RockMyAmadeus

Jim Lee and J. Scott Campbell The correct answer is Stephen Platt, who was a breakout hit in late 1993 with Moon Knight. JSC was never a breakout hit, and there was never a premium paid for his art, simply because it was his art. See: Gen 13, Danger Girl, etc. JSC has specific issues that are more valuable, but that is because of their subject matter (in this case, prettily drawn women), and not his artwork in general. No, not really. You just need knowledge of, or access to, historical records to see who was the last artist to take the comics world by storm, in the context of my post. Having a chip on your shoulder doesn't help, Jerome. I don't "blast" anyone, and certainly not "everything" anyone says. Being corrected isn't "blasting", unless you're easily offended and don't like to be corrected. Expressing a different opinion also isn't "blasting", unless, again, you don't like anyone disagreeing with you. Is that the case? If you feel I have made an error, by all means, feel free to correct me. I won't be offended. And, if you have a difference of opinion with me, share it. Who knows, we both may learn something new.

Ill try with the pair I recall: Alpha Flight #51 should be Jim Lee, Hawk & Dove obviously Liefeld, and X-Factor should be Stroman (which I still have problems with). Very good! The only error is X-Factor #63, which was Portacio's breakout. Stroman was never "hot enough" for "long enough" for any of his work to be broken out.

No we aren't . We are paying to support forward payment of benefits that NO OTHER COMPANY in the history of the world has had to pay. This ruling was made by Congress, and the two leaders of the Congressional committee who pushed this through represent Memphis and Louisville, homes of the shipping hubs of Federal Express and UPS. Such a coincidence. Yes, and that would be bureaucratic mismanagement. Who do you think manages the USPS? The bureaucracy. The forward payment of benefits was precisely what I had in mind when I made my post in the first place....and that is a direct result of bureaucratic mismanagement. Congress doesn't manage anything. The bureaucracy does. Congress only legislates. I don't doubt there are other factors involved; there always are in every situation. But at the core...and I know you don't like this, and we're dancing a little close to the line here, so this is all I will say...is that bureaucracy is not, has never been, and by its very nature, can never be efficient. You completely support the bureaucracy, so you think the answer lies there. It doesn't, and cannot.

.... only my opinion, but the continued popularity of the book could be due to more than just 1st Venom. It's got a decent cover, it's an anniversary ish, it's a McFarlane book from a famous run, and very nice copies can still be had for less than 500..... which is the glass ceiling for 98% of collectors. It also gets the ASM bump. GOD BLESS... -jimbo(a friend of jesus) +1 -J. ...you agreed with me ...... what have you done with the REAL Jaydawg ? ..... seriously though..... people want keys..... and for an artist as wildly popular as McFarlane, this may be his only true key.... which I find puzzling. GOD BLESS... -jimbo(a friend of jesus) The era of the "hot artist" is clearly behind us, and has been for some time. There was a time (I'm not speaking to you, Jim, as I know you know this, but to everyone) that any book worked on by a "hot artist"....Adams, Starlin, Smith, Byrne...would be worth 10x or more than other surrounding issues. That reached its zenith in 1992-93, with Image. Since then, the idea of buying multiple copies of a new book because it was by X artist has long departed. Quick...name the last artist to take the comics world by storm. Hasn't been any since Platt, who was (and still is) a McFarlane clone. Not that there aren't solid artists working in the business...I'm not saying that. But there was a time when people actively sought out, and paid a premium for, the following books: X-Factor #63 All Star Squadron #47 Alpha Flight #51 Hawk & Dove Mini #1-5 Warlord #131 Silver Surfer #15 Silver Surfer Annual #1 Coyote #11 Giant Size Dracula #5 Strikeforce Morituri #1 Can anyone rattle, off the top of their heads, who belongs to what book, and what makes those issues special?

We aren't paying to move our packages. We are paying to support bureaucratic mismanagement for decades.

