FSF

Another important element to consider is just how much money could be made from reholdering.  I'm fully convinced that CGC is probably holding off on this until there are many more holders with this issue so that they can reap an immediate windfall from just reholdering all of the cases that collectors and even dealers will want to reholder.  I only have a dozen or so slabs but even that is a couple of hundred easy dollars for them.  Add a potential few dozen slabs more that I could have in the next couple of years and all of sudden they have $1,000 of free money from me.  I don't care about the money.  I just want the issue corrected as soon as possible so that I don't burn out on the hobby with disgust. 

Add up all of the people that would reholder if Newton Rings were corrected, and I gotta believe that would probably easily pay for this equipment they have to buy almost immediately.  But of course, they could have a substantially better ROI if they accrued hundreds of thousands of more slabs with this issue. This reholdering seems like an imbedded part of Collectors Universe's model for obvious reasons and I'm betting that is also the case here. 

1 minute ago, VintageComics said:

You said you read those historical threads where literally everyone on the chat forum that posted about them complained but it doesn't sound like you did.

A 'large number of constituents' did complain and threads still pop up regularly to reopen the discussion but nothing is changing.

The only way change will happen is if it affects the profitability of the business. If people keep submitting it won't affect the profitability of the business. .

A significant amount of people would need to stop buying CGC slabs because of newton rings for it to affect CGC and that doesn't seem to be slowing significantly.  And since people keep submitting regardless, it won't change

 

 

I did read them and I'm bot sure what you're trying to say.  It proved NOTHING and I did not find any decent response from CGC.  As if "general consensus" means anything here.  The ONLY thing that ultimately matters is what CGC is going to do.

Profits right now are a function of a bunch of flippers.  It's easy flipping and making free money in an environment like today.  And who's to say they wouldn't get even more submissions if they didn't have this issue?  When the submissions dry up when the economy pulls back (and likely in a way that NONE of us have ever seen in our lives), we'll see how those submission do.

You're making the correlation here that the submission levels are somehow indicative that people are happy with CGC slabs.  I completely agree that people are happy with the MONEY that can be made from them, but not necessarily the slabs themselves (which you've already stipulated). 

Persistent complaints by a large number of constituents almost ALWAYS leads to change.  Your idea of giving up basically is letting CGC do whatever it wants to its customer base.

1 minute ago, VintageComics said:

If you're saying that the money always wins then welcome to the capitalist economy.

You're beating a dead horse.

Search for newton rings discussions from April to the fall of 2016 and read to your heart's content..

Maybe when they recoup from their investment from the product change back in 2016 they may have a solution in mind but nothing is changing anytime soon.

Your choices are to use CGC or go elsewhere.

I understand everything you're saying.  But almost ALL topics here and on every forum is about constantly beating dead horses.  Your choice is to read or ignore.  As for myself, I will post whatever I feel like whenever I feel like within the rules of the forum.

I have read the historical posts. What has that got to do with anything we are talking about here and now???  All you're saying is that people have already complained.  So what?  CGC can still take action at any time, which is the hope here.  Or are you saying that CGC has made some declarative statement that I missed which would be certainly of value and help with understanding their stance.

As for money being most fundamental in a capitalist economy, it's most fundamental in any economy.  But there is a shortsightedness that MANY businesses operate under, which limits the long-term success or for that matter it's basic viability.  Most businesses who ignore their customers eventually wind up paying for that in spades.

1 minute ago, VintageComics said:

So then you are adding a lot to cost.

I'm sure CGC has looked at options.

I can only think that any changes at this point would be price prohibitive. Then the additional costs of retooling (and of coming up with a complex mold as opposed to a simple sheet, which the top of the inner well now is) would then be passed onto the submitters who already have complained about every price hike.

I agree that newton rings are unappealing (and even unacceptable) but I just don't see it happening.

There are costs to everything for every business.  I have no idea of the dollars involved but if they want me to do a free ROI analysis for them, I'd be happy to. 

You may very well be right that nothing may happen but just think about how ridiculous that sounds.  Basically, you're saying that CGC is taking the position:

"We don't really care how the book looks inside the slabs."

Yet that is one of the most fundamental elements of their value proposition.

And while I'm no expert, I understand that their competitors don't have this issue.  If that is the case, WHY is that so?

I have NEVER seen any comparable issue in the dozens of generations of slabs that exist in the coin world or the sports card world.

CGC books are becoming like Picassos or Van Goghs with glass covers where the glass has been randomly painted all over the place largely obstructing the painting's beauty.  Who would really hang that in their home?

1 minute ago, VintageComics said:

It doesn't seem to have slowed down submissions.

That's because the entire economy has been inflated like a bubble pushing asset values of everything to the sky.  It has been purely a money function recently across comics, cards, whatever.  We'll see how they hold up when the calamity hits and there is no easy money to be made by virtually anyone in comics.

1 minute ago, VintageComics said:

This discussion was hashed out two years ago to death (and most agree with you). CGC isn't changing anything.

Well it would be ultimately to their detriment IMO.

