RockMyAmadeus

I think there are a lot funner ways to throw $30k out the window. Like literally throwing it out the window...it's always fun watching people lose their dignity over flying cash.

yeah, yeah...

That cover was listed on Anthony's last year for around 2 grand. Haven't you guys heard? Everything is worth $10,000,000 now. Sure, whether it's this cover, or Maxx 1/2 test versions, Vengeance of Vampirella #1 Royal Blue, or anything comics related, you buy it for a certain amount, and then immediately put it back on eBay for 10x+ that amount. That's how it works now. I should buy that cover and list it for $500,000.

So...any hint of Warlock, anywhere...?

Nexus, if I'm not mistaken, is not a variant. It's just a signed and numbered edition. Got a pic of the Eagle Special Edition? Thundermace #1 works. (That's obscure!) The Milestones all came out in 1993, just after DI #1. Valeria, Deathwatch in 1993 after DI #1.

What I found potentially inaccurate was the idea that they came from PRE-DCU 20 packs.I think it's quite safe to say that, in the case of these two, that wasn't the case. My point about cover markings is that the DC bullet...or any other non-UPC logo in the UPC box (that is, neither Direct nor newsstand) are Collector pack books. I see (and did not know) that there were DCU only classifiers. In my mind, they're all part of the same group of issues, specially made for the collector packs of the mid-90s. I consider the bullet issues and the zero hour issues...and any others...to be "DCU" editions, or, more correctly, "collector pack" editions, made for the same purpose, often at the same time, and distinguishable by cover markings from the regular Direct or newsstand releases. It's too bad we didn't have a message board community that could document these as they came out.

I don't know that that's quite accurate. The cover marking program for the DCUs began with the Jan 94 cover dates, with others which were reprinted as necessary from previous issues always having that cover marking (DCU or other.) There are several Batman collector pack "DCUs" that have the bat symbol. Same as the Zero Hour "DCUs" with the zero hour symbol. You guys have been including them in your DCU counts, right...? In any event, both the #14 and #16 "first prints" with the bat symbol or bullet are collector pack copies.

Wow. You can almost see the scantily covered women...

I think about that fact on a regular basis. When I bought my first comics...summer of 1989...the oldest silver age book (Showcase #4) was only 33 years old. The Marvel universe as we know it was only 28 years old. Spiderman #1 is 28 years old in about a month and a half.

Thank you! Yes, indeed!

No, none of the Valiant golds and other variants were ordering incentives. They were, like the others, gift books, to be handed out to stores or fans as Valiant saw fit. There aren't very many before 1993. They would qualify, but I can't think of any from March of 1993 or earlier. There are tons and tons of them from 1993, 1994, 1995...but before then, hardly any. Example: Amazing Spiderman #358 was the first "gatefold" issue in the run. But the newsstand version was also a gatefold. ASM #365 was the first hologram issue in the run....but the newsstand, aside from the UPC and price box, was identical. Same with #375. It's not until we get to issue #388 (1994) that we have a deluxe version, and non-deluxe version that was different. Same with FF. #358 was the first "gimmick" variant, but the newsstand was the same. #371 was the same as well. Same with #375. It's not until we get to #387 that you have a deluxe version and a regular. I suppose we can add Eclipso: The Darkness Within #1, since this was made both with, and without, the gem. Wildcats #2 wouldn't qualify, because the Direct edition and the newsstand were sold in different markets, and one wasn't designed to be a variant of the other. If you have any other examples from Mar 1993 or before, please feel free to share them.

