RockMyAmadeus

I wonder if THIS conversation will have any effect? Folks, this has literally been argued about for 25 years. For all those 25 years, #266 has won. Will this turn the tide? Will anyone care? It's as real as a first appearance gets, without being on the cover. Personally, I had resigned myself to #266 many years ago.

It was, an excellent find, that corroborates other information (notice...the dates are exactly the same.) No one's being mean. You're overthinking it again.

but i think the stuff scanned showed that this was not an unintentional early release/publishing mishap or any of that (not that it should matter to us) The US Copyright info shows the same thing. i don't think the copyright register shows intent, just when stuff happened. . These are filed with the US Copyright office, to protect the copyrights of the work. They are vitally important. You would be hard pressed to find a "publishing mishap", as far as Marvel is concerned, with the US Copyright office. It is more compelling evidence than the "coming soon" catalog, which has no legal ramifications. Filings with the US Copyright office are anything but "unintentional."

but i think the stuff scanned showed that this was not an unintentional early release/publishing mishap or any of that (not that it should matter to us) The US Copyright info shows the same thing.

You don't even need the Marvel catalog...here's the info from the US Copyright office: X-Men Annual #14 (part 4): Issues Registered: v. 1, no. 14, 1990. Created 1990; Pub. 1990-05-29; Reg. 1990-06-19; TX0002843529 Here's the X-Men #266 info: v. 1, no. 266, late Aug90. Created 1990; Pub. 1990-06-19; Reg. 1990-08-27; TX0002882810

The scant sales being a result of the book's scant numbers, but I have not seen raw copies go for this kind of money. Until this 9.2 sold I was sure that the dollars raw copies were realizing were rivaling what a slabbed copy would go for. If this 9.2 sale is legit it would suggest a commensurate increase in slabbed prices as well, hence my posit that the book is "hot". @Cujobyte: I have a working theory that the sandman 8b will eventually be the copper age equivalent of the star wars 1 price variant. -J. So....there's an "obvious uptick in heat and price"....but, scant sales to demonstrate that...? How does that work...? "If" is a big word. We shall see. Four raws and two slabs in six months or so is "a lot" by this book's standard. And with strong prices for each and every one of those raw copies and a 9.2 now evidently selling for what a 9.8 sold for six months ago, I do not believe the word "hot" is an overstatement. -J. You would have to demonstrate the sales history of this book to show an "uptick." A 9.0 sold for $250 less than three years ago, and a 9.4 sold for $300 in 2009. There have been 17 sales of this book slabbed, going back to 2002, averaging about 1.2 a year. The prices, while "up", don't definitively prove that this is due to the book ITSELF, or the overall exuberance on the market in general. This 9.2 is a quintessential "outlier", if it's even legitimate. For record keeping purposes, you argued THE EXACT OPPOSITE POSITION when discussing Cerebus #1 last year.

Yeah, when I discovered Sandman...it's strange, I never ran across a cheap one, and I was in the Bay Area at the time, where they were first given out. Missed it by *that* much.

The scant sales being a result of the book's scant numbers, but I have not seen raw copies go for this kind of money. Until this 9.2 sold I was sure that the dollars raw copies were realizing were rivaling what a slabbed copy would go for. If this 9.2 sale is legit it would suggest a commensurate increase in slabbed prices as well, hence my posit that the book is "hot". @Cujobyte: I have a working theory that the sandman 8b will eventually be the copper age equivalent of the star wars 1 price variant. -J. So....there's an "obvious uptick in heat and price"....but, scant sales to demonstrate that...? How does that work...? "If" is a big word. We shall see.

Oh thank god. I've been reading this thread for 5+ pages now wondering what the answer was. FINALLY, I can stop! Why I oughtta...! Buncha smartypants around here...

Right and with all of your jibber-jabber and the obvious recent uptick in heat and price for the book (which has brought out a few raws), there is still much less than even 100 copies "officially" accounted for, raw or slabbed. In fact I would wager that that newly slabbed 9.2 is one of the raw copies that has sold in the last few months. -J. "Obvious" recent uptick in heat and price...? Got any evidence for this? There have been two sales in the last several months on eBay, one raw, and this 9.2 that just sold. Aside from the 9.8 in August, there hasn't been a slabbed sale recorded at GPA since 2013. Do you have other evidence that would demonstrate your claim? Yes. There have been more than just those two sales. There was a mid grade raw that went for about $450. There was a 9.0-ish raw that went for about $600. There was also a 9.6-ish looking raw that sold for $1k in the fall. Then of course the last raw auction that's still on ebay for nearly $1,100. Pardon me, I wasn't clear: do you have any documentation that demonstrates this? Yes. Expired ebay listings. Sorry, I can no longer link you to them, but fret not, they happened. (thumbs u -J. So...no? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sandman-8-1st-App-DEATH-VARIANT-Karen-Berger-Editorial-Edition-RARE-MOVIE-/121456930540?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&rt=nc&si=RgD8672UacyTR%252Bjk7ERwAehdhLc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rmvSB=true http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sandman-8-VARIANT-Karen-Berger-Editorial-Edition-RARE-1st-App-DEATH-/181569873824?pt=US_Comic_Books&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&rt=nc&si=RgD8672UacyTR%252Bjk7ERwAehdhLc%253D&orig_cvip=true&hash=item2a466867a0&rmvSB=true -J. The same buyer bought both those copies (118 feedback). I wouldn't be surprised if Michael bought both those copies. (Hi Mike ). I had a longer post written out, but will just scrap it for now. I will state this though. If Investors (and not collectors) are buying up copies of this book at 9.2 for $2k, you'll be hard pressed to make any $$ on them. Despite what Jay has said here, there are limited buyers for this book. If a collector did buy it, kudos and enjoy the book. Good catch! Yes, the same buyer bought both those books.

