RockMyAmadeus

So, did anyone win the current round of books from Tiffanylevine? The Black #2, and both #3s were my copies at one point, sold maybe 2 years ago? Very strong prices, even if they were reserved.

I love this thread.

I don't remember the whole story... what had the Beyonder been eating anyway? Raccoons...

Spawn the character did show what great potential he has with the mainstream by winning an Emmy for best animated series. Now that`something Deadpool can`t say. An Emmy. When is the last time something from the superhero world can say that? Here is an example of the Emmy award winning Spawn. Couple of caveats... First, the award was for "Outstanding Animated Program (for Programming One Hour or More)"...which means it wasn't up against the Simpsons, Family Guy, South Park, King of the Hill, or any of those other powerhouses. Second, the award was given only twice in the 1990's...1991 to TaleSpin, and in 1999 to Spawn. Third, there was only one other nomination that year: "Our Friend, Martin", a cartoon about the life of MLK Jr. Fourth, Batman: TAS was nominated twice (1993, 1994), in a far, far more crowded field. I mean, kudos to the Emmy, but...really....? :shrug:

He must have a large family. Yeah kind of like Sybil. The youngsters aren't going to get this reference...

Well...that's that, then. Discussion over. I guess the mods might lock the thread at this point...not making the suggestion or anything, just verbalizing out loud what might be on their minds....me, personally, I wouldn't lock it, or suggest it. I wouldn't want to be the cause for any locking of a thread or anything.....

Nope, not at all!

Just for clarity's sake, those are the PRE-ORDER rankings from Diamond. They weren't actually on sale until January of 1991.

Still trying to get the bad taste of Secret Wars II out of my mouth. Never forget the awkwardness... I'd like to know how he got that skintight white suit off with no zipper, and not even an access flap. And I hope Petey had some air freshener in the joint. Can you imagine the smell...?

Still trying to get the bad taste of Secret Wars II out of my mouth. Never forget the awkwardness... I'd like to know how he got that skintight white suit off with no zipper, and not even an access flap.

I smell maybe shilling...and that price is ridiculous. I would have happily, gladly thrown a copy at both those bidders for $50. But are your copies "GEM" VF/NM? SUPER DUPER GEM 8.5.

You're not done, are you? I've been enjoying it, too. You made a very solid argument for Spawn. Don't take my sarcasm personally. I gave you a hard time, but not out of mean-spiritedness.

I smell maybe shilling...and that price is ridiculous. I would have happily, gladly thrown a copy at both those bidders for $50.

Unless you worked at Image during the time, those are pretty much the only numbers that exist. The only other print source would be Wizard, who reported Diamond's numbers around 1992-1995. The point, however, is that the numbers don't tell the whole story, so it's hard to say "FACT" when you're not even dealing with everything, no....? I never didn't. I think you were just offended that I said Spawn is terrible. Any rational analysis will come to the same conclusion. So, in other words...no, he HAS NOT returned to Spawn for the last 50 issues, as you stated earlier. People want Todd McFarlane to DRAW. Not write. Not ink. Not do just covers. Not do "some interior work." DRAW. ...and....? You're just being ornery. ...oh, I wasn't aware those title were still being published. What are they, around issue 200 by now......?

Youngblood was the record at the time, broken by Spawn a little bit later. Wildcats did well, more than Youngblood, but not as much as Spawn. Not that Jim Lee had anything to worry about...X-Men #1 will be a record probably forever. And...really, how long does Image need to be around for it to not be called "Independent" anymore? It's been 22 years. What's "Independent" anyways? "Not Marvel or DC"? Marvel and DC were both "Independents" at one point, too. I think it's long past time to call Image or Dark Horse "Independents" anymore.

No...Adventures of Superman #500 featured the first appearance of both Steel and Cyborg Superman, and sold about twice as many copies. That would be Superboy (Kon-el/Connor Kent) Him, too.

No...Adventures of Superman #500 featured the first appearance of both Steel and Cyborg Superman, and sold about twice as many copies.

I love Todd McFarlane's art. Even the ultra-angular, flat faced Spawn stuff. Does that count?