If we're saying that it doesn't matter or who cares, then all we're saying is that CGC books are ONLY for investing (comics are a horrible investment IMO) or as a store of value.  Collecting means nothing if it doesn't matter that the book looks as sharp as can be.  This isn't some minor nuisance.  It really is a MAJOR eyesore.  I don't think of that as an opinion but objective fact.

11 hours ago, VintageComics said:

Because they would need to change either the materials the inner well is made out of or the outer holder (or both).

 

Obviously they would need to change something because what they're doing now isn't working.  I mean when a comic book is placed in a slab, you can't read it (not that you would really want to with a high dollar book).  All you have is the beauty of the front cover to appreciate.  And it's difficult and often impossible to appreciate when there are Newton Rings all over the place.  If CGC doesn't eventually correct this in the foreseeable future, I can't fathom I'll be collecting graded books for much longer.

http://darksilverstudio.com/PRINTS.html

First off, I am big fan of her work but am not affiliated with her in any way and have never met or talked to her.  I just want to be clear that I am not shilling here.  I've purchased a few dozen prints over the past few weeks and have been very pleased with everything I have received.  Anyway, I just want to give you folks a heads up that many of her prints are being sold for $5 each which is embarrassingly cheap.  Here is the link for those of you interested:

31 minutes ago, bmalone said:

So they were normal size books in deeper well cases?  Did you request them, and they still had the Newton Ring issue?

Yes, though not as plentiful.  I just don't understand why CGC can't get its act together on this issue.

T

I have had a couple of deeper wells that both had Newton Rings. No issues with moving around inside as I recall.

3 hours ago, justafan said:

This is my main discouragement for all cash transactions.  I usually bring enough for 1 or 2 large purchases where discount in CC fees is enough to merit using cash but I've heard dealers at a few cons talk about guys literally walking around with sacks full of cash in excess of $50k upwards to possibly $100k or more and spending it.  Now that must be a great show for the dealers that make those sales but I'd be hyper-paranoid about anyone who got too close to me.  One dealer had one of these guys basically pay full ask for the books they bought.  No haggling, just asked and paid.  I wonder if money laundering has made its way into comics or OA?

So do dealers usually not comply with the cash transaction reporting requirements where if someone buys a $15K comic for cash, they don't file a SAR (Suspicious Activity Report) on the transaction?

4 hours ago, 1Cool said:

Great - now buyers want sellers to offer books at 20% less than usually sells for on E-Bay and eat 7% in sales tax on all purchases.  Sign me up for the next Con!

I do agree it's nice to have one price but in our society the sales tax is almost always added to the end price so why shouldn't comic sellers do the same?

First off, it's not normal to charge tax at collectibles trade shows.  That's how it's always been and seems to be today.  So Id on't thing of sales tax at shows as being "almost always added".  In fact, I consider them rarely added, even when I've often paid by credit card, albeit they usually want the fees grossed up. 

Also, I'm not familiar with comic cons, but in cards and coins, buyers don't expect sellers at conventions to be selling at a discount to eBay.  In fact usually a fair amount more.  Unless you're referring to sellers who overprice on eBay as a matter of course and rarely ever actually sell anything.

3 hours ago, justafan said:

I guess the price of shipping out all those Heritage catalogs went up.  (trade tariffs?) I'll be adjusting my bidding accordingly.  Of course exceptions will probably be made for those must-have books.  It would be nice if they were to adjust the commission they charge sellers by an equal percentage decrease.

I'd venture to guess that large consignors are not even charged a commission and in fact get more than 100% of the hammer (pre buyers' premium).  At least that's how things work in their coin world.

6 minutes ago, bababooey said:

Daredevil would be my pick, it has almost always been good and the run going back to the 60's is self contained (not many crossovers or event garbage)

Having never read a Daredevil issue, I can't comment on the quality of the writing but the great thing about a Daredevil run would be the relative affordability.  Even for a few thousand bucks, you can get nice mid grade examples of the entire run.

4 hours ago, NoMan said:

here's an interesting question (to me) that's kinda tangential to the OP: What's a title that has been consistently good (writing & art) throughout its entire run?

You don't actually READ these things do you???

For instance, if I buy a $1000 at comic con, should I expect it to be closer to $1100 or is it assumed that the tax is baked in?

On 6/1/2018 at 6:16 PM, Gsims718 said:

PPSPM #1 KRS Comics virgin variant

CGC 9.8

$90

Take

I appreciate all the responses.  OC, I really like your idea because I always preferred the portfolio form factor for storage purposes but only ran across cheesy and/or flimsy looking options with pages that didn't look all that clear like mylar or apparently this polyglass situation.  Anyhow, it sounds like this is the thing I should be getting???:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000RP55PS/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza

For those of you who buy and store comic art prints (primarily of the 11 x 17 variety), what are the various common methods of storing them? 

I was thinking about Ultra Pro top loaders but they don't appear to be archival quality (not sure).

I would prefer to order mylar from E. Gerber but they have two different types (flaps and no flaps) and I'm confused. I'd love to see a pic of either if anyone has one

Any other common methods to consider?  

On 4/9/2018 at 5:25 PM, g-man said:

Supergirl #12 cgc 9.8 Artgerm variant $75 

 

 

I'll take it