HuddyBee

alright, alright, point taken

Thanks for all the responses guys. Been gone y'all, and there is plenty to respond to in this forum. I realize some of you definitely don't trust my pressing methods. Look I aint rich, as you can see by my 3.0 BP1, (got it for $3.50 though) I can't afford pressing w/ a major company, so I see what I can do. I'm not a crazy collector either, and still working my way through the hobby. It worked. Thats all I can say. It might have brought out some of the acid in the paper, so increased the aging process, but hey the comics seem fine. This is why I only "pressed" 4 or so books. I recommend trying it. Why throw your money at a company that uses the exact same technology you have in your closet? (just a little fancier)

Hey look man, it worked. I didn't damage the comic. So.... I know I can't do better than a pro. But I can try. Sure I wouldn't iron an action 1, but a $10-100 book why not?

sorry about that, hope you tried on a $1 book

So, I had heard of people pressing comics before with just an iron, and decided to give it a try. I tried just ironing out waviness, and water damage, however I found the iron to be less effective with that sort of defect. (although it will get rid of it, just with a lot of work and time) However I found an iron is the perfect way to get rid of spine rolls on a comic. All I did was put the iron with NO steam on the highest setting, realigned the roll across from the spine, held it down with my hand, and slowly ironed over the spine. I had to do this a couple of times per spine roll, so as to not rip the staples, and to do it more cleanly. I also did not iron the comic directly, I ironed it with a piece of parchment paper on top, and a flat piece of wood underneath. I ironed it by swiveling and shimmying the iron all along the spine, as I would a shirt. Make sure to not just leave the iron stationary as it might leave creases and dents from the edge of the iron. Also make sure to check for the paper getting burnt, be also aware that sometimes after prolonged iron contact the inks might be brought of the page on to the parchment paper. The results, for me, where very good, and I was very impressed with what I could do with just about 15 mins a spine roll. Check out the results below. I attached a lot of before and after pics, they're not perfect, but there is definitely an improvement in grade and presentability, about an 0.5-1.0 bump in grade (IMO). I might've gone a little overkill with pictures, but I'm just trying to show you all I've done. I pressed out even more spine rolls, and major creases with other books. Really anyone can do this, its super easy, and just takes some experimentation, so use a crappy $1 book, and see what you can do. Next time you think about sending a book to get pressed, check out this post, and feel free to inquire of any details on how to do this.

I'm hearing all this talk about MSH 13, and have been for a while, but what about what my man 1Cool said, Hawkman 4 anyone?

Yeah, I understand why you wouldn't trust PGX, I do and I'd be fine with it, but I understand. To each is own, eh?

Yeah, I've really only been looking on Ebay, since I really can't seem to find many at cons. I got a copy about 2 years ago, a 1.8 for about $50, (for my Hawkman run) which thought was a pretty good deal, since then we've seen 1.8's for $100+. I don't really know why its been heating up though. It's not a super common book, so that could be part it. but other than that I got no idea. (aside from it being 1st zatanna of course)

I wasn't saying GRADE it w/ PGX, I was saying get it PRESSED by them, then get it graded by CGC it'll save ya a lot of $$$

That's why you don't use CGC. (or CCS)

Anywho, anyone been noticing Hawkman #4, the first Zatanna, has been heating up recently. I've seen a decent amount of low to mid grade copies sell for a lot more recently (the past year or so), not so much with the high grades though. Thoughts?

I'd still press, there are definitely some cheaper pressing and cleaning services out there. But hey, to each is own. Sweet book nonetheless.

I dunno I've never used 'em, but I do know they charge an arm and a leg in additional fees, for $$$ books. If you were just going to get it graded, you'd have to pay an at least an additional $3,000 in fees, so I imagine its not that much different for grading I might've been exaggerating when I said PGX would do it for $100, probably more like $300-1K, but still nowhere close to what CGC (or should I say CCS) would charge.