Wow, it looks like Jordy has a perfect batting average in terms of scoring 2 9.8's on his 2 OO submissions. Hope he brought a Powerball ticket for himself last week since the luck seems to be going his way, with as you would term it, 2 accidents of preservation on his 2 submissions. Is there a reason for the passive/aggressive comment? 9.8s, prior to the advent of CGC, are accidents of preservation. That doesn't mean they're difficult to find, or that it takes "luck" to get them. I've gotten thousands of 9.8s, and so have others. I'm not sure you understand what "accident of preservation" means. No, didn't meant to be passive/aggressive with you at all, as I find your viewpoints to actually be very enlightening. Just feel that accidents of preservation is too simplified of a term and probably not the best or most accurate way of describing how to get UHG OO books. I feel it's more a case of having the following: 1) Luck of availability; 2) Skill in cherry picking; 3) Intent on preservation; and 4) Luck with grading If you miss out on any of these four factors, you most probably won't end up with a UHG book off the shelf by the time it's all said and done. Ok. Aside from #4, which isn't really a thing when it comes to books that are solid 9.8s, you're describing accidents of preservation. I daresay that 99.9% of comics buyers in February of 1988 (when this book came out) did not have both the ability and willingness to cherrypick what-would-become 9.8s. That's not saying that there weren't...there were, and I joined those ranks in 1990...but those people were very, very, very few. Mostly, the luck involved was in 1. picking a "nice looking copy" off the shelf/stand, and 2. properly maintaining those books in the intervening decades, especially if you paid cover price for them brand new. In other words...they are accidents of preservation. Happy accidents...but accidents, nonetheless. As far as Jordy's book...you only know his (I assume Jordy is a "he") submission of these two books. You don't know (because he doesn't tell us), how many of his similar books got 9.8, or if he subbed them at all, or if he even had other books to sub. You don't know how he picked them, or how he preserved them. You can't really make any conclusions from "My 2 OO copies are back from CGC" except that he had two copies that he bought when new, and they both graded 9.8. They could very easily have been mishandled in some slight way that would have permanently removed any hope of being a 9.8 from the books forever. All it would take is a little rub on the back cover, or a little color breaking ding in a corner, or any of a number of things. I've lost maybe hundreds of potential 9.8s because of damage in intervening years, and I both cherrypicked the finest copies available and made a dedicated effort to preserve them for the past 26 years. How much less so for those who weren't as fastidious (read: anal) as me? 9.8s prior to 2000 are, indeed, accidents of preservation.

Beautiful Non-jagged edge copies.. both in 9.8 Non-jagged edge vs Jagged edge - Wouldn't this be a more important criteria to consider rather than whether or not it's a Direct or Newstand I've never minded the jagged edge copies, personally. They add character to the book. Wow, it looks like Jordy has a perfect batting average in terms of scoring 2 9.8's on his 2 OO submissions. Hope he brought a Powerball ticket for himself last week since the luck seems to be going his way, with as you would term it, 2 accidents of preservation on his 2 submissions. Is there a reason for the passive/aggressive comment? 9.8s, prior to the advent of CGC, are accidents of preservation. That doesn't mean they're difficult to find, or that it takes "luck" to get them. I've gotten thousands of 9.8s, and so have others. I'm not sure you understand what "accident of preservation" means.

He's just building anticipation, so when he does return, everyone will fawn all over him. Well. It works.

Very strange, I've personally never seen any pence copies of any Marvel issues post 1986ish - whenever you get a chance, I'd love to see a picture Not sure why there would be a pence copy...by this point, all three prices (US, Can, UK) were printed on the covers.

It's a tough book, to be sure, but not as tough as some. I wish there were records on when they printed each one, and to what numbers, but I suspect not even DC archives has that information. Nobody cared. The only thing we can really surmise is that the DCU printings were printed in the Jan-94 to Oct-96 time frame, when the other DCU versions were being printed. There's a raw one for sale on eBay, though, for $80, which seems a bit high, but not out of reason. However, another copy just sold for $6, another for $10, and another for less than $20. I suspect most of the copies are still sitting in the Doomsday boxes.

I don't remember the first copy I bought, or how, but I DO remember the first copy I SAW...it was at Clay's Comics in Hayward, CA, in the spring of 1990. He had gotten in a full run of ASM McFarlane, and priced it at OPG...they were gorgeous copies...and this was before Update #12, where the books went bazonkers. So, the ASM #301-305 were priced at $2.70, the #306-315 at $2.20, and so on... But the ASM #298, 299, and #300 were priced at $8.80, $5.60, and $7.50 respectively, which was their price in the 1990 OPG (someone can spot check me; if they'd like.) So, I passed on those three, thinking I could find them cheaper elsewhere. Hey, I had just really started to get into comics, and I wasn't really aware. And a few weeks later, Update #12 came out, and #298 and #300 were $30, #299, 301-305 were $15, and so on. But...I DID buy #301-328.

