detective35

From the same group!

Both are file copy quality!

Picked these up.a while back. Dwight

That was a one time occurrence only. I just bought a nicer copy with a blood red spine and white pages for $600

Contact Doug Ellis from the Windy City pulp and paper show. He would be able to help you

Here are a few new ones I picked up. Dime Detective classic cover 1933 Thrilling Mystery hi grade class a cover (I have another high-grade of this copy) One of my favourite spicy Mystery Covers, in high grade. July 1936 The Shadow (1941): 1st issue of the Canadian war time Shadows in high-grade (which not many people look for because the covers were not the greatest), but still cool. Spicy Adventure (Feb. 1937) The Shadow # 2 (1931) - nice copy The Shadow # 5 (1931) - Nice Copy! The Shadow - “Dead Men Live”: classic cover November 15, 1932 Black Book Detective - great cover

Nope!

Here is a Yakima Shadow pulp (Feb. 15, 1939) that was bought at a bookstore in Palo Alto,California in July, 2001. A group of pulps were sold to the bookstore by a family member of the Yakima collection back in 2001. **You can see where the influence for the cover of All Star Comics #3 came from!!**

There were many Yakima pulps sold by family members before Dave bought the large group at a later date. I was told by people who purchased them that it was kind of a free for all by the family members taking groups of pulps on their own

Great auction Doug!

Although skeleton covers are popular, the result of the Popular Detective was simply because it is a harder to get issue with L. Ron Hubbard. Any pulp that’s a little bit harder to get with Hubbard story will sell for a crazy amount because of the Hubbard Collector’s out there!

Absolutely! 👍

Wouldn’t that have been nice!

However if you throw out the one ridiculous and suspicious result for a Spider @comicconnect were somebody paid a crazy amount of money for a common copy, they (Spiders) didn’t go for an overly crazy amount. Matter of fact unless the Spiders were special covers or very high grades, they didn’t go that high at all, I was surprised. There were a few other Spiders, matter of fact 5 or 6 that went for the $600-$800 range (other than the number one), but they were high grade, as I won two of them. However you haven’t seen Shadows from 1933-37 ultra high-grade being offered at sale in any auction? A 1936 copy of the Shadow Partners of Peril in VF condition and Heritage with a severe Trimming sold for around $1000 The problem with the shadow is that there are so many copies of them in mid grade or mid to high grade, but when you see them in ultra high grade they can go for a very high price which I have seen and paid for privately. Subsequently the spiders are harder to find even in mid to high grade, so they will go for the a good price when they come up. Bring out some Shadows from 1931 to 33 in truly high grade condition and see how quickly they would blow the doors off even the first year spiders and many of them would blow away the #1. There are always going to be classic covers in each run and they are going to go for good dollars believe me. Even with the Docs that aren’t quite as flamboyant cover-wise, the prices for copies in the first year are skyrocketing. I know what you’re saying about the spiders because they have that crossover with the weird menace type of covers (Which I really like by the way), but following the market over years you’ll see that like any other run there are certain 10 to 12 Spider covers that people really like and will bid aggressively on, but that’s no different than any other run. I’ve carefully followed and monitored the market for the last 20 years and I buy and sell hundreds of high-grade Pulps every year, including this year and last year, so I’m constantly trying to keep ahead of the curve and what’s going to happen but who knows, But I wouldn’t sell the shadow short yet.

Yakima Pedigree came from a family in which the family members started to just go in and take a large quantities and start selling them. A chunk of them went to a local bookstore (later one’s), and then or sold to Dave Smith. A couple boxes of them did show up at eight comic show but basically the family was selling them the different sources outside of that as well.

Popular file Copies are not a pedigree. There is one Pedigree that is much earlier, more prominent, and can be identified easier. At some point in the future I will talk about it.

There were a number of Yakima’s sold the different people by different members of the family.

I understand what you’re saying about the weird menace type of covers that the Spider has that will be more appealing to some people. You might have the odd Spider surpass a Shadow or Doc Savage from 1935-38, if it’s a key cover However in general the Spider will never come anywhere close to the values of the Shadow or Doc Savage, especially in the early issues (It would be like a lightweight compared to two heavyweights, no contest). Note: There are many projects in the works for the Shadow with Condé Nast right now.