It's not a misuse if you keep in mind what I said earlier, "of course this change usually will occur alongside a steady upward moving constant." What I've said is true. Obviously Newton wasn't referring to comics when discovering these natural laws, but it can apply. If you don't understand it or what I meant by it, then read my post and all my posts explaining it. I have, for your convenience, quoted a quote of my quote below: As you can see I explained what I meant by my using Newtons 3rd Law of Motion. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, which will (usually w/ comics) occur along a slowly upward moving constant. If you read all that I said and took it into account, you would realize it is not an unfortunate use of his Law of Motion. But, unfortunately, it seems you did not read all that I posted. As you would put it:

I realize y'all hate PGX since we're on the CGC boards, but you can just get it pressed by them for about no more than $100 if you add additional fees. So... expensive??? I'd do it, but than again I've never handled a book worth 100K+ so whadda I know?

I wish I could land a copy of SC 30, but its just too much for me to pay for that level of a key. Who knows? Maybe I'm only engaging in this debate, because I'm just jealous I cant land a copy of SC 30.

I 100% agree. Note what I meant by "crash." I stated: Rarely will comics, or any collectible, over a decent period of time return to lower prices or less than lower prices, than a steady upward growth along a constant. Take this for example: Imagine a book grows on average $2 a month. That growth will continue regularly and only change slowly. (usually) A book will only crash as far as it can, as it goes along with that constant of $2 a month. (again usually) So lets say in two years that book increases about $50 by the means of that constant. Let's say just for fun this book originally was worth $200. In that two years, 5 months prior the end of the two years, the book suddenly spiked, and rose $10 a month for 5 months, and then crashed. The book usually will not crash to below $250, because of its steady growth by a constant of $2 a month. It will have peeked at $300. So in the end in those two years the book grew by a steady constant of $2 a month to $250. But in the middle it peaked at $300 and crashed and lost $50. The book only crashed the amount that it grew, but since the book was moving at a slow constant of $2 a month, it still gained value. Note: this is purely a hypothetical situation. Now this is usually how collectibles increase in value. Silver Age books haven't been observed for that long of a time, so this model could be completely inaccurate. But it is still interesting to take into account, and is the reason I don't consider a lot of the Marvel Silver Age keys to be good investments, because yes it will increase in value, but maybe not at the point its at now. A lot of good stuff coming from this "debate," I have surely enjoyed it.

Undervalued??? G copies on ebay are selling for $300+ This book is far from undervalued. Everyone knows its not his first appearance, its only his first solo book, and its not even a #1. I'll give you it's a significant book, but not that significant! No one gave a snot about Aquaman 10 years ago. The price increase has only to thank bandwagoners and superficial movie hype. If only well informed collectors where buying this book, it would be worth less than AC 260 and Aquaman 1, as they would realize the importance of one and the unimportance of the other. Its not that rare. There's 500+ copies on the census, plus probably 500 more raw. Everyone seems to think their favorite comic book/character is "undervalued." It's not. SC 30 is only "undervalued" when compared to half the Marvel "keys." Most DC books I will say are "undervalued," when you compare them to marvel, especially when taking into account their rarity. But if we're going to talk about undervalued DC books, SC 30, is far from the top of the list. A book like this should be worth about as much as SC 34 and BB34, thats about the level its on in terms of "keyness." Books like these are only going up because of Movies and superficial hype. These kinds of books are subject to that kind of change. (you'll notice Action 1/Detective 27, barely go up in value with hype) When you have books that aren't crazy rare, its more subject to change with movies and hype. So a book like SC 30 can shoot up. But people aren't going to be on the Superhero Movie train forever. The fad will die down. And when that happens SC 30 will be far from the top. When judging if a book is under or over valued you have to look at it save the hype. Take into consideration the movie and how much the book fluctuates. Books that shoot up are more likely to shoot down. Books that slowly work their way up without Movie hype, are more likely to stay put or continue upward, or at worst slowly work their way down. (of course this change usually will occur alongside a steady upward moving constant) It's as my good friend Isaac Newton put it, "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

Part of this is what I've been saying. SC 30 and Aquaman 1 have both shot up in price because of this movie. I think a lot of this addition in value is superficial, as I do with many marvel books going for ridiculous amounts of money now, due to movies. For some reason AC 260 has not been influenced, to the same degree, as SC 30 and Aquaman 1, despite it being arguably the greatest key for that character. This is what makes me suspicious of the increase in value. Is it all just hype? And will it crash soon? I think so. I may be wrong. But I believe AC 260, would be the most stable book, in terms of price fluctuation. IMO

My point is the market doesn't decide keys. Sometimes the market gives too much value to a certain book at a certain time. Just because a book is worth $ now doesn't make it a key, or even important. I'm not saying AC 260 will spike tomorrow, but in the long run it will do better than SC 30. The market currently places lots of value on SC 30, just like the market placed a lot of value in "The Death of Superman" in the 90s. But we see where that led. The market has no bearing on the keyness or importantness of a book.

