RockMyAmadeus

No rumors. http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-COMICS-COLLECTORS-PACK-ANIMANIACS-15-PINKY-B-1-1995-Ser-1-Near-Mint-/301444735496?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item462f81a208 Speaking of...I've been following the Collector Packs for years...the one with BA #12 sold a year or so ago for $8 and change.

Of course it works. Why do you think it's done? That isn't an endorsement of shilling; it's simply a statement of fact. The really nice thing is that, in general, the market isn't greatly affected by shilling. If there's 3 shilled listings, you're likely to have 10-12-15-20 listings that aren't. Shilling isn't anywhere near as pervasive as you are making it seem. Again, not an endorsement or absolution of shilling; just a statement of what is. And this is critical: the people that aren't going to do research to find out if an item has been shilled are ALSO usually not going to do research to find out "what others are selling for." The only question is "do I have the money, and do I think it's a fair price, yes/no?" That's it.

Raw book sales aren't reported to GPA. -J. It's a good thing completed listings on eBay are unavailable to everyone immediately and forever and GPA is the only source people are allowed to look at when trying to determine comic values. Right. I think you missed the point. But okay. (thumbs u -J. Soooo...what was the point, if not that raw listings can be shilled, too? Any listing can be shilled on ebay. Ebay listings are only visible for 1-3 months, however, so raw listings do not move the needle on a book in the same way it can be done when a CGC listing is shilled on ebay and potentially becomes a permanent data point on GPA. That can (and does) move the needle. Raw books usually reflect a trickle down proximate value that is usually a percentage of what a third party graded book would realize. Thus those sales will tend to drive and determine the raw book sales and not vice versa. Therein lies the dual incentive for shilling CGC books. -J. eBay listings are visible for 3 months. However, your contention that permanent GPA data points "move the needle" is an overstatement. Data points from 1, 2, 3 years ago have little bearing on what people are willing to pay now for any particular book when there are multiple sales on a regular basis. As well, not everyone subscribes to and/or uses GPA, even slab buyers. eBay sales history, on the other hand, is accessible by anyone with an eBay account. I also completely disagree with your contention that raw sales are driven by slabbed sales. The divide between raw and slabbed sales is quite wide, and rarely have anything to do with each other from a buyer's perspective. I am not saying that there's no crossover; obviously there is. However, it is limited, and certainly not to the extent that "raw books sell for X BECAUSE a slabbed copy sold for X+Y." Turns out Lazyboy got the point after all. Nope. Still don't think so. And I don't think you have either. Only "sold" ebay listings and the "re-lists" (the ones in green), are visible for 3 months. Unsold listings (the ones in black) are visible for about 30 days. Unsold listings can be just as informative as what sold. If not more so. Yes, but as you do frequently, you are again trying to change the parameters of the discussion. We're not talking about unsold items. We are talking about SHILLING, which means SOLD, so how long unsold listings remain in the completed section isn't relevant to the discussion. Unsold listings DO say something...but not more than sold listings. (Yes, you can shill lower than a reserve and have it "not sell", but that's such a rare scenario, it doesn't merit inclusion, so let's not go in that direction.) Every single raw book that sells does so for a percentage of what a slabbed copy would sell for. That isn't opinion, that's a self-evident fact of math. The actual question, then, is just what that percentage IS. 50%? 20%? 2%? 89%? 175%? And, the better question is: "how can anyone possibly KNOW, much less APPLY, some sort of "percentage" of raw to slabbed sales?" You can't, because it's not possible. Say a slabbed copy of Book X sells for $1200 in 9.8, $500 in 9.6, and $300 in 9.4. What percentage is the raw "NM/M" copy going to sell for, if it sells for $347? Did it sell for 29% of the 9.8 slab? 69% of the 9.6 slab? 115% of the 9.4 slab? There's no way to know. Because there are completely different factors involved in raw sales that don't apply to slabbed sales, you cannot possibly compare. It's not possible. There are too many variables involved. On these boards, sure. In the wider eBay market? No. That's an assumption based on a foundation that doesn't actually exist. An assumption based on an assumption. And how do they know what "closed sales" prices to quote...? Most sellers on eBay don't know that GPA even exists. An assumption built on a foundation of assumptions that don't pan out. Yet another assumption. Do you know how many people buy things simply because it was the first item that caught their fancy, for whatever reason? I've had people pay more than GPA (both for slabs AND raw books) when essentially identical items were available for lower prices ON EBAY at the SAME TIME. You assume that everyone does research when they buy, and this is not true. That's a legal phrase that doesn't really mean what you're trying to make it mean. It has to do with how evidence is obtained, not how pricing models are derived. Evidence obtained illegally can be perfectly legitimate, and still excluded, because of the trail of how it was discovered. What you're trying to concoct would be more like a Ponzi or pyramid scheme. Which, of course, it still isn't, because your assumptions don't pan out. Except you're forgetting the very basic hole in your entire theory: if there's a buyer, they thought the item was worth what they paid. Regardless of *why* (and yes, there's a good separate argument to be made with regards to that why), the fact is, someone believed that the item was worth what they paid at that time. You have forgotten that very critical fact: if a whole bunch of shilled listings "sell" for $1200, and someone comes along and says "well, ok, I guess $1200 is a fair price. Here's my money!" then that buyer has now established an ACTUAL sales price for that book. They were willing to pay $1200 for it. Now, is it fair? No. But is it REAL? Yes.

