RockMyAmadeus

Oh, and the supply/demand dynamic is what makes Cerebus #1 worth more than Hulk #181, clearly, grade for grade. A 9.4 Cerebus #1 just sold for $9,000. When has a Hulk #181 ever sold for that much in 9.4? Never. Not even half. And 9.4 is the highest grade attainable. So, whether one likes it or not, the fact is, Cerebus is more valuable than Hulk #181. The question was not "which is more popular?"

What I want to know is, why do people abbreviate "Overstreet" as "OS", when it's just one word....

Your custom title? Congrats! Thank you! I was hoping you'd be part of it...but the Miltipas Monster is very close to my heart.

My take is different from yours. I wouldn't look at this book as an investment. As a collector, the drive to own one of everything is immense for me. You have to consider: will you get an opportunity to buy this again? No one knows. We don't live forever. We now know that this copy exists, but how do we know others do? I'd much rather have the book, and have others come onto the market, than not have it, and never have the opportunity to buy it again. The price, if you can afford it, is pretty much irrelevant. It's the only one known. Money comes and goes. It really does. Opportunities like this... Well, hopefully, more copies are shaken from the eaves.

You always have to do some due dilligence. Be your own advocate. No one will protect your own interests more than yourself. That said, IH 181 & MP 4 & 7 aside, I think you could look long and hard and still not find a hotter book than ASM 194 right now. Exactly. You don't need someone to hold your hand. Do research. Decide for yourself. The market is what it is, and precious few can directly influence it, much less control it. However, no individual needs the market to decide for them what they should, or should not, think about any given issue, for any reason. One could say the same thing about grades, but I don't see many arguments saying we don't need CGC deciding the grades on books ( holding our hands as you put it ). Just do your own research right? Learn how to spot color touch, leaf casting, and so on... good luck! Yes. Learn how to spot color touch, leaf casting, and so on. It's not rocket surgery. You don't see many arguments saying we don't need CGC deciding the grades on books...? They're made with regularity on these boards, all the time. And no, one cannot "say the same thing about grades." CGC is paid to check for restoration, assign a grade, and encapsulate the book. They are not paid to make sure their label notes are up-to-the-minute what the market thinks. If someone is making their purchasing decisions on the CGC LABEL NOTES, they are doing it wrong, and need to adjust their thinking. No one said anything about "they shouldn't be collecting comics." You invented that, and then responded as if someone else had said it. That is an example of a strawman argument. What I "make it seem" is your own supposition, and not anything I actually said. Phrases like "you make it seem" aren't conducive to productive discussion, with its accusatory nature. Don't argue based on what you think I might have said. Argue based on what I *actually* say. And...it takes an entire day to google "first appearance XXXXX"....? That's because it's not what they are paid to do. And people are "most protected" when they learn the facts for themselves, rather than having someone else "try to protect them." What happens when you're not around...? So, the label notes and the grade of the book are equally important on the label....? You don't seem to be able to have a discussion without taking it personally and becoming dismissive and aggressive.

You always have to do some due dilligence. Be your own advocate. No one will protect your own interests more than yourself. That said, IH 181 & MP 4 & 7 aside, I think you could look long and hard and still not find a hotter book than ASM 194 right now. Exactly. You don't need someone to hold your hand. Do research. Decide for yourself. The market is what it is, and precious few can directly influence it, much less control it. However, no individual needs the market to decide for them what they should, or should not, think about any given issue, for any reason.

I would love for Vampi to be hot again. I bought boatloads of variants from Harris in the early 00s, long boxes worth, including about 50 RBs. Would be nice for those to get hot again.

I've gotten a few on the cheap that way.... Books that have the wrong label? I've never been that lucky. I seem to always have to spend money on wrong labels to send them back and get them corrected. I've got to imagine with the quality control that CGC has, it's got to be really rare for a book to go out with the wrong label. No, people not understanding the limited edition version of this book.

I've gotten a few on the cheap that way....