The Market can be wrong. Surely you don't think the market was right in the 90's. In fact it was the market's incorrectness the caused the comic crash in the 90s. The market went crazy for "The Death of Superman" in the 90s. How's that "investment" paid off?

K, thanks. I'll search for the link. I still think it's a full reboot. Lets consider the Hawkman reboot in BB 34-36, 42-44, which we can all agree is a full reboot. GA Hawkman - Carter Hall, SA Hawkman - Carter Hall (and Katar Hol) GA Hawkman - flight/enhanced strength, SA Hawkman - flight/enhanced strength, can talk to birds GA Hawkman and SA Hawkman - same costume (w/ minor differences) GA Hawkman - Museum Curator/Archaeologist, SA Hawkman - Museum Curator/Archaeologist GA Hawkman - reincarnated Egyptian prince, SA Hawkman - Alien policeman from Thanagar GA Aquaman - (name?) SA Aquaman - Arthur Curry (first revealed as his name in AC 260) GA Aquaman - breathe underwater/talk to fish, SA Aquaman - breathe underwater/control fish telepathically GA Aquaman and SA Aquaman - same constumes GA Aquman - regular human, trained to breathe underwater (no real super powers), SA Aquaman - Atlantian/Human hybrid who can breathe underwater (has real superpowers) As you can see the Hawkman reboot consisted of very small changes, the only major one occurring with his origin. This is the exact same with the full Aquaman reboot. As far as I can tell Aquaman might have had even more changes made to the character, those of which were detailed in his reboot in AC 260. Aquaman was published continually from GA to SA, but that's the only real difference between the two reboots detailed above. (but is that really proof ta say it wasn't as full reboot) Aquaman's reboot was not as glamorous as Hawkman's, but if Hawkman's was a full reboot (which it was), then Aquaman's is a full reboot. So yes, it is correct to say "First SA Aquaman," just an interesting way to look at things.

Agreed, I snagged a AC 260, but SC 30 is just to expensive even in low grade for my budget. My only question is, why isn't it a full reboot? Sure the character looks the same, but Hawkman looked exactly the same in his reboot. Sure he's got the same powers as is GA counterpart, so did Flash, GL, and Hawkman. So if you ask me compared to those reboots, AC 260 is a full reboot of the character. I get that Aquaman was published continually thru the GA and SA, but who's to say a reboot cant happen on the fly. The SA and GA Aquamen are two completely unrelated different people with different origins. So if you ask me AC 260 is a full reboot despite continued publishing, and should be up there with SC 22 and BB 28, or at least on par with SC 34 and BB 34. I guess people are just missing out on a huge key, just cause CGC doesn't have the balls to put "First S.A. Aquaman" on the label. Also Ive heard the argument for AC 229, which is completely ridiculous. Its not anything because the start of the silver age isn't an agreed upon defined point, (if ya ask me its when they introduced the CCA) and if it was it would just be the "First Aquaman in S.A." And there's a big difference between that and "First S.A. Aquaman." Also, do you got a link to that one thread ya'll keep alluding to in these SC 30 v Ac 260 debates? I'd love to read it.

I know this is a super old post, but could someone direct me to this thread. I've read all up on what I can find on the SA Aquaman debate, but I've yet to have found this original thread. Does someone know where it is? A link maybe? Also if anyone wants to beat this dead horse anymore, tell me what y'all think about SC 30 and AC 260. P.S. By the way this is what I've learned... Adventure 260- 1st SA Aquaman Adventure 229- nothing Showcase 30- nothing

Metamorpho and Adam Strange If we're talkin' straight up best Silver Age character original or unoriginal, then Katar Hol Hawkman by far.