That's not correct. Venom Lethal Protector #1 Gold was a gift variant, for stores that ordered so and so many copies. It was not an ordering incentive. And that wasn't the first time a publisher had rewarded things to retailers for ordering so and so many. For instance...every store that ordered so many copies of X-Men #1 received a silver hologram card. For every store that ordered so many MORE copies got the gold hologram card. I think...not sure at all, but I think...those numbers were 100 and 500. There's a difference., and it's an important one. If you have any documentation that says otherwise, please provide it. The mechanism for having ordering incentives simply didn't exist in 1993. These were given out as the result of orders, not to increase more orders. Can you imagine, the logistical nightmare of tracking incentive orders from the 20 to 30 national distributors that existed in 1993, not to mention the hundreds of sub-distributors? What if retailers ordered from multiple distributors (and some did, for varying reasons)...? That program could only be effectively enacted once there was only ONE national distributor: Diamond. Diamond tracks all those incentives, they tell the publishers how many to print, and the publisher gives the order to the printer. The publishers deal solely with Diamond. There were major problems with distribution in the early 90s already, which is why the Distribution Wars took place. Can anyone imagine the chaos if they threw incentive ordering into the mix...? People would be screaming bloody murder. No, the publishers simply kept track of what the distributors ordered, and sent them enough of the variants to cover them, telling the distributors that they were gifts to retailers who ordered such and such amounts.

Yeah, they did several of those. I would imagine that the $1.95 cover price means that it was in 1995. 1996 seems too late, but maybe. By 1997, standard comics went to $2.25. I'd have to pull one out to see. I don't know of a list of them, but....I have the feeling there weren't a lot of them.

Ah yes...ok, I have that one. Helps to see it to jog the memory. They also did this one: And the rest of the set...plus a few others. I *think* that would have been...God, I don't remember anymore...1994? 1995? I remember when they came out. Of course, they were dirty reprints, and nobody wanted those. Thanks David Buck! 20 posts in 13 years. You're a quiet one!

Same with #14:

The other three are the Direct, newsstand, and collector's pack (which you knew.) I would love to find out more about this giant collectors pack. What is the BA #1 Silver? Is there anything special about the Mask of the Phantasm? When was it made? Was it officially licensed? (it would have to be, but......) If someone has a copy handy, check out the ads, and lets see if we can match them up to a later date.

Maybe. I'm not so sure. I'll have to dig them out at some point and see. But that set that David Buck posted is fantastic. That box must have been huge. I've never seen a collection like that. Now I need one. Did you see where it says "Batman Adventures #1 Silver Edition"...?

EXCELLENT! I had no idea about #16! (Or, I'm confusing #13 with #16, and have one. Either way.) Thank you! That's a FANTASTIC find! I've never seen a package like it!

I do. Somewhere.

I did a quick calculation in my head before I went to sleep last night, and came up with the following. At the time DI #1 was published, there were less than 60 total variants that had ever been published. Ever. That's fewer variants than ASM #666 or Godzilla #1 (2011.) And more than a 1/3rd of those were encompassed by a single title: Deadworld. Take that out, and you have fewer than 40. (For the purposes of this discussion, the definition of "variant" is a book that was published with a purposely made difference distinguishing it from the "regular" item, for sale in the same market, at the same time, and marketed based ON that distinction, which would exclude the price variants, the "back cover variants" from Gold Key of the late 60's, and the various DC "purple" variants of the early 70's, as well as reprints, which were considered rubbish until the early 21st century.) In roughly chronological order: Turtles #3 Adventurers #1 Man of Steel #1 Justice League #3 Firestorm #61 Critters #22 Deadworld #5-25 (21) Legends of the Dark Knight #1 (4) Sandman #8 Dark Horse Presents #36 Spiderman #1 Silver & Platinum Cry For Dawn #6, 7, 8, 9 Executive Editions X-Men #1 (4...Deluxe Edition is a REPRINT) Archer & Armstrong #0 Gold Unity #0 Red Eternal Warrior #1 Gold Unity #1 Gold & Platinum Dark Horse Presents: Aliens Platinum Wildcats #1 Gold Robocop Vs. Terminator #1 Platinum Brigade #1 Gold Hard Corps #1 Gold Superman #75 Platinum Predator vs. Magnus Robot Fighter #1 Platinum Youngblood #0 Gold Magnus #21 Gold Did I miss any...? And, as mentioned, the vast majority of these were distributed according to the designs of the publisher. They were most certainly not "ordering incentives", because there was no way for a publisher to gather all the disparate information from disparate distributors to determine who got what and how. Some were simply sent out without any advance notice, as is the case with LOTDK #1, Adventurers #1, and Dark Horse Presents #36. Some were mistakes that turned into variants, like Turtles #3. Some were orderable as variants, like Deadworld, Spiderman #1 Silver, or X-Men #1. Some were gifts from the publisher, like Spiderman #1 Platinum or Dark Horse Presents Aliens: Platinum. Some were made to be handed out or sold at conventions, like most of the Image variants. Of course, 1993 would see the big explosion of variants, and there would be more variants published that year than all previous years combined...but we weren't quite there yet.