The signing had two rules. 1. Two book limit. 2. One of the books had to be from the last 15 years. Republications do not count. Within twenty minutes of the signing Art stopped signing books and yelled about how there were more signed copies than unsigned copies of Maus in circulation and that this is why he doesn't agree to signings. This was a reaction to someone bringing book 1 and book 2 of Maus to get signed. I wonder why that matters to him? So what? Maybe like a famous singer or song writer that keeps getting asked to sing the same song from 25 years ago, over and over again, he just wants someone to bring him something else he's done. If he is going to bother showing up to a signing he should expect that he will be signing things. Who cares if it is Maus or someone's Tshirt. Shouldn't he be appreciative that people like his work? I guess I just don't get it. True, but I guess it depends on the signing. I've seen plenty of book tours where the only thing being signed is whatever new release they are pumping. Same goes for celebs at some conventions. They'll only sign items from the new movie, tv show, whatever they are promoting. Personally, I'd be happy that people came out to see me and are my fans. I'm your fan. Will you sign my moobs?

There are 2,704,568 currently for sale on eBay in the section titled "comics." Of those listings, 64,061 have CGC in the title, which includes PGX books, "CGC it!" and the like. So, 2.4% of the listings are "CGC related." The other 97.6% of the listings in comics have no direct link to CGC. I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of the comic collecting world doesn't really care about CGC. Just for comparison's sake: 120,827 of the listings have "Batman" in the title. Nearly twice as many listings have to do with one character, than all the listings that have CGC in the title combined. RMA you are a pretty smart dude, but I cannot even comprehend what any of that has to do with CGC's influence on the collecting community. 2.6% of ebay listings are CGC "related" So what? So there is a tiny number of CGC related books on ebay compared to raw ungraded and that means "most' collectors don't care about CGC? I think all your numbers show is that the vast majority of comics are not worth CGC grading fees, shipping fees, 4 month waiting times et cetera. You realize that slabbing a book costs $20+ right? How many of those "raw" copies cost less than the cost of slabbing? These numbers you are throwing out really doesn't show anything other than there are millions of comics not worth the cost of slabbing. Using these numbers in the way you are is reaching for something that isn't there. So people do not sell and buy expensive comics that are not CGCed? Good luck in your debate with RMA. Nah, not worth it. There's debate, and then there's just snide. No one learns anything useful from snide...at least, not directly.

Excellent example.

There are 2,704,568 currently for sale on eBay in the section titled "comics." Of those listings, 64,061 have CGC in the title, which includes PGX books, "CGC it!" and the like. So, 2.4% of the listings are "CGC related." The other 97.6% of the listings in comics have no direct link to CGC. I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of the comic collecting world doesn't really care about CGC. Just for comparison's sake: 120,827 of the listings have "Batman" in the title. Nearly twice as many listings have to do with one character, than all the listings that have CGC in the title combined. RMA you are a pretty smart dude, but I cannot even comprehend what any of that has to do with CGC's influence on the collecting community. 2.6% of ebay listings are CGC "related" So what? So there is a tiny number of CGC related books on ebay compared to raw ungraded and that means "most' collectors don't care about CGC? I think all your numbers show is that the vast majority of comics are not worth CGC grading fees, shipping fees, 4 month waiting times et cetera. You realize that slabbing a book costs $20+ right? How many of those "raw" copies cost less than the cost of slabbing? These numbers you are throwing out really doesn't show anything other than there are millions of comics not worth the cost of slabbing. Using these numbers in the way you are is reaching for something that isn't there.

Exactly, it's people hoarding 181 I disagree with. Do you have any you'd be willing to part with...?

Slight correction...I didn't say #299 would be considered a "full appearance", because it's not. It would be, however, more important if not for #298.