The Yakima Collection is very nice, but not the top pedigree in pulps, because it’s a little bit later Pedigree and not really in the sweet spot for pulps. Advanced pulp collectors know this. The Yakima collection is known because there were pedigree certificates made for the books for promotion, and being that most of them were sold in the early 2000’s, they were the most recent to the market with most most being offered for sale. The planets recently came up at Heritage, so comic people have heard a little bit about the Yakima collection However most of the Yakima's were not in the sweet spot” era of pulps (1930-38) especially early to mid 1930’s. The Yakima’s generally were later, from 1938 to 1950-ish (however there are earlier issues here and there, locked away in collections that would be very impressive). In comparison with comics, the church collection included the early comics/sweet spot in the late 30’s and early 40’s. If you were comparing time periods the Yakima’s would be more like the Promise Collection. Both were a little bit later collections in each of their genres. There is another prominent collection that came out 15 years before the Yakima’s, and from a much earlier time period (late 1933-39) that can be easily identified, (which I will explain at some point). There are also stunning Popular file copies that came out of books from 1932 to the mid-40s but they were distributed to multiple collectors. As well there were high-grade runs/Collections of many pulps that came out of the woodwork from various sources, but are locked away in collections. They had no markings on them so there’s no way that they can be identified once they were split up. Some of these collections had books from as early as 1923 and up to 1939. CHURCH One important note to remember is that there were Pulps at one time in the church Collection, but Edgar Church ripped off all the covers, keeping only the covers and not the interiors, as they probably took up too much space Dwight

Re: Spider pulp: I don’t think any sellers will go by that price if they have any experience in pulps. That was two people completely uneducated in the market. That cover is no better than a few of them around it and I’ve personally sold 8 to 10 copies of that book in better condition for $200. Therefore someone paid $6000 for a $200 book simply because they had no clue in the market. This is the proverbial I’ll sell you some “swampland in Florida” scenario.

Tim and I agree on many things and I also agree with the points that Buttock and Robot man made. In a perfect world I would like all trimmed pulps to be out into a purple label holder. I understand why CGC wants to “Blue label” trimming, unless the trimming is egregious. Purple labelling a ton of books at the beginning of pulp certification would not be good PR for the certification process of pulps It is a pet peeve of mine but I can live with it if it’s detailed and explained on the label with something like “hand trimmed” or “non-manufactured trimmed”, the level trimming stated, and the grade adjusted accordingly to a maximum grade that a book could get if it was trimmed. Dwight

Yes, There is trimming on the second. I cannot really tell by the first picture but it looks like there’s a little bit of an overhang on the bottom of the pulp. The bottom of the second picture looks like it’s razor sharp as well as the top. The right side has definitely been trimmed as well on the second one. If you look carefully , you can see on the right side there is a little bit of cover tearing or paper fraying (white). **That is a tell tale sign that some trimming has occurred.** I’ve spent a lot of time over the last 20 years dealing with thousands of pulps (many in nice shape), trying to identify the exact tell-tale signs of trimming, This includes comparing many issues of the same copy to each other, as well as carefully examining them under the Loop, which does help. However it’s not an exact science, especially with slight trimming. As Tim mentioned, you have people that trim all sides of the pulp, or just trim the top and bottom of the front cover (to fit on a shelf) Sometimes they post-trim them, after being jammed into a shelf, the overhangs are tattered, so they trim them off. I have seen the right side trimmed on the front cover only, but this would be done primarily to improve the appearance or the overhang as it could be tattered. Sometimes there is no rhyme or reason, they just decide to do some trimming, Some of it being done very well and some of it being a hack job and cut with the scissors Really I’ve seen many different types of trimming, and learning to identify some of the telltale signs of slate trimming is a key. Obvious trimming on all sizes pretty simple to see, It’s the Slight Trimming that’s well done it’s tougher to identify. Dwight

Absolutely Tim. I just want to ,make sure that the trimming is identified on the label and that new collectors know that this is not factory trimmed, it was done at home. I agree, trimming has always been done, and in the past, for many different reasons. I think we are saying the same thing. I agree that collectors in the past could do whatever they wanted to do with their own books. Hell, how many Mile-High's were given a dot of color touch back in the early 80's because at that time it was not that big of a deal. I think we are on the same page. I just want to make sure that if we blue label a trimmed pulp, the grade is affected. If it is a ridiculous trim with a scissor causing major damage, then purple label it. I just want to make sure that the new collectors coming into the market (especially the comic market where all comics are factory trimmed) know that trimming is a form of restoration or considered a defect and how this differs from factory trimming. I agree that slight trimming done well should not be hit as hard with the pulps as comics, but it still needs tp be noted in detail. Having this clearly stated on the label and the grade affected is important when money comes into play, if not, you could have people trimming books to enhance them, or create a narrative where trimmed books command the same value as untrimmed.

