RockMyAmadeus

I remember Dragon Lady Comics!

Tell me what "in grade" meant on eBay in 1999...... I bought 10 copies of Spidey #252 in the spring of 1999...all NM...2-3 9.8s out of the batch since then...$30 shipped. Raw NM.As in plain old NM 9.4, some were potential 9.6's.....no 9.8 candidates. I was asking Boboset, and it was a rhetorical question. On eBay, especially in the era right before CGC, grading was as wild as it ever got, because people were selling their own stuff to each other, average people who didn't know how to grade, and selling to people for whom grading mostly didn't matter. Though the nomenclature of "9.4" and other grades existed, hardly anyone used them. OPG in 1997 for ASM #252: $35. 1999: $20. 2000: $25. As you can see, prices in OPG were all over the place. However...in this period the eBay market (and this is an eBay thread, after all) completely ignored the OPG. If you managed to get those prices on the convention circuit, that's great....but that's not what the discussion is about. That was but one example. I didn't "get lucky." It was an auction, which ran for the full 7 days, which I won. How do you know it was an outlier sale? Were you regularly buying on eBay at this time? It was eBay in 1999. NO ONE had scans of ANYTHING, much less "high res scans of the front and back covers of all 10 copies." You were lucky to get ANY picture for a listing. Since this was typical, it was not a mitigating factor. You need to keep these things in proper perspective. You would be incorrect. BINs did not exist on eBay in 1999. As well, a "lucky BIN" would make a terrible example to support my argument. I'm dumb, but I'm not THAT dumb. Maybe. You have made an assumption, an assumption that is false, and are now drawing conclusions based on that false assumption. That should go without saying that that's not how proper debate works, no...? Poor form, man, poor form. Obviously, shipping isn't included for individual copies. Come on. That was AN example. And it is not the ONLY example. Not including shipping, yes, you could buy SINGLE copies of Spidey #252 for $3 or so on eBay in 1999. 9.8 copies? Probably not, but in 1999, no one really knew what "9.8" meant. You must keep things in perspective. In 1999, on eBay, people weren't as concerned about grading, especially for modern books like Spidey #252, as they would become. You must remember that CGC did not yet exist, and wouldn't make a significant impact on the Copper/Modern market for another 6-8 YEARS. YES, I did, indeed, buy OTHER copies of Spidey #252 (not including shipping) for $3, $4, $5 on eBay, on multiple occasions. You posted plenty to back what you said...? Where? I posted receipts of actual sales I made on eBay, with eBay listing numbers (numbers that could, for a fee, be accessed in eBay's archives.) "Lone outlier sale"....? I wasn't responding to you, and it wasn't meant to be an exhaustive post (unlike this one, in more ways than one. ) I don't think you understood what that emoticon meant... You are confused, both as to what a non-sequitor is, and to whom I was responding. You are presuming. You do not know, but have now constructed an entire scenario (that never existed) against which you are now arguing. That is a straw man argument, and it is a logical fallacy. Hard to have intelligent discussions if you resort to logical fallacies. Your scenario has nothing whatsoever to do with mine. I'll repeat: BINs did not exist in 1999. You have come to a conclusion you CANNOT MAKE, based on a presumption about a situation that DID NOT EXIST in 1999. This is bad debate. Like I said...your entire counter-argument rests on a false assumption, and necessarily fails as a result. Sorry.

You said you were selling a dead book...NM #98...for $25 to $50...in 2000. That alone pretty much puts a dagger through the rest of your arguments. :shrug:

Whew! I own a BA 12. I'm safe from bubbles. NO ONE is safe....from BUBBLES!!!

post more of your hoard of books I had a bunch of TTT #44 in my hand today, and Joel Elad threatened to take pics... I ran away.

Gasp! *sob*

Newbs. This place is so full of love and jovial goodwill.

Did everyone in this thread take a hit off of Carbonaro's pipe...? Where is Donut when I need him??