I see. We have gone from: to: to: So, in the span of those three posts, by you, you went from "NONE of the Alpha Flight team members are talking (which isn't true), fighting as a team (also not true), or part of story (also not true), the appearance is just one panel of each team member (also not true), and they only "clearly" appear on page 2 (also not true), to "ok, but only Shaman and Sasquatch are active in the issue (also not true), to "ok but Northstar and Aurora don't clearly appear (also not true...their costumes make it blatantly obvious as to precisely who they are.)" And you ask how others "misread what you type"...? I think the real answer is that you didn't know what you meant, because you hadn't closely paid attention to the issue, and were caught making things up you didn't know about. You still haven't answered any of my concerns, like "why is talking so important in determining what is, and is not, a cameo appearance" and what does a "single page appearance" mean as it relates to Gamora. You're never going to find "the exact same type of cameo" as Gamora, because every single comic book is unique. You can only find examples that are similar. I gave you the benefit of the doubt not once, but twice. You can't just make stuff up without doing proper research and not expect someone to call you on it. It's nothing personal, but this is the big leagues,. You need to know your stuff around here. By all means, if anyone else reads what you wrote differently from what I'm reading, I'd be happy to listen to their explanation as to how. I am glad to know you respect my honesty, however.

There are 2,704,568 currently for sale on eBay in the section titled "comics." Of those listings, 64,061 have CGC in the title, which includes PGX books, "CGC it!" and the like. So, 2.4% of the listings are "CGC related." The other 97.6% of the listings in comics have no direct link to CGC. I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of the comic collecting world doesn't really care about CGC. Just for comparison's sake: 120,827 of the listings have "Batman" in the title. Nearly twice as many listings have to do with one character, than all the listings that have CGC in the title combined.

I do agree its become ridiculous. So have the prices being paid for funny books. Things change, It WAS that way, but its not anymore. I didn't chose it, the collecting community has decided they want to be told what " THE" book is. I think that point is lost to many on these boards because this is the upper end area of collecting. We don't normally think the same as " average" collectors. I don't agree with most of this, but ok. "Price paid" is entirely relative. And yes, it WAS that way, and is now not. According to whom? Who "sets" the "standard"? The people on this board can barely agree what time it is, much less some sort of standardized list on what constitutes an appearance. Thor #165 and #166 were key books back during the original Warlock revival of the early 90's. They were not "hardly blinked at." I think many of you put far too much weight on CGC's labels. CGC has a drop of water in a gigantic lake's worth of influence on the market. The vast, vast majority of people who buy comics have little to nothing to do with CGC or slabbing in general, and certainly could not care less what the label says on a slab.

On cameos in general: It's important to understand that, for most of the history of comics as collectibles, people didn't distinguish between "cameo" and "first appearance." There were some notable exceptions (More Fun #51), but they were very rare exceptions. No one did panel counts, and said "well, if there's THIS many panels, and they're speaking, it's not, but if there's THAT many panels, and they appear on the cover, it is", etc. This only began to be a question during the early 80's, when people were wondering what should be worth more.....Hulk #180, or #181. The conventional wisdom said "first appearance is first appearance, no matter how small." And that's what collectors bought. But now, we have this whole discussion about what's a cameo, and what's not, and it all gets very convoluted. The market, as ever, decides what will be.

The dynamic of Spidey #298-300 has always been intriguing. On the one hand, you have McFarlane's first art, issue #298, unquestioned since McFarlane became "hot" as a "big book." In fact, for the first 5 years or so of their existence, #298 was often ahead of #300 in value, and then grew to about par...until Venom became such a big character, and ever since, #300 has left #298 in the dust. #299 has always played second fiddle to both of those books. If #299 had NOT been drawn by McFarlane, then it would undoubtedly be considered a Hulk #180 type situation, and be far more sought after than it has been (considering that the art would have been the same basic layout.) That big last page with Venom is tremendous. But, because of #298 and #300, #299 has always gotten short shrift. #300 is, far and away, the book to own of the run, and the single most important Spiderman book after #129 (long since outpacing #238), and the most important Spiderman villain of the last 40 years, if not the last 50. It can be reasonably claimed, at this point, that Venom is Spiderman's Joker, having surpassed even the Green Goblin in integral importance to the character.

I love George Perez. I really do.

