RockMyAmadeus

Considering I find HG copies of this book 24/7 and CGC has already graded almost 10k copies.... Yes this book has a pretty big print run and very common, however it is now a mega key of the copper age. No difference now in ASM 300 and NM 98. Blue chip book. 250K copies is a lot for our hobby even back then. 250k print run....about 175-200k copies (maybe) surviving. And that was about average for most of Marvels at that point. Uncanny was selling almost double that, and McFarlane's Spiderman had a print run 4x+ that. You missed an easily pressable 9.8, but the dealer (as usual) was asking too much for what it was at that point.

I had 5 9.8s that I got slabbed at WWLA in 2008. Struggled to sell the last one at $160 in 2012 ish. All recorded in GPA. Good thing I have more copies.

Oh, and no, X-Force #1 is NOT the "second best selling comic of all time." First, the "5 million figure" is totally unconfirmed. Second, Superman #75, with its four printings, actually sold 4 million first printings, which forced DC to go to three more subsequent printings.

First, wanna thank RMA [still out there?] for this insightful look at this question. No, that print run is pretty well established, within a couple 10,000 or so. Will the book cool off? Who knows? Strange new world we're in.

Most everything Liefeld says must, must, MUST be taken with several grains of salt. Example: "My editors said, "Rob, can we fast-track Deadpool? This is the most mail we've seen on a character in 15 years. People love him." It's why Deadpool is a trading card with "X-Force" #1, and a Fact File, and why he is the first 12 pages of "X-Force" #2. "X-Force" #1 is the second best-selling comic of all time; it sold five million copies. You have to ask yourself, "Why does the second issue begin with Deadpool for 12 pages?" Because the fans demanded it.
" Nonsense. Why? Because Deadpool wasn't featured in the book AGAIN until issue #11, outside of the cameos of #4, #5, and #10. Cable, on the other hand, is PROMINENTLY featured on most of the covers of that run. If what Rob says is true, Deadpool should have easily spun off into his own series at that point...after all: both Silver Sable and Nomad got their own ongoing titles. Deadpool, however, didn't get his own series for another SIX years, after TWO minis (1993 and 1994) failed to ignite popular demand for the character. And his "sales went boom!" comment is erroneous, too. Sales did OK...they improved quite a bit...a good 50-75%...but they didn't go "boom", and the only issue of New Mutants to EVER sell half a million copies was issue #100.

Now, if we are saying collectors were not buying cases of these books then, I cannot argue with that. But to say speculation was not occurring when NM 98 came out is not true. I don't see where anyone said speculation wasn't occurring. Did you have a specific comment in mind? I certainly was speculating. From #93 on, I bought 15 copies of each book, all the way up to #100, because I believed Liefeld was the new McFarlane. And he was. Kinda. I was initially just buying one of each, but I found a bunch of extra 86s and was buying multiples as of the early to mid 90s. Time to slab the 7 98s. Exactly why I believe there are still a lot of raw HG copies out there. The collectors who brought it on the first mini-bump probably still have most of their copies in the same HG condition. Not UHG, but still in HG condition. Even at the smaller local conventions here, I still see raw HG copies of this book at most of the dealer booths. Of course, it would appear that they are asking for almost slab prices on them. Any idea what the census numbers are on this book in 9.2 condition and above? RMA: Hope you still have your 15 copies of NM 98 or did you sell most of them off during the first min-bump back in '93? He made a lot of money. And I would have made more, if it wasn't for you meddling ki....er, if I'd just held on to them a little while longer!

JK!