Yes, that would work as a means of irrefutable data, for the sake of proving one's points. I would do that, but my memory of that time period is pretty good and I remember what I sold my books for back then.My sales were not on the high end of the bell curve, either.I didn't price gouge hot books.At least not excessive, anyway as I knew it would come back and bite me hard, in the long run. At the very least, I've got the ball rolling and I'm always interested in participating in thoughtful discussion on our hobby and the shifting marketplace......I think it's fun. I've laid down what I sold the books for so I'm throwing the gauntlet down for someone else to challenge with Overstreet reports or their own anecdotes, as long as they back them with more than one line assertions that everything could be had for $5. Overstreet had ceased publication of anything except the annual book with regards to "modern" (there was no such thing as "Copper" during this time period) back in 1995-ish. In the 1999 OPG, New Mutants #98 is listed for $4. In the 2000 OPG, New Mutants #98 was merged back IN with the rest of the books from #93-100, all listed for $4. And the OPG had effectively ceased to be a reliable price guide by the early 90's. Very, very few books sold for "guide price" during this time period. $25-$50 for VF to NM copies....?

I'm sure you believe your numbers to be accurate. I don't. Here's some of mine: See the top one? A NM 9.4 Cap #11 for $24.50...SHIPPED? The FF #50 doesn't have a grade, but it wasn't "falling apart Fair." Same with the X-Men #35. The Bronze market wasn't a bubble in 1999/2000. The comics market bubble had completely crashed from 1994-1996. Are you aware that Marvel Comics came within one judge's decision of ceasing publication in December of 1997? Growth?? The Bronze market COMPLETELY COLLAPSED in the late 90's/early 2000's, along with the rest of the market! Please provide month and year of this issue, along with the issue number, if possible, where this occurred. I'm not disputing you, I'd just like to zero in on what time period you're discussing. No, the market didn't show these "naysayers" to be wrong at all. It took nearly a decade for all but the most key of Bronze books to reach the heights they had in the mid 90's. You lost money, because Flat Rate Envelope shipping in 1999 went from $3 to $3.50. Boxed was more expensive. Not that you didn't charge $3, but if you did, you were losing money on every sale. The only eBay sellers who routinely pulled in "better" prices were J&S Comics and Lange's Sports...and a few others...because they were consistent, week in and week out, eBay sellers, and developed a following, including many of the people on this board today. I think this needs to be emphasized. Sorry, but I don't believe you. Getting "full guide" for a GD copy of anything except the mega keys...? Not likely. I JUST saw Mike running around Terry's show today. He cracks me up. Okey dokey, artichokey.

Not a single copy did I pay more than $15 for. Not a one. Not a single copy did I pay more than $10 for. This was a $50 book at one point in 1989. Not a single copy...not ONE!...did I pay more than $5 for. I owned ZERO copies of this book, after getting screwed out of one by Halley's Comics in Pleasanton, CA in 1992, until 1999, when I bought my first copy for 30 cents from Ed Kalb in Mesa, AZ. Not a single copy...not one...did I pay more than $5 for. From out of this lot has came 20 9.8s, 98s, and 8 9.8 #87s. How did I amass these books? I was a broke college student from 1993-1997. I had no money. Then, I was a waiter from 1997-2000. I still had no money. Then, I was a sales clerk for an expendable airline parts company from 2000-2001. Still had no money. Then, in 2001, I was fired, and tried to sell comics full time on eBay...that lasted until Sept of 2003, when I had to get another job, because I could barely pay my bills. Don't make me pull out receipts, folks. You know I will. Then you can see the silly low prices stuff sold for in those days. Jim Valentino bought a VG copy of Jimmy Olsen #134 from me in 2002 for $7, and I thought I did pretty good with that sale (yes, THAT JO #134.)

