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Lazyboy
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Posts posted by Lazyboy
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Jaydog;
I think you guys should just take a look at the OS guide for these 2 listings and admit that Overstreet got it right, based upon the following:
1) Hulk 181 is signficantly more valuable than Cerebus 1 in the lower grades, with this differential decreasing on a percentage basis as we move up the grading scale, which actually reflects the rising price of Cerebus 1 in the real world as it becomes more scarce in nicer condition;
2) Cerebus 1 is more valuable than Hulk 181 in the HG 9.2 condition, as clearly evident by comparable historical sales in 9.2 and above;
3) Overstreet does not attempt to place a valuation for uber HG copies, and in particular, not for CGC 9.9 copies of any book;
4) The prices in the OS guide are reflective of comic book valuations, as opposed to comic book popularity; and
5) These valuations are not based upon the quantities of a particular book sold, otherwise the latest newstand issue of Action Comics would be worth more than Action Comics #1.
I know and completely understand that it must be hard for you to accept the above facts, but it's totally okay and actually healthy for you to admit that you are wrong every now and then.
...and even in the world of Overstreet, using its own limited and selective methodology this is your game changer:
-J.
Except that now you're trying to use a case where one sale or a handful of sales is actually irrelevant. If there are only a handful of sales, but they are consistent, that is the value. If there are a large quantity of sales and a handful that fall outside the range of the majority, the majority is the value, not the outliers.
Of course, that may actually be the value for Hulk 181 in 9.2 going forward, but that remains to be seen.
Again, now everyone is trying to use the "but it's scarce" argument to their advantage, and hulk 181's greater numbers in grade to its potential disadvantage (other sales at 9.2 possibly diluting this high sale), when that is in fact the problem in the first place, per the OP's original post. No, three sales in ten years don't tell me anything definitive. But that Hulk 181 sale just happened. If two more like it happen in the next nine years would that prove a "trend" to you like it evidently does for Cerebus 1?
-J.
You can't solely rely on GPA data, especially in a discussion about a list found in the Overstreet Price Guide. GPA has only been referenced because it is the most obvious available data.
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Jaydog;
I think you guys should just take a look at the OS guide for these 2 listings and admit that Overstreet got it right, based upon the following:
1) Hulk 181 is signficantly more valuable than Cerebus 1 in the lower grades, with this differential decreasing on a percentage basis as we move up the grading scale, which actually reflects the rising price of Cerebus 1 in the real world as it becomes more scarce in nicer condition;
2) Cerebus 1 is more valuable than Hulk 181 in the HG 9.2 condition, as clearly evident by comparable historical sales in 9.2 and above;
3) Overstreet does not attempt to place a valuation for uber HG copies, and in particular, not for CGC 9.9 copies of any book;
4) The prices in the OS guide are reflective of comic book valuations, as opposed to comic book popularity; and
5) These valuations are not based upon the quantities of a particular book sold, otherwise the latest newstand issue of Action Comics would be worth more than Action Comics #1.
I know and completely understand that it must be hard for you to accept the above facts, but it's totally okay and actually healthy for you to admit that you are wrong every now and then.
...and even in the world of Overstreet, using its own limited and selective methodology this is your game changer:
-J.
Except that now you're trying to use a case where one sale or a handful of sales is actually irrelevant. If there are only a handful of sales, but they are consistent, that is the value. If there are a large quantity of sales and a handful that fall outside the range of the majority, the majority is the value, not the outliers.
Of course, that may actually be the value for Hulk 181 in 9.2 going forward, but that remains to be seen.
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Essentially the true "value" of the book is skewed mightily by the low print and nothing else.
So you're saying the value of the book is based on the low supply and the demand for the book? That's an interesting idea. I think you may have something there.
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What CGC labels books matter to many people who do not buy CGC books, but buy raw copies. I think you are drastically underestimating the influence CGC has on the market. People do not have to buy into CGC to pay attention to what they are doing with certain books.
The main point people are missing when thinking that CGC issue notes have a major influence on the market is that there usually aren't many CGC graded copies available for books that aren't/weren't already established as keys.
The general steps for hot books are as follows:
1. Market somehow decides which book is important for under-appreciated/totally ignored character now (or potentially) being used in other media
2. Prices rise
3. Prices rise more and draw serious attention
4. Flood of copies sent to CGC
5. Prices rise more
6. CGC graded copies start returning and being sold
7. CGC graded copy sells for ridiculous amount
8. Bigger flood of copies sent to CGC
By the time the CGC issue notes can really have any influence, the market has already decided on the book and value.
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People paying that for a 9.8 when low grade high grade (but probably not 9.8) copies are available for a buck are completely insane.
Fixed.
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Yeah, the SPLATT Moon Knights have been good sellers for years.
