RockMyAmadeus

Considering that it's at the beginning stages of production and all anyone can seem to do is talk about potential leaning, I'm certain they're engineering this to prevent any issues. A rep already confirmed that they're using metal rods through the base, arm and body, and the lower-body will probably be very light compared to the base and torso. I don't think it's hard thing to prevent with some forethought, and their attention is already on it. Don't have anything to say, just saying

Brian: Thanks for the pictures. I have been pulling Mark Jeweler inserts out of my "unloved" boxes and some have stars and some don't. Close to 50 comics, all from the 70s and 80s with Mark Jewelers inserts. Most of these were books we picked up at the many, many yard sales we use to go to as kids. And I forgot all about the other stamps that were used. I'm guessing my Star Wars will have the same markings since we got them together. It's been a long time since I've been in those comic boxes. Just for the boards information, Brian is my brother and we both have/had an extensive amount of Mark Jeweler books from our time in Germany. Any input as to possible numbers of MJI books vs. their regular counterparts? I appreciated BrianR's earlier info regarding the number of overseas bases and potentially how many comics could have been distributed through that system. Adding in the larger stateside bases and how many spinners may have existed among the main Exchange and smaller "shoppette" type locations make me believe 5% isn't off the mark. Any idea if AAFES was accorded the same ability to return unsold copies as other shops in the distribution chain? I understand why people may think the percentage of MJI's was lower than 5%, but I don't think they realize just how widespread the AAFES retailers were, particularly in the 70's and early 80's. I understand your reasoning, but without hard numbers, I'd have to disagree. 5% is a monstrous number, compared to such a small percentage of the population. There were a lot of bases, yes. But comics readership declined throughout the 70's, and by the 80's, comics readership among the military wasn't anywhere like it was during the 60's and earlier...which is why the program was discontinued in 1991-ish. The 70's was the era of 7-11, K-Mart, and convenience stores for comic book distribution; drugstores and newsstands were on the decline for comic sales. I wonder if Mark Jewelers is still in business. If so, maybe I can track them down and ask some questions.

Yeah, this is pretty revealing here.

Post pictures? Here's one of mine: Not entering the fray on the existence or not of a Canadian $5.95 first print. My comment was just to the font type used for the $4.95 single price US first print. Mine does not appear to be the frumpy font you described. Mine appears to be the picture you show above, not the frumpy one in the single $5.95 picture. But your original "guide" said first print should be "frumpy" not "sleek" for the first print $4.95 type. This picture here is the fat, thick, "frumpy" font. Note the uniform thickness of the numbers in the price. On the $5.95 price posted several posts back, the $5.95 has a sleeker, skinnier font, with varying degrees of thickness on the stroke of the "bowl" of the 5, from thin, to thick, to thin. There are words for this typeface anatomy, but I don't know them well.

We'd have to determine the total amount of a print run that was distributed through Stars & Stripes and AAFES stores, so that number never seemed entirely out of line. That would only be 10,000 copies of a 200,000 print run for example. That less than 5% of your books have inserts might be more a result of your geography than anything else. If you lived near Fort Hood, Fort Bragg, or a large base in Germany I'd suspect you'd see a percentage greater than 5% of books that had inserts. That's a reasonable guess, but my books have come from every area of the country. Granted, those are anecdotal numbers, but....when you consider that roughly 1.5% of the total US population served in the military during the Vietnam era (and drastically fell off with the end of the draft in 1973), it seems odd that they would print 4-10 times that amount, as a percentage of total copies printed, for distribution to military bases. (Source: http://www.prb.org/source/acf1396.pdf Page 5, figure 1) As well....during this time period, 200,000 was a very low amount of copies printed. Hulk, for example, had a print run of about 375,000 copies, with around 200,000 sold on average, during 1974. 5% of the total print run doesn't seem reasonable, against a group that only represented .5-1.5% of the total US population. That would make around 20,000 copies of Hulk #187, for example. For total numbers of potential customers at an exchange store you would also need to include eligible family members and retirees, and DoD employed civilians. True, but take a guess....how much does that increase the number? Does it double it? Triple it? And would all of those people be likely comic book purchasers?