Nonsense.....with all due respect. I already told you: eBay. Yes they were, because I bought them. I don't doubt that you believe this. But eBay records contradict you. From the multiple copies I purchased ON EBAY for that price. You must not have been shopping ON EBAY. Ok. Not on eBay they weren't. On WHAT PLANET was New Mutants #98 selling for $25-$50 in 1999? Or 2002? Or 1997? Or 2004? 2002 GPA, New Mutants #98 9.6: 9 sales, HIGH $40, low $20. 2003 GPA NM #98 9.6: 12 sales, HIGH $43, low $10. 2004 GPA NM #98 9.6: 16 sales, HIGH $60, low $23. 2006 GPA NM #98 9.6 THIRTY THREE sales, HIGH $50, low $15! 2007 GPA NM #98 9.6 TWENTY FOUR sales, HIGH $85, low $11. Yes, that's $11 for a 9.6, in 2007, New Mutants #98. Are you seriously...seriously now...expecting people reading this to believe that a book that sold for $11 in a 9.6 SLAB in 2007 was selling for $25-$50 RAW in 2000? You folks have GOT to do your homework before posting.

Yes, there were exceptions, as there always are. Authority was hot in 2000, Planetary was hot in 2000, Ultimate Spiderman was blazing hot in 2001... None of which changes the fact that the vast majority of books you could buy for pennies. I still have the check carbon somewhere (yes, I actually wrote a check) for $66 shipped for my Turtles #1 in the spring of 1999. My high bid was $125, because I REALLLLY wanted it. Final bid was $61. And that happened everywhere, all the time. I have hundreds and hundreds of receipts, in and out, that shows how cheap virtually everything was. I'm not quite understanding all the contrarian posting regarding this well established period of comics history....

No, you're mistaken. You're off by about 5-8 years. If any issue of Magnus sold for more than $10 after the Fall of 1993 and until about 2005, I'd be very surprised. Umm.......Magnus #12 was going for well over $10 in the 2002/2003 peak. You are off by a couple of years on Valiants. I posted my sales results a while back when we first debated the prices I was receiving for Valiants at that time. Ok. I'll just point out that the only sale of a Magnus #12 in 9.8 in 2002 was for $44. And in early 2003, two 9.6 copies sold for $33 and $36. And those are for slabs; raws, of course, sold for less. I was a near-founding member of Valiantsfans.com (2002), and a founding member of the eBay comics board (1999), in which Valiant prices figured a big part, but hey, what do I know...? I know some folks have talked about a "Valiant peak" in 2002/2003, but I was actively buying Valiants on a regular (daily, if I could) basis in that time period (as before and since), and I don't remember anything like that happening. And all of that really isn't the point, is it...? Magnus #12 was a ONE HUNDRED dollar book in early 1993. It was NOT ever again (except in slabs.) That's the point. That was not your point. Your comment (see your quote above) was that no Magnus books were selling for more than $10 apiece between the Fall of 1993 until around 2005. You quoted it twice, and still got it wrong. What I wrote was this: "If any issue of Magnus sold for more than $10 after the Fall of 1993 and until about 2005, I'd be very surprised." That's not at all the same thing as what you claim I said. Come on, now. And yet, there's not a single CGC recorded sale of EITHER version of the book on GPA until 2004. You're still missing the point: $10, $20, what is the vast difference, when ALL of these books were $100 and UP in the spring of 1993? Let's not make mountains out of molehills. The point is, they were CHEAP. You may have gotten outlier prices (and you've already reported many hundreds of such outlier prices that you seem to get where you are to this day!), but I have 30 copies of both of those books that shows that's not the case. At the end of 1993, I owned ZERO copies of Magnus #0. By 2004, I owned approximately 30 of them, and not a single one of them I paid more than $10 for, guaranteed. I had to force myself to pay $12 a copy for 40 copies of Harbinger #1 from Mile High in 2005. In fact, I own one of the 40 that Shamdasani bought from Layton from Layton's original stash, from which came the first Valiant Comics fan project. Greg took over the Valiant Comics board from Petrilak in, I want to say, 2001. Petrilak started the Valiant Comics (not Valiantfans, as it is now) in 1999, which did NOT, as I understand, have a message board at first. I joined sometime in early 2002. The Great Board Reset of Feb 4, 2004, I had been around for about 2 years, and the message board was not much older. If I have my data incorrect, Greg is more than welcome to correct it, but I'm not far off. But by all means, please post the link to the 2002/03 "peak" debate.