You might not recognize Superman from Action Comics 1 either, as his strength was naturally derived from the much advanced Kryptonian muscles. He could LEAP great distances (not fly), and he didn't have super breath or heat vision or x-ray vision, etc. Completely different than today. I think. Wait a minute...no... it would actually be CLOSER to what it is today. Hmm. How about that. Anyway, the story was different then, as it's continued to change and revert and change again throughout the course of the 75+ years and over 5000 Superman stories that have been written. Even Kryptonite wouldn't be introduced until almost 10 years after the creation of Superman.** Someone reading it in 1949 might say, "they're doing their best to change Superman into something I don't recognize!" The Silver Age gave us Super speed, Super freezing breath, Super x-ray vision, going so far as to give him super-memory, super-mathematics, super-hearing, super-HEALING... That's the Superman we all know, right? Well, not to someone who grew up with Supers in the Golden Age. They would say "they're doing their best to change Superman into something I don't recognize!" Yes, Superman was evolving and changing over the course of his history, the same as he is now. In the 70's they eliminated Kryptonite***. and started to give him a little more personality... and someone who read Supes all through the 60's might think "they're doing their best to change Superman into something I don't recognize!" In the 80's John Byrne stripped Superman of many of his powers...his ability to lift heavy objects and fly were explained as 'tactile telekinesis' - a field that all Kryptonians could generate around an object and move with their mind. Someone was REALLY doing their best turning Superman into something others didn't recognize! His powers increased in the 90's (who's didn't?), until he was once again one of the most powerful characters, and one that more people might recognize, though I'm not sure who, as his print numbers plummeted to all time lows. In other words: For the love of God in heaven, do you not realize it's the same thing they've been doing for 75+ years? ** Superman #61 (though it was first used in the Superman radio show in 1943) reet! *** Superman #233 natch! YOUR breath is "super."

No...just busy lately, and not able to post much. (19,999) I see 20,000, but no post. Weird.

First appearance of Drax is a non-factor in value of IM 55... He's completely subsumed by the big Titan. RMA has two accounts? RMA sighting!

one thing that may hold it back a little is it being the 4th or whatever appearance, whereas IM 55 was for sure the first and he is right there on the cover too And all those third world books being speculated on at the time Who's on the cover of IM #55....?

and... ? We already know (roughly) how many were printed and that the issue is from an era of minimal attrition. And it was a funny picture so I thought I would share. :shrug: Yes, hilarious. I laughed so hard when I saw them I almost fell out of my chair. If you think those pics are funny you should check out G.A.tor's convention reports. I wonder who the "we" is being referred to. Additional personalities?

Only perverts look at that cover and think there is some rape/sex subtext there.

That was an anecdote, to ROY, about a situation involving us personally. It's not relevant to the discussion you and I are having. I didn't say anything even remotely like that. You've completely misred what I said. My comment had not a single thing to do with discernment of any kind relative to one's age. You've completely misred what I said. Read it again. You totally misred/misinterpreted that particular comment, and you really wonder why people feel the need to "over"explain themselves..? Really...? :shrug: No, you didn't imply it, true. You pretty well stated it. It's true on a fairly regular basis. Less is FREQUENTLY less, especially when one does not clearly communicate what they are trying to say. I'm not even sure how you can make this statement. Again, that's simply not true, and I'm not the least concerned with the one who is not willing to reason. That is not, and never has been, my concern. My concern is for the other people reading the discussion, and making sure that what I have to say is understandable. It's my job to communicate clearly and effectively. It's not my job to make people understand who don't want to understand. Again...that isn't my problem or responsibility, nor am I going to alter anything because of it. This is a tempest in a teapot. We're talking about posts that average, maybe, the length of a short internet article, and you think that's too taxing for people to have to read...? I say they ought to not be so lazy. If I see a post that I think is too long, and not worth reading, you know what I do? I don't read it. I don't "feel put off" about it, and I certainly don't make an issue about it. I just move on to something that interests me. That's what everyone, including you, should do. The concern...(?)...is appreciated, but really, truly, not necessary.

Help! I'm bein' repressed! Hey, did you see that WTB request over in Modern? Maybe you can help them out. I generally stay out of the Modern forum. Unless you mean the Miracleman post in Copper. Yes, that is correct. I responded there after I found it.

That answer should be obvious.

Help! I'm bein' repressed! Hey, did you see that WTB request over in Modern? Maybe you can help them out.

me! Ha! Yes, me. Thank you for the correction. That's one particular grammatical error I can't quite seem to shake. It just sounds correct, but it's not.

Geez, blah blah blah. You know, if you people didn't talk about me, *I* wouldn't talk about me. What the hell, though, it IS general discussion, right...?