We'd have to determine the total amount of a print run that was distributed through Stars & Stripes and AAFES stores, so that number never seemed entirely out of line. That would only be 10,000 copies of a 200,000 print run for example. That less than 5% of your books have inserts might be more a result of your geography than anything else. If you lived near Fort Hood, Fort Bragg, or a large base in Germany I'd suspect you'd see a percentage greater than 5% of books that had inserts. It would be 5% of the newsstand editions, which would represent an even smaller percentage of the overall print run. Though RMA has indicated that he believes even that number to be high (which I may also agree with). -J. In 1971, 72, 73, the Direct market didn't exist. All there were in existence were newsstand editions. All the way up until late 1976, when Marvel finally began fiddling with variations for the Direct market, which was absolutely fledgling, there's still only newsstand editions. Even when you consider the changing market dynamics of the 80's, it's hard to imagine that 5% of even the falling newsstand market would have had MJIs.

We'd have to determine the total amount of a print run that was distributed through Stars & Stripes and AAFES stores, so that number never seemed entirely out of line. That would only be 10,000 copies of a 200,000 print run for example. That less than 5% of your books have inserts might be more a result of your geography than anything else. If you lived near Fort Hood, Fort Bragg, or a large base in Germany I'd suspect you'd see a percentage greater than 5% of books that had inserts. That's a reasonable guess, but my books have come from every area of the country. Granted, those are anecdotal numbers, but....when you consider that roughly 1.5% of the total US population served in the military during the Vietnam era (and drastically fell off with the end of the draft in 1973), it seems odd that they would print 4-10 times that amount, as a percentage of total copies printed, for distribution to military bases. (Source: http://www.prb.org/source/acf1396.pdf Page 5, figure 1) As well....during this time period, 200,000 was a very low amount of copies printed. Hulk, for example, had a print run of about 375,000 copies, with around 200,000 sold on average, during 1974. 5% of the total print run doesn't seem reasonable, against a group that only represented .5-1.5% of the total US population. That would make around 20,000 copies of Hulk #187, for example.

Yes that one would definitely get a green label. -J. Incorrect. There is no way to know if a book came with a ND/MJI. Having a star doesn't mean it had an insert. I've seen it be about 50/50. However, if I see a star I will give the book the once-over for an insert. So you're saying all star-stamped books have inserts, but not all insert books have star stamps? No to the first half, and yes to the second. But I personally would still take a pause if I was looking at an early/mid 70's book (in particular) with a star stamp but no insert. -J. There is no direct correlation. Do you have a source for this information? It would be good to file this away for reference. I don't think anyone has a definitive source. It's generally believed the MJI's were only in copies distributed through overseas (and possibly stateside) military bases. 5% doesn't seem out of line. So total the number of military base retailers and compare that number to total published copies (returnable or not) and that's where the 5% comes from. 10% seems way too high. Maybe it's 7%? Until Mark Jewelers chimes in I doubt we'll ever have an accurate figure on any numbers. So you're saying all star-stamped books have inserts, but not all insert books have star stamps? Star stamped books only came from a few overseas AAFES stores, so not every insert book will carry a star stamp. You are correct about this. I'll also add that my research has suggested that the inserts only came in "newsstand" editions, so no direct market copies will have them, thus narrowing the percentages further. I feel very comfortable with and stand by the 5% estimate as that seems to be the consensus amongst those who have *really* tracked these things. -J. 5% is the number batted around and it seems reasonable but I have never seen anything to back it up. MJIs only exist in books that appeared on the newsstand. I know of no legitimate example of a direct market MJI. Early on it was thought that they only appeared in books distributed from oversea. That has since been anecdotally disproven. I bought a collection with over 800 ND/MJIs that were purchased at Ft. Brag in the '70s. Another boardie (Shadrock?) said he bought his when he was stationed in updata NY. Excellent. So you disagree with it and/or question it when I say it, yet when somebody else comes in and basically says the same thing you say "excellent". Interesting. -J. Which part?