Tell me what "in grade" meant on eBay in 1999...... I bought 10 copies of Spidey #252 in the spring of 1999...all NM...2-3 9.8s out of the batch since then...$30 shipped.

No, you're mistaken. You're off by about 5-8 years. If any issue of Magnus sold for more than $10 after the Fall of 1993 and until about 2005, I'd be very surprised. Umm.......Magnus #12 was going for well over $10 in the 2002/2003 peak. You are off by a couple of years on Valiants. I posted my sales results a while back when we first debated the prices I was receiving for Valiants at that time. Ok. I'll just point out that the only sale of a Magnus #12 in 9.8 in 2002 was for $44. And in early 2003, two 9.6 copies sold for $33 and $36. And those are for slabs; raws, of course, sold for less. I was a near-founding member of Valiantsfans.com (2002), and a founding member of the eBay comics board (1999), in which Valiant prices figured a big part, but hey, what do I know...? I know some folks have talked about a "Valiant peak" in 2002/2003, but I was actively buying Valiants on a regular (daily, if I could) basis in that time period (as before and since), and I don't remember anything like that happening. And all of that really isn't the point, is it...? Magnus #12 was a ONE HUNDRED dollar book in early 1993. It was NOT ever again (except in slabs.) That's the point.

Right, but thats because at the time Magnus, Lady Death and Gen13 were going for 200-300$ No, you're mistaken. You're off by about 5-8 years. If any issue of Magnus sold for more than $10 after the Fall of 1993 and until about 2005, I'd be very surprised. Gen 13 had crashed, and crashed hard. I don't recall any issue of Gen 13, even at the height of its 1994-1995 popularity, ever selling for "$200-$300", though. #1 and #1/2 were the biggees, and they sold for about $50 each. Lady Death #1 was a $100 book in 1994, for sure, but by 1999...$5. LATE 90's/early 2000's. Think 1998-2002 or thereabouts.

This guy gets it.... Thanks for the back up. Johnny Red...?

Some of you folks weren't in the comics market in the late 90's/early 2000's, huh...? Imagine: any copper book, all of them, for $5 or less. Every. Single. One. Except Turtles #1. That was a $50-$100 book, off it's 1990 highs of $300-$400. Imagine, Spidey #252, $3 or so on eBay. Primer #2? $20. Spidey #238? $10, tops. And forget the Johnny-come-lately "keys." Dark Knight? #1-4, $20. Watchmen? Drek.1-12, $12 shipped. Oh, sure, there were the oddballs...Miracleman #15 was selling for $50-$60 or so...but that was the great exception. Spidey #298? $10. #300? $25. New Mutants #87? $5. New Mutants #98? Sold in runs of #90-100 for $10. Pick a key, any key...it was virtually worthless. The demand simply wasn't there. That's what it was like in the late 90's/early 2000's.

Now, now, let's not be hasty....

No kidding. People here need to chill. Not sure if some folks are just boosting post counts It's a good old boy club around here, or at least that's how it seems at times. Had the right person mentioned ST169 heating up no one would have questioned it. But a sub 1000 poster? No cred in the eyes of many. "Noob". How do we join the club? Do we have to boost post our count? Just like anyone does: Make cogent, thoughtful, well-expressed posts consistently, over a period of time. It's not rocket surgery.

The ones signed and limited to 25 each for the Warriors of the Shadow Realm storyline? Yeah, those are cool, and just hard to find. Too bad there is nearly zero demand for Warriors of the Shadow Realm. Hmm Why are we even talking about this? Oh that's right, our insatiable need to show off our knowledge out of nowhere and out of context! Count me in! The thread is about signed and limited bronze age "specials." There's nothing "off-topic" about my post, nor was it inspired by any need to "show off." If what I have to say bothers you to the point where you feel the need to make multiple snide (and inaccurate) comments, you have a problem, and it isn't me. I recommend you find someone else to obsess about. Your best option is to pretend I don't exist. Anything other than that will create problems for you. Move on.

I was going to leave this, since it was up to 48 posts, in honor of the 48th issue, but I decided to post anyway. Here's to #49!