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Dan - We just have different business models, but it's still the market. I don't care if the books I list ever sell. Period. I assign a value that I think it's worth - it's got nothing to do with the Greater Fool theory as that always takes more than one fool to make it happen. Arguably, an auction, is the Greater Fool theory in action. An auction with a high entry price is a more accurate gauge of the free market.
What an buyer is willing to pay and what a seller is willing to sell at (essential Adam Smith and Thomas Payne stuff here). 
I would argue that your sales - which are great, and good for you - aren't the market because they're outliers. Show me an average $24 selling price for Shazam 7 over a period of time, and then that would be the market.
Nothing is this thread relates to establishing the "market price" for a book. Why ignore real sales and underprice your books in search of the errant auction behavior? To me, those are outliers (if the term is meaningful at all)
Heating up means a pattern. A pattern means multiple sales in the same price range. Multiple sales in the same range equals the market price. Buying a $50 book for $2 doesn't make it worth $2 and selling a $5 book for $20 doesn't make it worth $20.
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Is Spawn #1 the first appearance book that sold the most copies ever? I can't think of another book that did Spawn 1 type numbers that was a first appearance.
No...Adventures of Superman #500 featured the first appearance of both Steel and Cyborg Superman, and sold about twice as many copies.
That would be Superboy (Kon-el/Connor Kent) and Steel (John Henry Irons) as well as the first appearance of the Eradicator as a humanoid and the first Hank Henshaw as the Cyborg Superman.
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Is Spawn #1 the first appearance book that sold the most copies ever? I can't think of another book that did Spawn 1 type numbers that was a first appearance.
As RMA already noted in this thread, Adventures of Superman 500 sold more than Spawn 1.
EDIT: Grab a snack while reading a thread and look what happens.
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To keep it simple I rather have a Batman adventures 12 than a spawn 1. I actually own both but 1 obviously trumps in people's thoughts and minds, or else spawn would be an expensive book and it isn't... I know he WAS popular. But kings and queens get de-throned easily in the comic world. Most major collectors wouldn't buy a spawn 1 over a batman adventures 12. If there was a movie with Harley, it would probably even double the price it is now.
Yeah, because supply isn't half of the equation for value. -
why is the man who laughs l getting all the love right now? ive got a ss 9.8 brubaker. should i sell?
No special heat right now. Man Who Laughs has been a $25-$50 book for years now. The time to sell was a few years ago, before the hardcover reprint came out.
If you look, the book received one bid. Not exactly "heating" up.
More relevant to this thread, the book is from two thousand
five . Not Copper or even the post-Copper (90s) range that is commonly discussed in this section. -
Somebody got shilled all the way to the cleaners:
X-Factor #24 $137.50
But why would they bid that much in the first place?
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time is a flat circle.
ASM 430 and 431 have been getting a lot of attention lately.
More than usual?
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I don't get it. Cover of 18 shows his left fist covered up. Last panel of the door slamming shows his hand ripped through it.
That is kind of funny. I guess they didn't tell Bogdanove that they were going to have the covering torn off in the build-up panels in the other titles.
Soooo, the cover of 18 takes place prior to the door punching in 17, making 18 his true first appearance. Where is my no-prize 
The covering wasn't torn in MoS 17. The picture is right here, like two posts up! 
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I don't follow modern books but is livewire hot now in new books?
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Don't forget the difference in print runs.
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Multi-pack reprint
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Yeah, that kind of defect can be "fixed" but it won't really be any better.
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No, 17 is the first brief appearance (one page, four panels, covered arm only) and the three other Superman titles each have their own similar page with four panels showing the progression of Doomsday breaking the wall of his prison.
If this is your argument, I rest my case . . .
They are NOT the same page.
You need to get off your duff and actually read the books.
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No, 17 is the first brief appearance (one page, four panels, covered arm only) and the three other Superman titles each have their own similar page with four panels showing the progression of Doomsday breaking the wall of his prison.
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Don't get me wrong...I can't wait for the new issues, either. But the series deserves a bigger audience...it's no good, long-term, if the only people looking forward to the continuation of the story are those of us old fogeys who have been waiting 20+ years. Has Marvel's re-release garnered ANY new fans?
At the ridiculous prices on the books? It seems highly doubtful.
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That has to be one of the stupidest things I have ever read.
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You don't need shill accounts when all your "auctions" are just BINs with a very slim chance to go higher.
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I just came across a Transformers 8 2nd printing. I wasn't aware they reprinted any of those issues...
There are 3 copies graded.
James G
1 and 7-9 had multiple printings for sure, and I would assume other early issues did as well.
What an buyer is willing to pay and what a seller is willing to sell at (essential Adam Smith and Thomas Payne stuff here). 
five . Not Copper or even the post-Copper (90s) range that is commonly discussed in this section.
The covering wasn't torn in MoS 17. The picture is right here, like two posts up! 
Cerebus 1 a more valuable key than Hulk 181? Really Overstreet? Poll on Page 87
in Bronze Age Comic Books
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