Exactly. Creating a shill account is against board policy and suspicious. What are they hiding or avoiding? I confess to creating a shill account (I confessed to Arch way back when). His name was SkewerOnAStick. It was for a comic book forum invasion of the "Coinee" forum. Here is a taste. I confess to being a bit inebriated during some of those posts. http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=userposts&id=968 I'm more concerned with the redundancy of the name SkewerOnAStick. It's a wonderful infinity paradox, an embarrassment of tautological riches. Do you know why tautologies are the best arguments? Because they're the best arguments. Tautologies say they're true, so they must be true..

(For the record, 5% seems inordinately high. 5% of the newsstand books I own are not ND/MJ, and I have a cross-section of these books gathered all over the place for the past 25 years.)

Yes that one would definitely get a green label. -J. Incorrect. There is no way to know if a book came with a ND/MJI. Having a star doesn't mean it had an insert. I've seen it be about 50/50. However, if I see a star I will give the book the once-over for an insert. So you're saying all star-stamped books have inserts, but not all insert books have star stamps? No to the first half, and yes to the second. But I personally would still take a pause if I was looking at an early/mid 70's book (in particular) with a star stamp but no insert. -J. There is no direct correlation. Do you have a source for this information? It would be good to file this away for reference. I don't think anyone has a definitive source. It's generally believed the MJI's were only in copies distributed through overseas (and possibly stateside) military bases. 5% doesn't seem out of line. So total the number of military base retailers and compare that number to total published copies (returnable or not) and that's where the 5% comes from. 10% seems way too high. Maybe it's 7%? Until Mark Jewelers chimes in I doubt we'll ever have an accurate figure on any numbers. So you're saying all star-stamped books have inserts, but not all insert books have star stamps? Star stamped books only came from a few overseas AAFES stores, so not every insert book will carry a star stamp. You are correct about this. I'll also add that my research has suggested that the inserts only came in "newsstand" editions, so no direct market copies will have them, thus narrowing the percentages further. I feel very comfortable with and stand by the 5% estimate as that seems to be the consensus amongst those who have *really* tracked these things. -J. 5% is the number batted around and it seems reasonable but I have never seen anything to back it up. MJIs only exist in books that appeared on the newsstand. I know of no legitimate example of a direct market MJI. Early on it was thought that they only appeared in books distributed from oversea. That has since been anecdotally disproven. I bought a collection with over 800 ND/MJIs that were purchased at Ft. Brag in the '70s. Another boardie (Shadrock?) said he bought his when he was stationed in updata NY. Excellent.

Do you have a source for this information? It would be good to file this away for reference. I don't think anyone has a definitive source. It's generally believed the MJI's were only in copies distributed through overseas (and possibly stateside) military bases. 5% doesn't seem out of line. So total the number of military base retailers and compare that number to total published copies (returnable or not) and that's where the 5% comes from. 10% seems way too high. Maybe it's 7%? Until Mark Jewelers chimes in I doubt we'll ever have an accurate figure on any numbers. So you're saying all star-stamped books have inserts, but not all insert books have star stamps? Star stamped books only came from a few overseas AAFES stores, so not every insert book will carry a star stamp. You are correct about this. I'll also add that my research has suggested that the inserts only came in "newsstand" editions, so no direct market copies will have them, thus narrowing the percentages further. I feel very comfortable with and stand by the 5% estimate as that seems to be the consensus amongst those who have *really* tracked these things. -J. Soooo...you don't have any actual source for your figure, it's just a guess, educated or otherwise? Who are those people who have *really* tracked these things?