Tim, This is one area that has to be handled carefully. No matter what the reason trimming has to be noted on the label in detail as well as any other type of alteration done. The consumer/buyer has the right to know. I understand what you are saying about the multiple reasons for old-timers trimming, and your outstanding historical insight about hardcovers etc., specifically that were sent out with the buyers left to trim the covers to hardcovers to fit their library, and I have heard in some cases even the interior pages had to be trimmed as well. However hardcovers are different than Pulps, which are different than Comics. At no time have I ever heard or read in all my research that companies manufactured, then sent out pulps with overhangs, with the expectations that people would trim them to fit in their library. Whether a person feels that pulps were meant to be trimmed or not, motive can have no bearing when it comes to professional grading. They can be left in a blue label but the degree of trimming has to be noted, as it is a defect. I’m not saying that you disagree with noting the trimming, but I am going to list why identifying trimming is so important and thus noting it. Yes I have heard that reasons that old-timers trimmed Pulps, so that they better fit in a bookcase, etc. Or that they didn’t do it to make it look better or to deceive. Guess what, they should have had stored the damn things flat!! That’s like having a Painting or an expensive movie poster and cutting it down to 3/4 of the size and saying that’s OK, because at the time that was the standard size of most frames. I’ve seen that before. I’ve heard a similar argument with the reason why people taped the inside covers of the overhangs…. just simply protect the overhangs. Again It was common place, but still has yo be noted. I know this is different than the historical context of hardcovers being sent out consumers having to trim the covers etc. On the flipside I think we can still blue label trimmed pulp ,with the degree of trimming noted, and Matt can decide how it impacts the grade. In my opinion there certainly has to be some type of impact on the grade, because when money comes into play, you could have people simply trimming books to make them look better. Once you determine on whether the book is trimmed or not and the severity of it (which is not easy and some cases as I mentioned in the previous post), then you can note it on the label of the slab. If the Trimming is so slight that they not sure whether it was done or not, then give it the benefit of the doubt and don’t note anything. In any case, the marketplace will ultimately determine the value of a trimmed or altered pulp. Dwight

They’ve been working on the pulp slabbing details for months and months. The most challenging thing was to design a holder and an interior that would protect all different sizes of overhangs no matter what side they were more prominent, front or back cover. TRIMMING I’ll chat about this, because somebody mentioned it. In talking a few times with Matt about pulp slabbing, we did discuss trimming. I really can’t tell you anymore as Matt, would not disclose any details. He was just doing his due diligence and talking to people no pulps and possible slabbing in general. However, personally I feel that there has to be some notation of trimming or else you’d have every clown/scumbag trimming off the overhangs, just to get a higher grade. For me personally trimming is one of the worst things, but maybe not as bad for people coming in from Comics because they are used to having comic books factory trimmed. A blue label is fine, but I personally feel that there needs to be a clear notation saying “hand trimmed” because many people will Not know whether they were hand trimmed at home, or factory trimmed. Another reason to keep it out of the purple label is sometimes trimming is extremely difficult two squad were determined even if you’re an experienced Collector and seller. The problem is when trying to identify trimming you can have the same issue of the same title in the same month of different sizes of overhangs on top bottom etc. and most the time you can tell if it’s trimmed, even if it’s well done because there should be an overhang on either the top or bottom if they were the type of pulps that had overhangs. However I do have pulps that were bought right off the rack and put away as a handful of Shadows from 1937-39 from the Strasser or the Yakima collection,and they had very little to no overhang on the top and bottom, and I know the families, persons weren’t taking them out of the stacks and trimming a handful of books. At first appearance they seem trimmed, but they are not, even if other copies of the same month, do have an overhang on the top or bottom. The difference with Pulps is that there was little to no quality control during that time period. Sometimes trimming is easy to spot, and sometimes it is just really difficult to identify accurately, even if you have handled thousands of high-grade Pulps. Probably noting different levels of trimming is would be good to do, and yes the grade should be hammered. If it’s a real bad trim like with the scissors maybe put it in a purple label; all this is for Matt to decide. Why note Trimming A good example of this was the shadow “the partners of peril” that sold at heritage In the last pulp auction. (a few years back a group of shadows from 1935 to 1939 …including this copy of the partners of peril …were auctioned individually on eBay individually, they were all trimmed right to the cover edge and sold for next to nothing because no one wanted severely trimmed books). That issue should have large overhangs, but they were severely trimmed right to the cover edge, and that is severe when it’s on a Street and Smith Shadow pulp from 1936. Heritage to their credit, accurately noted “trimmed”, however when it’s below in the general description, newcomers to the hobby have no idea whether that means It was trimmed at home, or it was factory trimmed, or whether that’s acceptable or un acceptable. The result is a severely trimmed book sold for nearly a $1000. That is an example where slabbing would be good for that book in order to describe the type and level of trimming In order to give the buyer detailed information. I’m sure that these are all details that Matt will figure out, and I’m sure he’ll do a great job!