How does that compare? To me, and I suspect to a fair number of others, I think $15,000 is high. Bottom line, Alex, you did well and your money was well spent, IMO. But no, I don't see a justification for spending $15,000 for a commission by Lee (even though his work is excellent).

In one sense, everything is a stolen concept. What was that old line: you can reduce all stories to just [pick number] plots. But with that said, there is generally more characterization, and some newer twists. What you have said, however, is one reason why I don’t read many books anymore.

I admittedly don’t read that many anymore, but in my opinion, there are better stories than way back in the 1960’s if you look around. Unfortunately, they get stretched out with too many secondary plot threads, and a focus on art (specifically, too many splashes and semi-splashes) to the detriment of the story lines. And yes, there are also a lot of retreads. I am sick of threats to the multi-verse.

That was his old costume. Facially, he looks a little like Sunfire. I am unimpressed with this cover. Too cluttered. To each his own.

Not always, but my preference doesn't detract from my interest in buying.

First, the easy part. I would not buy a purely digital image. I went through that soul searching a while ago. Second, yes I would buy it and have bought them in the past. But, I prefer seeing the orignal pencil marks.

My latest "favorite" may be Jason Shawn Alexander. This is a sample page he did when making a proposal to DC for a book "Constantine/Phantom Stranger" (DC did not pick it up). Reminds me a little of Sienkiewicz's work (and a lot cheaper). The two characters have a history, and they aren't exactly the best of friends--even before one story where Constantine pee'd on PS's shoes. Alexander beautifully captures the moodiness of PS in that first panel, and his less-than-happy face when seeing his old shoe-cleaning buddy in the last one. Unfortunately, Alexander didn't do any more pages with PS in them (or I would have added them to my collection).

I don’t want to get into a tax debate here, but income taxes are based on net income after deductions. The reason Income taxes are legal is because when the Supreme Court said they weren’t, a Constitutional Amendment was passed which legalized it.

I can’t agree with that. Income taxes are supposed to be based on income. If you never get the money, because it goes to pay local taxes, it leaves you with negative disposable income. And it’s not like the taxpayer has an effective choice, either (moving is not realistic for most people). The state or municipality isn’t going to lower its taxes by anything significant because of its own cost burdens. At a minimum, it should have had a long phase-in.

Same reason as limiting the SALT deduction. Increases government revenue, thereby increasing the amount that Congress could reduce the overall tax rates—which went about 70% to business. If memory serves me, even like kind exchanges were cut back to purely residential exchanges for homeowners. Not an accountant, so I am not sure. The SALT cap of $10,000 is worse. It means some people will pay Federal taxes on money they never get because it went to the State or local tax man. It is particularly hurting residential housing prices over $750k in places where property taxes are high.

You can skim it withou unobtrusive emails on Comic Art Tracker. I agree with you about lousy nude art. Let's not forget out-and-out soft porn, either, like a close up of the sex act.

I agree. I like ‘em.

I hope you didn’t partially or fully prepay for it. That’s a sore point as some people have been burned. There is even a Facebook group on that subject.

Getting a piece of art sent to me that is so well wrapped, I am afraid to open it without accidentally damaging what is inside. Getting art which is sent but was not wrapped in plastic protection inside the package—and is, again, so well wrapped on the outside I was accidentally afraid I might cut it (which once happened). Art listed for sale on CAF which turns out to be a dead link.

Upset is not the right. Try mystified. It also has the indirect effect of encouraging overall price increases, so a little criticism is not a bad thing. One of the best parts of this hobby is its accessibility, and that includes pricing for original works of art. So while I think that artists really are underpaid in this profession, five figures, like for Jim Lee's pieces of illustration art is stiff.

Actually, I think that would be quite an accomplishment.

Since you asked, this is a subject raised very early in this very thread which drew a lot of comments, and it is a helluva lot of money for a commission.

Just out of curiosity, what are the highest rates charged by other artists for commissions? I have seen Sienkewitz paintings sell for $10,000 or less. Most commissions I have been quoted are under $2,500. Not to knock Lee's artwork, because this isn't one, but even if he is the best artist in comicdom, how does that rate compare with others?

I can't speak for others; only myself. If an artist can get people to pay $15,000, good for him. And honestly, I don't think saying that sharing a cup of coffee with the artist is priceless when tied into a $15,000 commission. It's part of the price. What I don't understand is how someone can pay that amount. Yes, the art is very good; yes, he is an influential artist, but $15,000 is a lot of money. Particularly when there are a lot of other artists who are excellent but don't command anything like that price. On a related note, I was wondering how long one of these commissions probably took him to do. Say 2 full days? Two 3/4 days? While value is not a function of time when it comes to art (as compared to say, construction work), it's still something worth thinking about. So if I wasn't clear before, then add me to the list of "not that kind of fan".

I disagree. I suggest you take a look at the work by Jason Shawn Alexander at his website. This is a page he did from Spawn and it can be bought for $350: This is an example of his commission rate at $1,680. That's a little over 1/10th the price: To say you want the experience of spending $15,000 for art is something, I guess, and what you bought is really nice, but at that price, I don't get it.

I am not. Yes, they are excellently drawn. But, there is other excellent work out there which, in my opinion, has more emotional impact—not because of the character setting but the flair the artist adds to the illustration work. Look at the feeling in the art from, say, Bruce Timm’s Naughty And Nice women or Tom Mandrake’s Spectre work, then look at the cost and compare it to the price for these commissions. I could see as much as $5,000 per piece, but not $ 15,000.