For there to be a "Canadian version", they would be understandably rare. Put it this way: there are 125 or so Spidey #252s. Of those, only 5 are Canadian versions, or 4%. There are 44 copies of MGN #4 currently listed (I counted)....and there are FOUR supposed "Canadian versions" listed for sale...? (I didn't count the "$5.95 single price" ones, I'll take your word that there are four.) Nearly 10% of the listings are these "Canadian versions"...? And, while there are LATER editions that have UPC codes....the 6th printing, for example...those early supposed "Canadian versions" do NOT have UPC codes...and, again, the "Canadian versions" for REGULAR books were intended solely for the Canadian newsstand. Soooo.... Not conclusive, for sure, but there's too much that doesn't add up yet. I counted 137 completed listings on eBay using the search team "marvel graphic novel 4" (not in quotation marks) between Mar. 1, 2015 and May 24, 2015. Two listings had no image of the book but two other listings had two books each. There were at least two re-listings, so let's say the total number was between 130-135. Of those, I counted 7 "5.95 single price" ones. 4 were from Canada, 3 were from the U.S. So about half the completed listings from Canada are "$5.95 single price" ones. And about 2.5% of completed listings from the U.S. are $5.95 single price" ones. Hmmm... Very interesting, but not conclusive. But circumstantial evidence is still evidence. I searched completed listings through eBay.ca, and confined the search to "marvel novel 4 -handbook." I got 6 results, 3 of which were $5.95, 2 of which were $4.95, and one of which was a dual price. Still too small a sample size. If you can repeat those results for a much larger sample size, you may be on to something.

And a big ol' nasty grease(?) stain on the front cover And yet, someone was willing to plunk down $150+ for it. Sigh. For a book that would probably grade 9.0-9.2 at CGC, that's not too bad. I tried bidding in their latest offerings, but when I bid what the books were worth, based on their actual conditions, I got beaten on all but a single book....and that, a book I didn't look closely enough before bidding. Even their CGC books sell for crazy amounts. That IF #14 8.0? $100+ more than current GPA. Sure, it definitely looked to be "improvable"...but if the 90 day average WAS $173 (and it was), and the last 9.4 sold for $320....where does anything think they're going to make up that difference? 8.0 to 9.4 is a stupendous leap, and not possible for most 8.0s. But the high bidder paid $272 to maybe improve it $100 worth, minus costs...? It's a head scratcher.

What an interesting turn this discussion has taken...

Did Ditch abandon us...?

You would think that Byrne's Nova, from FF #238, would get some love....

I think they were tinkering with different fonts at the time. Note the change in "No." and "$" between MGN #3 and MGN #4. True, but...within a single run, the font is not generally going to be different between "US versions" and "Canadian versions", if such exist, since they would be printed at exactly the same time. Again, not conclusive...after all, there was nothing stopping them from having a completely different font for the "Canadian run"....but it's much more likely that the same font, within the same run, is used. Look at the regular books: the font for Canadian newsstands, and same priced regular US newsstands is identical. But the most inconclusive of all....the regular Canadian versions were specifically printed for Canadian newsstands. These were Direct market books. There wouldn't be a need...yet....to print a "special Canadian price version", just like there is no special Canadian price version for Wolverine Limited #1, for example...but there IS for #2 and so on. And, there are "dual priced" versions that came later, which recognized the changing Canadian price. Two scenarios: 1. The $5.95 single price is a later printing, but made BEFORE the dual pricing. 2. The $5.95 single price is, in fact, a special Canadian version. The cutoff transition for regular books is the Oct, 1982 cover date. Before then, no difference for Canada. After that, special Canadian pricing, both on the Direct and newsstand versions. But these books came BEFORE the transition, at least #1-3. Marvel says MGN #4 came out in November, but does that mean Nov release, or Nov "cover date"? Regardless, it would be PAST the Oct, 1982 transition...but, then, why would they neglect to put dual prices on this book from the start, as they did with #5? Oversight? Here are prices: #1 - $5.95, no single price differences (Marvel says April, 1982), later printings have dual price. Second printing is ALSO $5.95 single price. Third printing is ALSO $5.95 single price. 4th printing is DUAL price. #2 - $5.95, no single price differences. (Marvel says July, 1982) No later printings? #3 - $4.95, with single price $5.95 (Marvel says Auguest, 1982), second printing is single price, $4.95. Third printing single price $4.95. 4th printing dual price. #4 - $4.95, with single price $5.95 (Marvel says Nov 1982) Second printing dual price. These are all reported, I don't have them in hand to confirm for sure. Why is there a $5.95 single price version for MGN #3, which was BEFORE the transition, a few months before, in fact? But....the "2nd printing" MGN #4 has dual pricing, which leads quite a bit of weight to the "Canadian version" scenario. I wish I could get my hands on these single price $5.95 versions. I suspect some of them indicate that they are later printings, and some may not. I'll have to check my other MGNs, too. I'm not convinced, either way. I know that I have seen $5.95 single price versions frequently throughout California, and this wouldn't be a normal place for Canadian versions. Maybe Shooter would remember....