How about we don't tell other people how they can appreciate ASM #300, and don't run to the mods because someone says something that doesn't agree with us, so the thread isn't shut down? It's perfectly possible to have a discussion, even disagreement, without feeling the need to involve the mods. You DO know that's almost always why threads get locked, right? Surely, we're all adults here, are we not? These posts ARE on topic: ASM 300 Appreciation. Or, does how you appreciate rule, and how others appreciate suck? Debatable. As for the jagged/non-jagged, I agree that the non-jagged should be preferred. CGC has deemed (correctly so) that it's a production issue, so they don't downgrade for it so we haven't seen any price difference(s). I think there should be a slight premium associated, but the market doesn't. People pay PQ premiums (sometimes good premiums). Something, IMO based on my experiences, that many collectors wouldn't be able to notice any discernable difference on were the books raw. Heck, CGC can't even maintain consistency on it. But, for something you can clearly see (the jagged edge), they don't. Collectors are a strange lot. It's an interesting case, the jagged edge ASM #300. To answer the post above, it seems like the jagged/non-jagged books are about equal, at least in my experience, and I've handled maybe 200-300 since 1990? It's not the only book with this edge that was made in the late 80's (Action Comics Weeklies have the issue, too) but it's far and away the only key to have it. It was so ubiquitous, everyone just assumed that it was normal, and though I noted it in my head at the time, I don't think I ever saw it openly spoken of until the CGC era. As always, everyone should buy what they like, and be fully persuaded in their own mind. I have no preference either way, but that could be because I come from an era which accepted it as a given without question, and didn't consider it a problem worth mentioning.

Beautiful Non-jagged edge copies.. both in 9.8 Non-jagged edge vs Jagged edge - Wouldn't this be a more important criteria to consider rather than whether or not it's a Direct or Newstand I've never minded the jagged edge copies, personally. They add character to the book.

How about we don't tell other people how they can appreciate ASM #300, and don't run to the mods because someone says something that doesn't agree with us, so the thread isn't shut down? It's perfectly possible to have a discussion, even disagreement, without feeling the need to involve the mods. You DO know that's almost always why threads get locked, right? Surely, we're all adults here, are we not? These posts ARE on topic: ASM 300 Appreciation. Or, does how you appreciate rule, and how others appreciate suck?

That is, of course, true as a theoretical explanation. No one can argue against that. However, where it falls short is that you don't put in any effort to prove your position, with actual data. You leave it up to everyone else to "find out for themselves." That's not statistical analysis. That's just sharing an opinion. Nothing wrong with sharing an opinion, but if you're going to challenge someone, you need to be willing to do the legwork to provide data that positively affirms your position, rather than just telling everyone to go find it for themselves. No, it's not facts; it's theoretical opinion until proven. You don't do that, and seldom, if ever, do the hard work of research and fact-finding, relying, instead, on everyone else to "prove you wrong" (which, nevertheless, has happened on many occasions, and which you refuse to acknowledge has ever happened.) And that's not the misinformation to which I was referring. That would be things like "the extant number of copies of such and such variant is quantifiable" and "there are only 100 or fewer copies of Sandman #8 editorial variant still in existence." So, you retract your earlier statement that "you don't think anyone else is thinking that (the books in your sigline are questionable)" and admit you were incorrect? Why not share the information publicly, since you were publicly challenged about it, not once, but twice now? Not that you're obligated to, but if you invite people to PM you to share the information with them, why not share it with everyone?

True, but it's important that the misinformation that Jaydog posts is countered with factual, accurate, correct information, or people will be making bad decisions based on that misinformation. In that sense, it's not about arguing WITH Jay, or trying to convince him, but rather, trying to counter that misinformation, for the sake of others. Agreed.

I don't think anyone else is thinking that. But thank you for the back handed compliment I think. Classy guy. -J. That's not true at all. Did you forget that I said the exact same thing, over a year ago, in either the Sandman #8 variant thread, or the ASM #301 9.8 discussion? For which, by the way, some people became rather caustic towards me for "daring" to question your sigline...? And, were you going to answer any of my previous questions? No problem if not, but I think they merit a response.