Hey, anything is welcome. Theorizing out loud may jar other memories. This community has pretty well explained the reason for the vast majority of these books, but these two remain a mystery. While there are certainly similar books, there is absolutely nothing else from DC that is exactly like these two. What made these two special? Why would they be printed with no cover price? They certainly weren't printed because of demand; not even the fairly well selling #1 or #7 got that treatment. Yes, that's certainly a clue. How many of you have never heard of and/or seen this before this thread? I ran across one of these a couple of years ago, and was completely dumbfounded that such a book would exist. By the way....if anyone's interested, the picture I posted is of a copy for sale on eBay at the moment, and not by me, and it's fairly cheap, all things considered.

The printer probably has no idea. They don't ask why when they receive an order. They just print. It's possible not even DC knows at this point. I wonder what it would take to convince them to get an archivist's permission to dive through their records... I wonder if they brought their records out to CA....

When I talk about "what I do", I invariably say that I am a "collectibles dealer." And I'll be honest, being a "collectibles dealer" is a lot more respectable than being a "comic book dealer", though, in my view, I am neither. But explaining pressing and Sig Series and the like gets into the weeds that most people won't understand, and eyes start to glaze over. In any event, people usually go "ooo, that's cool!" and they then talk about their own collectibles experience, or the experience of a collector they know. And I will use that conversation as a springboard into collectibles in general, and why they form such an important part in Western civilization, and the reason is because something that someone defines as a "collectible" is so because that thing, or genre, is tied to positive experiences and feelings in their lives. It doesn't necessarily have to be tied to childhood, but childhood is obviously when most people make their longest lasting memories. So, if someone traded Yankees cards in the mid-50s with their friends, and that was a positive experience for them, there's a much higher chance that they'll be interested in obtaining those items later in life. They are a touchstone, a time machine, to good feelings and memories of positive experiences. The reason "manufactured collectibles" like those plates and Franklin Mint products...and anything else like that...rarely becomes attached to any sort of positive feelings or experiences. People who buy them usually buy them because they become convinced they will be "worth money", not because they spent time with their mom, or grandmother, hanging up those plates on the wall as a kid (though, certainly, some of them do.) Anything made "as a collector's item" almost certainly never will be, Marvel's cover copy aside, because without that connection to the past in some way, no one will ever spend anything worthwhile pursuing them later. Buying them, keeping them in "mint condition", storing them away, and never looking at them again creates no positive memories or experiences. Without that, there's little hope for value in the future.

Suffice it to say that, even with all of that, the gold and platinum versions are still far, far more "scarce" than the newsstand version. And that's true even when we consider ultra high grade: most of the golds were destroyed...irrevocably...by the heat seal on the bag they came in. Some of the heat seals left deep indentations that can't be pressed out of the embossed, cardstock cover...and some of them took the ink right off. So forgot many examples of 9.8s of that particular book. Don't believe the uninformed hype.

Ha! I hadn't intended to write that much, but Mr. Nobel and his "rarecomics" blog is ripe with errors and mistakes that need debunking.