For there to be a "Canadian version", they would be understandably rare. Put it this way: there are 125 or so Spidey #252s. Of those, only 5 are Canadian versions, or 4%. There are 44 copies of MGN #4 currently listed (I counted)....and there are FOUR supposed "Canadian versions" listed for sale...? (I didn't count the "$5.95 single price" ones, I'll take your word that there are four.) Nearly 10% of the listings are these "Canadian versions"...? And, while there are LATER editions that have UPC codes....the 6th printing, for example...those early supposed "Canadian versions" do NOT have UPC codes...and, again, the "Canadian versions" for REGULAR books were intended solely for the Canadian newsstand. Soooo.... Not conclusive, for sure, but there's too much that doesn't add up yet.

Post pictures? Here's one of mine: Here's someone who identifies theirs as a second printing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marvel-Graphic-Novel-New-Mutants-4-1982-VG-FN-2nd-Print-1st-New-Mutants-/371331266534?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56751177e6 Here's the "skinny" $5.95 font: And here's Comicwiz' listing, which is absolutely filled with inaccuracies: http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-New-Mutants-1-Marvel-Graphic-Novel-4-Price-Variants-Beauties-/321760537971?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aea6c2d73 That listing is so inaccurate, it should be removed. I have no idea where he comes up with these numbers. This "Canadian variant" business probably isn't accurate. On the one hand, while yes, this was right about the time that the exchange rate changed enough to make it worth doing, the fact is, these Graphic Novels were Direct market books, and certainly not available on newsstands, through newsstand distribution. I'd be gladly proven wrong, but of the original MGNs, there aren't any "newsstand" copies. The whole point of the "Canadian variant" was for newsstand distribution. These MGNs came out before and during the transition. The Direct market regular books had the Canadian price added with the Oct 1982 cover dates...and so did the MGNs (see #5, God Loves, Man Kills.) The very reason there was a different newsstand price was because those books were solely intended for the Canadian newsstand. Thus, we see later printings (and, starting with #5, all of them) with dual prices, just like the Direct market regular books. So, this whole "Canadian version" is pretty dubious. While it's possible that the $5.95 is a "Canadian version", why would they print a different version using an entirely different font for the price, rather than just using the original font, which already had a "5" in the price?

I don't know...are you hanging out the passenger's side of your best friend's ride....?

Why is the "tame" cover the variant? I consider the explicit cover to be the variant, and marked it so on my submission form. It would not have mattered if I did know about the SS 9.8, because universals and SS are different things. I still would have listed it as "only 9.8 on census." I don't have a problem if others disagree, and they can do with their listings as they choose.

I'm RICH!! (This is getting old. I have to come up with a new slogan.)

Don't know where my triple picture went, but this is one of three. I only own one; another of mine is for sale on eBay from someone else.

Nope. Beautiful cover. In my long collecting life I've never owned any of the Famous Funnies with Frazetta Covers. Too much time looking for junky ol' Detective Comics.