No. Any alleged "premium" is completely unquantifiable, random, and unprovable. -J. Except where I quantified it in the post before yours. So if I also cherry pick a few data points where a newsstand went for the same price or less than a direct can we put this myth to bed again and once and for all ? -J. Let's see... There are multiple versions of an Amazing Spider-man key issue (#300), with one of them seen less often in the market at some kind of 1:X ratio. You don't like it. There are multiple versions of an Amazing Spider-man unimportant issue (#667), with one of them seen less often in the market at some kind of 1:X ratio. You love it. There are multiple versions of an Amazing Spider-man unimportant issue (#678), with one of them seen less often in the market at some kind of 1:X ratio. You love it. Seems like the only difference is that you only love unimportant ASM books. Actually I "love" ultra rare and sought after ASM variants with a quantifiable and demonstrative scarcity. Not sure what that has to do with this conversation though. This is a conversation about the promulgation of the myth that "newsstand" versions of this common as dirt, mass produced in the hundreds of thousands key book carry a premium to the direct versions, when they absolutely do not. Newsstands are common as dirt. Direct versions are as common as dirt. It is a common as dirt book in all versions (not that the "newsstand" constitutes a "variant" or alternate version the way, um..... actual variants do) To wit...is the "newsstand" version a "variant" of the direct version, or vice versa? Who knows? Who cares? They're both common as dirt. To purport a consistent or provable "premium" for either is a 100% falsehood and is easily debunked. You cherry picked an example that proved nothing. I can cherry pick an example that proves the exact opposite. So what does that mean? It means nothing. -J. PS: No "premium" for NM 98's in "newsstand" form either. Sorry. Since "common as dirt" has no real meaning (other than, of course, its literal meaning, which would render the statement untrue), would you mind refraining from such subjective phrases and use more accurate language when describing these things? Just a request, if you can't, that's fine.

Saying that there is no consistent, provable, or quantifiable "premium" observed in the market either way is not the same as "dismissing" people who care about a newsstand copy over a direct copy one way or another or vice versa. I don't know why you are choosing to use such inflammatory language, especially since you have heard other boardies say that even if they might "prefer" a newsstand copy, that they still will not go out of their way to pay "extra" for the bar code. The reality remains that if YOU decide to pay an infinitesimal "premium" for a copy one way or another, do not automatically expect to receive one if you should ever decide to sell the book yourself. Because if you do, your copy will probably sit. -J. Didn't you JUST praise Valiantman for his fine data gathering skills...and now, because he takes a position with which you disagree, you dismiss those very skills....? Seems a little odd. And, what "inflammatory language" did he use...? I don't see any. Would you mind pointing it out?

This is not an accurate characterization. First, the scarcity is NOT "quantifiable", because you don't know the print runs, nor do you know extant copies. It is quantifiable, to an extent, as a SLABBED book (because resubs must be taken into account, always), but it is not a blanket "quantifiable", as you assert here. And it is "demonstrably" scarce only as it relates to market appearances. Market appearances only tell one part of the story, and is, at very best, an incomplete part of it.

This is how I see it. I agree that the essence of what became Venom began in Web 18. I also agree with those who feel that the event is minimally important. Hey! I'm watching all of you! How DARE you have a discussion that isn't about "moderns heating up on eBay"?? It doesn't matter that it was an organic outgrowth of the topic, it's VERBOTEN!!! NEIN!! Don't worry, the on-topic police will be by to notify the mods soon enough. I'm kidding. Mostly. Well, ok, partly. Some element of my comment is kidding.

I don't think you are at all, but for those of us that grew up on the Len Wein and Bernie Wrightson intro, we stuck our tongues out at the initial reboot, only to be sucked in again when Moore, Veitch and Bissette took over. Marty Pasko is a capable writer, but he certainly didn't have any vision for the character,

Well the cover to 361 is published in 360. #359

Seriously, folks, it's really the best damn series published in the 80's. Yes, there are individual stories that are better, but there is nothing...meaning nothing...that was as consistently incredible for so long as Moore's run on Swampy. 65 (63 if you don't count Veitch's #59 and #62) issues of spine-tingling, thought-provoking immenseness, and Moore didn't have to resort to gratuitous violence and/or sex to accomplish it. I can think of no several year series, before or since, as incredibly wonderful as this one. Maybe I'm overselling it. I don't think I am.

It's essentially a story about Swampy, in his universe hopping journey back to earth, encountering a "mechanical planet", and taking on the "essence" of that world, and how foreign it is to what he knows. Sorry if I get some of the details wrong, it's been a few years since I red these.