Raw book sales aren't reported to GPA. -J. It's a good thing completed listings on eBay are unavailable to everyone immediately and forever and GPA is the only source people are allowed to look at when trying to determine comic values. Right. I think you missed the point. But okay. (thumbs u -J. Soooo...what was the point, if not that raw listings can be shilled, too? Any listing can be shilled on ebay. Ebay listings are only visible for 1-3 months, however, so raw listings do not move the needle on a book in the same way it can be done when a CGC listing is shilled on ebay and potentially becomes a permanent data point on GPA. That can (and does) move the needle. Raw books usually reflect a trickle down proximate value that is usually a percentage of what a third party graded book would realize. Thus those sales will tend to drive and determine the raw book sales and not vice versa. Therein lies the dual incentive for shilling CGC books. -J. eBay listings are visible for 3 months. However, your contention that permanent GPA data points "move the needle" is an overstatement. Data points from 1, 2, 3 years ago have little bearing on what people are willing to pay now for any particular book when there are multiple sales on a regular basis. As well, not everyone subscribes to and/or uses GPA, even slab buyers. eBay sales history, on the other hand, is accessible by anyone with an eBay account. I also completely disagree with your contention that raw sales are driven by slabbed sales. The divide between raw and slabbed sales is quite wide, and rarely have anything to do with each other from a buyer's perspective. I am not saying that there's no crossover; obviously there is. However, it is limited, and certainly not to the extent that "raw books sell for X BECAUSE a slabbed copy sold for X+Y." Turns out Lazyboy got the point after all.

Raw book sales aren't reported to GPA. -J. It's a good thing completed listings on eBay are unavailable to everyone immediately and forever and GPA is the only source people are allowed to look at when trying to determine comic values. Right. I think you missed the point. But okay. (thumbs u -J. Soooo...what was the point, if not that raw listings can be shilled, too?

You have to PAY? What the hell kinda deal is THAT?

Yes indeedy.

Here's the title: "Predator Comic #1 & #2 CGC 9.8 Dark Horse 1989 White Pages ~ 1st App of Predator " Here's the description: "These have not been graded by CGC and I am NOT a grader. However, they appear to be in near mint to mint condition. I can't find a flaw on or in either comic anywhere. My best estimate is that these are a 9.8 on the CGC grading scale. " I'm going to put in all of my listings: "Hulk #181 CGC 9.8 + Batman Adventures #12 CGC 9.8" And then put in the description: "This listing is not for either of those books....I just think the actual book for sale would look neat sitting next to those two on a shelf." It's the same thing, after all....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Predator-Comic-1-amp-2-CGC-9-8-Dark-Horse-1989-White-Pages-1st-App-of-Predator-/131371542180?_trksid=p2054897.l4275 I really hate spamming. I really, really do.

I still need an AC 686 2nd Printing as well. I was lucky enough to get a MoS 17 2nd Printing at a church garage sale. It came back a 9.4 but for $10 I'll happily take it. I got a copy of AoS 499 3rd Printing in one of these prepackaged funeral for a friend sets on eBay for cheap but didn't bother grading it because it's not in great shape. You got a AOS #499 3rd in one of those...? Are you sure? Yes, there's the AOS #498 3rds in there, but that has been the only later printing I've seen in them. I've only seen the (much) later printings of AOS #499 3rd, Action #686 2nd, and MOS #20 2nd in the boxed sets, which I'm fairly sure came last (in 1995-ish), keeping in mind that the DCU variants weren't produced until 1994.

That Wolverine gets into everything. I'm eating Arrowhead mountain spring water. (No added Fluoride, which is poison.)

Does someone have a Tranny to English...um..."Trans"-lator...?

Ehhhhh....maybe. Five years ago, no one cared about Harley. That's nearly two decades of obscurity. History has shown that obscurity isn't permanent...and neither is the spotlight. That's so deep! No need for the trolling, Kevin.

Ehhhhh....maybe. Five years ago, no one cared about Harley. That's nearly two decades of obscurity. History has shown that obscurity isn't permanent...and neither is the spotlight.