I have to ask...have you read this issue? I'm not trying to be rude, but you're continuing to make errors about the content of this book. There is an entire page which features Northstar and Aurora's interaction with Nightcrawler. I am glad, though, that you have recognized that Sasquatch and Shaman are active in this issue. I don't know what the "full team is not assembled" means in the context of this discussion, but the only one of AF who doesn't have an active role in the story is Snowbird. All the others take part in the story. I understood your point, and I offered examples to address it. That's ok if you don't accept them as valid; that's what dialogue is all about. Again....I have never heard of a "talking" requirement as a determining factor in distinguishing between a cameo and a full appearance. That's not to say it's not possible, I have simply never heard anyone make that claim until now. Wolverine talks on the last page of Hulk #180. I don't know what you mean by "single page appearance" as it relates to Gamora. I'm not as familiar with #118 at the moment to discuss it intelligently. I am aware that it is considered his first appearance. However, if he appears less than Gamora, it should be considered a cameo. Whatever the market, as a whole, considers is what is, regardless of any individual arguments (including mine.)

I hope so

i didn't know there was an issue on Gamora's first full appearance. i thought all the while it was Strange Tales 180 If you read both issues, 180 comes off more like a cameo and her name isn't revealed until #181 Sorry fellas, I agree with CGC ST 180 is the first appearance Gamora not cameo. She is talking and shown in multiple panels and key part in the current story. No way CGC changes this. reference: similar issue iron man 118 There is not much dispute on this one, 180 is first. I agree with the contention that #180 is more of a cameo appearance. Just read them recently, and came away with that perspective. RMA do you know a book that has similar character appearance that was labeled Cameo? when I say similar, I am not talking the last page or where the story refers to a book that wasn't released in local comic shops yet. Omega Men #3. His first "full" appearance isn't until #10. X-Men #120. Alpha appears on several pages within the story. That's just off the top of my head. Ok Omega Men 3 is not similar because the character is on the cover. As I stated before, that makes the argument even BETTER for ST #180 being a cameo, because OM #3 has been called a cameo, even though he appears on the cover. How much LESS, than, a character that does not, and has *about* the same amount of panel appearances? That Lobo appears on the cover makes my argument stronger. Talking? I'm not aware of any "talking" requirement being part of the cameo definition, but let's consider X-Men #120 more fully. I'm not sure if you've read it, because you've made several mistakes: Alpha Flight appears on the cover. Yes, in shadow, but still on the cover nonetheless. Alpha is not only introduced with a short bio of each character, including a full panel shot of their faces, but they appear in a grand total of 18 panels, over 7 different pages. And, since we're discussing "talking"...Sasquatch, Shaman, Northstar and Aurora ALL have dialogue in the issue. However, it is about as classic a "cameo" appearance as there is. None of the characters actually appear in full costume, full figure, except for Vindicator, who was introduced in #109. Maybe you've forgotten these things, I don't know. But when the characters have their codenames and a small bio on each, as well as multiple partial appearances within the story, as well as dialogue, that's one of the most "classic" cameos in the history of comics, specifically designed by Claremont and Byrne to be intro'd that way. If THAT is a cameo...then yes, ST #180 is a true cameo as well.

If you read both issues, 180 comes off more like a cameo and her name isn't revealed until #181 Sorry fellas, I agree with CGC ST 180 is the first appearance Gamora not cameo. She is talking and shown in multiple panels and key part in the current story. No way CGC changes this. reference: similar issue iron man 118 There is not much dispute on this one, 180 is first. I agree with the contention that #180 is more of a cameo appearance. Just read them recently, and came away with that perspective. RMA do you know a book that has similar character appearance that was labeled Cameo? when I say similar, I am not talking the last page or where the story refers to a book that wasn't released in local comic shops yet. Omega Men #3. His first "full" appearance isn't until #10. X-Men #120. Alpha appears on several pages within the story. That's just off the top of my head. Yeah, but Lobo is the centerpiece of the cover on Omega Men 3...a little different That's my point. He's on the cover, and its STILL called a "cameo". How much more so Gamora, who doesn't appear on the cover, and is only on a few pages? But CGC says #3 is the 1st app of Lobo, not a cameo. 5 and 9 are cameos. That's been considered his first since like the early 90s whenever anyone actually gave a hoot about that issue and has been listed as such in OPG forever. I know because that's when I started hoarding it! He's in like 5 pages, that's 1/4 of the comic. I agree, but it's hard to shake the OPG perception of years. They put "1st App Lobo Cameo", and that's what stuck in people's heads. Just an example of one man's cameo being another man's full appearance.