Louise and I spent much of SDCC 2011 chatting about stuff while you ran around the floor buying books. I don't think she had a problem with me being chatty. If she did, I certainly never heard about it. When less is more, and conciseness isn't a problem, I'm pretty sure I handle that well, and I'm pretty sure my posting record is ample proof of that. But people focus on the "verbose" posts, and ignore the "concise" posts. Not a complaint, just pointing out the inconsistency of human nature. However, less can be (and often is) less. I say what I feel must be said, both to make the point AND to forestall possible objections/misunderstandings/misperceptions. Why is legalese so long? Because people WILL find a way to misconstrue/misunderstand/misrepresent, and there needs to be language to cover as many angles as possible. I pay very, VERY close attention to what I say, how I say it, and why. I must, because I have an official "contentious poster" label on me, and have come under closer scrutiny. Not a complaint, truly, but I must be more careful than most. So yes, I am confident that I say what needs to be said, in a way that gets the point across, without rambling or unnecessary repetition. A lot of people are loose with their words, and don't pay attention to what they say, concise, verbose, or somewhere in between.

Chuck said to name any from the last 20 years so I did, I figured he meant "any" regardless of whether it was an indie or not. As far as indies that shot up when a movie announcement was made, and stayed above that peak when the movie was released, I got nothing. If you want an example of a movie hyped SA book, TTA 13 with the 1st Groot will never be an affordable book again, even in very low grade. But this is moderns so yeah, still got nothing Why do you think TTA #13 will never be an affordable book again? Do you know what was *reallllly* hot and expensive, relative to other books, in the early 1970's? Barks Ducks books. Do you know how much they are now? About the same price...and that's with 40+ years of inflation. Did you know that, at one point, this book: ...went toe to toe with Action #1 for "most valuable comic"? Things change, nothing lasts forever, and what is popular now may not always be popular in the future...especially for a third-rate pre-superhero "creature."

There's a lot of interest in mid 00's variants... http://www.ebay.com/sch/ssgtmanteau/m.html?item=321982725942&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684 Some of those prices, especially the Ms. Marvel #1 (I sold two copies for $25 each. ) and the Young Avengers #1 sketch version (I have a 10 pack of that, I think) are pretty strong.

Hey Ryan with a period....

I feel like to comment because I hold both wombat and RMA in high esteem, and Im sorry to see this misunderstanding. RMA, I believe most people would be agreeing with most of your reasonings, and with your care for principles, but I believe they are often put off by the verbose nature of your posts, and the fact that they might give an impression of presumpion. Which, I am sure, mostly its not there as you hardly take offense on a "personal" level, but that is the way they might come through. My 2¢, or better my 2 Euro cents, as they would say There's no misunderstanding between wombat and I, vaillant. We understand each other quite well. As for the rest...I've been posting on internet message boards for the better part of two and a half decades, and I assume most everyone over the age of 35 has, too. With that experience usually comes understanding about how you are "perceived" by others. I'm aware of, and ok with, how I am perceived (though I certainly reserve the right to challenge erroneous perception), and won't be changing my "verbosity" at any point in the near (and probably distant) future. I can think of...maybe...100 posts of my 45,000+ that have been longer than, say, an average newspaper article, which isn't really all that taxing. I am fully aware, in this Attention Deficit, Twitter world we live in, that "too many words hurt Hulk's head"...and, frankly, don't care. If someone can't be bothered to read more than 144 characters, how is that my problem? And, if people choose to be personally offended at comments that aren't personal to begin with...again, that's their problem, and it is a genuine problem, no doubt. And, if you made it this far, congratulations! You're in the top 5% of all message board denizens! I make no apologies for making a concerted effort to communicate clearly, and neither should anyone else.

Following along.... He was talking about people slabbing their books. There was not mention of a relation to value, which was the original question. I like to think people don't need to be handheld and can make the connection between copies being slabbed and copies being sold. But in case it wasn't clear: the reason slabs get added to the census in a hurry is because the price of an item has gone up, and it's usually directly correlated - the faster and higher the price goes, the faster and higher the census count goes. The movie, in that case, directly and significantly affected the value and status of those books, which is contrary to your claim that "I would say no because he was a cult favorite before any movie. " That wasn't true, as those numbers demonstrate. Hellboy is a quintessential example of an "Indy" character "spiking in value because of the movie."