Deadpool is way overexposed too. Marvel has beaten that variant horse to death. NM 98 went from a $450 book to a $1000 book and everybody went nuts then too. Now it's back down to about a $750 book, with sales as low as $675 recently. That would mean only about a $250 movie bump after all is said and done. Expect about the same, give or take, with BA 12. -J. Keep in mind that theres A LOT more NM98 9.8s than BA 12s in 9.8 Which will be the big difference between these two books, both are currently the hottest comic characters but for rarity alone, i think BA12 will always sell for more than NM98s. There are far, far, farrrrrrr more New Mutants #98s, of all flavors, than BA #12s extant. FARRRR more. Let's just put it in the only real numbers we have: Cap City orders. NM #98 - 55,200 BA #12 - 19,200 So, yeah. If Harley remains as big as she is, she may turn out to be the dark horse character of the 90's. Who knew?

Yes, most, if not all, of the Looney Tunes books from this time period have DCU variants.

It has. But I'm not sure it's the best known...after all, Action #700 and Tec #675 have been fairly important since they came out.

Just bumping this to look at it again. Just amazing. Whoever has this book is lucky. Edit: AND its a newsstand. Didn't even see that, at first. That's the only reason it (mostly) didn't have the defects. By the time they swapped out the plates, something recalibrated. You don't see newsstand copies with (as much of) these tear defects as you do direct. Wrong. The only plate that changes is the black plate. The tears on the spine has nothing to do with a plate change directly. Didn't say it did. Reading is fundamental to comprehension. Read it again, paying particular attention to the phrase "by the time" and the word "something" in the second sentence. "Swapped out the plates" = one (old) black plate plus one (new) black plate = TWO black plates, plural. Funny how that works. It takes 2 minutes to change a plate, I know what you said. You said "something recalibrated by the time they swapped out the plates" I said the tears are not related directly to the plate change. You also said "That's the only reason it (mostly) didn't have the defects" Then brought up the plate change. Don't get twitterpated, Kevin; you didn't read and/or understand what I said, but commented anyways. I know what I said, too...it's still in this quote nest. Let me spell it out for you: "That's the only reason it (mostly) didn't have the defects" is a statement relating to the book being a NEWSSTAND, rather than a DIRECT copy. "By the time" refers to WHEN something happened, not WHAT happened or HOW it happened. I never said...nor even implied...that the plateS (plural) being swapped (because there are TWO black plateS) had anything to do with the tears. I said by the time the newsstand run was being printed, something (NOT THE PLATE SWAPPING) in the line recalibrated, because you don't see these tears AS MUCH on the newsstand run as you do on the Direct run. Nothing further than that was implied, nor should be inferred. Easy cheesy. I shouldn't have to spell things out like this.

Never seen them. I had heard indirectly that some hard core Aparo collector has them. There were some "unused" Mignola covers that were available from certain Brother dealers. I do have a good alternate. Aparo did some Batman card art and he did the art on the Death in the Family. Aparo Death in the Family Card Art - Batman Finds Robin Dead! Malvin I've seen the unused cover to #426...it's pretty nifty. Does Mignola still have the four published covers? The Donnellys had the "unused" cover, but iirc, there was some controversy around it. Maybe having to do with them adding the logos/trade dress after the fact (something they do quite often)? I would bet that Mignola doesn't have any of those covers. He's never kept much of his own work. I wonder where they are, and if they're together? I know this has been asked before, but I don't remember...did anyone manage to get a hold of the alternate Batman #428 pages? Or does Denny still have them?

Still sold my 9.8 two years ago for $185.

Just bumping this to look at it again. Just amazing. Whoever has this book is lucky. Edit: AND its a newsstand. Didn't even see that, at first. That's the only reason it (mostly) didn't have the defects. By the time they swapped out the plates, something recalibrated. You don't see newsstand copies with (as much of) these tear defects as you do direct. Wrong. The only plate that changes is the black plate. The tears on the spine has nothing to do with a plate change directly. Didn't say it did. Reading is fundamental to comprehension. Read it again, paying particular attention to the phrase "by the time" and the word "something" in the second sentence. "Swapped out the plates" = one (old) black plate plus one (new) black plate = TWO black plates, plural. Funny how that works.

Never seen them. I had heard indirectly that some hard core Aparo collector has them. There were some "unused" Mignola covers that were available from certain Brother dealers. I do have a good alternate. Aparo did some Batman card art and he did the art on the Death in the Family. Aparo Death in the Family Card Art - Batman Finds Robin Dead! Malvin I've seen the unused cover to #426...it's pretty nifty. Does Mignola still have the four published covers?

What's up, Fo Hunnert?

This is my wife's favorite journal also Are you calling me your wife...? Them's fightin' words!

Animal Man #1-26. One hell of a ride.