The first one is a sale from 2005. I can't speak for Jay, but that *might* be out of the running for "recent." The other two reference the sales already mentioned. I dunno....four sales in five months...plus only 2 slabs in over a year... Doesn't *seem* like a obvious uptick in heat and price to me.... PS. I've been looking for this book since 1991. You too?

Cool, thanks for the documentation. However...four sales in the last five months doesn't seem like an "uptick in heat and price", much less an "obvious" one... I would imagine that, having had only TWO slabbed sales in the last year wouldn't support that conclusion. Maybe it's a case of in sight, in mind? That is, we've talked about it so much here, there's a projection of that perception into the market that doesn't actually exist?

Right and with all of your jibber-jabber and the obvious recent uptick in heat and price for the book (which has brought out a few raws), there is still much less than even 100 copies "officially" accounted for, raw or slabbed. In fact I would wager that that newly slabbed 9.2 is one of the raw copies that has sold in the last few months. -J. "Obvious" recent uptick in heat and price...? Got any evidence for this? There have been two sales in the last several months on eBay, one raw, and this 9.2 that just sold. Aside from the 9.8 in August, there hasn't been a slabbed sale recorded at GPA since 2013. Do you have other evidence that would demonstrate your claim? Yes. There have been more than just those two sales. There was a mid grade raw that went for about $450. There was a 9.0-ish raw that went for about $600. There was also a 9.6-ish looking raw that sold for $1k in the fall. Then of course the last raw auction that's still on ebay for nearly $1,100. Pardon me, I wasn't clear: do you have any documentation that demonstrates this? Yes. Expired ebay listings. Sorry, I can no longer link you to them, but fret not, they happened. (thumbs u -J. So...no?

Oh thank god. I've been reading this thread for 5+ pages now wondering what the answer was. FINALLY, I can stop! Alright, smartypants.

Right and with all of your jibber-jabber and the obvious recent uptick in heat and price for the book (which has brought out a few raws), there is still much less than even 100 copies "officially" accounted for, raw or slabbed. In fact I would wager that that newly slabbed 9.2 is one of the raw copies that has sold in the last few months. -J. "Obvious" recent uptick in heat and price...? Got any evidence for this? There have been two sales in the last several months on eBay, one raw, and this 9.2 that just sold. Aside from the 9.8 in August, there hasn't been a slabbed sale recorded at GPA since 2013. Do you have other evidence that would demonstrate your claim? Yes. There have been more than just those two sales. There was a mid grade raw that went for about $450. There was a 9.0-ish raw that went for about $600. There was also a 9.6-ish looking raw that sold for $1k in the fall. Then of course the last raw auction that's still on ebay for nearly $1,100. Pardon me, I wasn't clear: do you have any documentation that demonstrates this?

Right and with all of your jibber-jabber and the obvious recent uptick in heat and price for the book (which has brought out a few raws), there is still much less than even 100 copies "officially" accounted for, raw or slabbed. In fact I would wager that that newly slabbed 9.2 is one of the raw copies that has sold in the last few months. -J. "Obvious" recent uptick in heat and price...? Got any evidence for this? There have been two sales in the last several months on eBay, one raw, and this 9.2 that just sold. Aside from the 9.8 in August, there hasn't been a slabbed sale recorded at GPA since 2013. Do you have other evidence that would demonstrate your claim?

I wonder about this sale. Interesting, $2,000 bought the 9.8 last August.

How is that even possible? There's only, like, 17 copies still left in existence.

Interesting..."ComicFun" sent me this PM: Unsolicited. I wonder why? It's not correct at all, by the way. The coin market is orders of magnitude larger than the comics.

Yeah, there's no confirmation of some out of order problem, and it certainly wasn't an "error" at any level past the printer, as has been claimed. As I've said before, creators don't care about what the back issue market cares about (most of them have absolutely no clue what goes on with their books after they are published), so publishing them out of sequence (which they obviously knew was going to happen, by way of the editorial note) wasn't a concern. If there was any thought given to it at all, it was "oh, this guy? If you're wondering about him, check out the upcoming X-Men issues, which tell that story." It just so happens that THIS time, it involved the introduction of a character that became very popular. Hopefully, we can put the issue of X-Men Annual #14 being released "in error" to bed. There is no debate; X-Men Annual #14 is Gambit's first appearance. But this overdependence on "what the label says" when the labels are subject to so much change, is quite unsettling. "It doesn't say what I want it to say! I'm not paying anything for it!" Madness.

RIGHT? I mean what the HELL? He had ZERO to do with SW So why in your right mind would you have him scribble on one? Because people are stupid and are paying the prices. If the money wasn't there, no one would do it.

It's really starting to sound like 1992 all over again...only the dollar numbers are different. 1992....when it starts to sound like 1993, I'm out.

And yes, I know how stupid New Mutants #93 is...but man, it was my first brand new New Mutants, my first Liefeld issue, and it was Wolvie... I love that stupid green cover.

Anyone notice the solicitation for New Mutants #92? Someone was behind, and they had to do a fill in... I wonder what #94 would have been if Liefeld had been on time....