That gets to my point. People want Todd McFarlane ART. Not stories. Not covers. Not inks. ART. Even now, if McFarlane did the title regularly, sales would be up substantially. I wish I knew what interior art he's done, but you won't tell me. No doubt. No one cared about Deadpool until around 2008. That's where I'm going to disagree with you. Spawn was at the top for a few years, but after #50, things took a drastic turn for the worse. Spawn was #11 by issue #54, in Sept. of 96. Source? Comichron? Because Comichron does not include all relevant information. Marvel was not carried by Diamond for a good chunk of 1995 and most of 1996. That means there are NO MARVEL TITLES represented. Late 1996/1997 are estimates (good estimates, but still estimates.) And, you're looking at Diamond, and Diamond was not the only distributor until 1997. There are no reliable numbers until April of 1997. AND...you're not including newsstand sales, which are reflected in none of those numbers. You know what the #1 best selling newsstand books are now, and have been for some time...? Archies. Yup. Nope. But again...do sales determine who was the most dominant? So, my having a "cool book" means I know more about it than you thought...? I already conceded that you were right that Spawn was probably the best new character of the 90's. But being the best of a pile of trash isn't much to write home about. THAT was my point. And it wasn't Spawn people wanted...it was McFarlane. He could have drawn Strawberry Shortcake, and it would have sold bazillions. Ever notice how every OTHER title featuring Spawn, or a Spawn spinoff, has gone down the tubes...? That says something significant.

(all that to say that Newshane is probably right. Lacking any other contender, as far as NEW characters go, Spawn in the 90's was probably it. )

For how long? How many months was Spawn the #1 selling comic of the month? How many months was it top 5? Top 10? Top 100? I went back to your original post, and noted that you said Spawn was in the Top 5 selling comics, in an era when tens of thousands of comics were being sold"....those two statements are in conflict. There were tens of thousands of COPIES being sold, but there were never tens of thousands of TITLES being sold. I don't think, even at the absolute height of the market in 1993, that there was even 1,000 different titles a month being sold. I think the most was a figure around 700 or so. Where do you get tens of thousands from? I'm not interested in that aspect of the conversation, sorry. You're being disingenuous. Neil Gaiman, Dave Sim, Frank Miller, and Alan Moore wrote a single issue each, as a publicity stunt. Morrison wrote three issues. They hardly contributed to the enduring legacy of Spawn. I'll even grant you Angela, though she no longer is a part of the Spawn universe. And who is David Hine? Brian Holguin? Jon Goff? What else have they done? Why does a title need to be "stacked with talent" to be great? Doesn't that mean that the title is, rather, listless and directionless? Warren Ellis turned Stormwatch into Authority, and created some of the best damn comics of the 90's. No "stacking" needed. Kurt Busiek made Astro City, also some of the best damn comics of the 90's...just the one writer. You mean, this: (my copy.) No. That's not the same character, it's not the same name, it's not the same at all. It has been called "the same" because someone confused "Max" with "Maxx" at Wizard, and it stuck. The Beast is, and always has been, Hank McCoy, whose mutation was developed in the context of the stories. The first appearance of the Maxx is Darker Image #1, published in 1993. None of which, of course, is relevant to the discussion. It was a simple example to demonstrate that there were other characters who did the things that Spawn did that you list as "dominant" features. No, but then there were other things to a far greater degree than Spawn. You didn't answer my question, though...how many recent issues has Todd McFarlane drawn?

I addressed sales numbers. Sales numbers do not (necessarily) mean "dominance" and neither do they not mean it. They are just one factor. And, as I said before....people wanted Todd McFarlane, not Spawn. Thanks for the info, I wasn't aware of that. Which issues did he draw? I stopped reading Spawn at around issue 37. That I could get through 37 issues is pretty amazing, because it's very, very bad. Disjointed, illogical, inconsistent. It makes no sense. Cool splash pages, though. I mentioned Maxx to illustrate the point that all those things you mentioned Spawn having, which made him "the king" of the 90's, weren't exclusive to Spawn. You've missed the point. Maxx had an MTV cartoon, and Maxx was....as you rightfully point out...not all that big a deal. I didn't even remotely suggest that Maxx could compare with Spawn in terms of popularity, because Spawn wins, hands down. I only brought him up to illustrate the problem with a point *you* made. And no, Maxx was not created in 1983. "Ammo"? "Argument"? I'm just having a discussion. I'm not out to "win" anything. If that's your goal, then, whatever your point may ever be, you win. I have no interest in "winning arguments." I mentioned Superman because the Death of Superman happened in 1992...not the 1930's...and was relevant to the point I was making. Do you think Superman wasn't published in the 90's? Do you think that what was happening in the rest of the market had no bearing on Spawn? I didn't bring up Batman...someone else did. I wasn't aware we couldn't stray from the original topic in threads... That's correct. I'm not sure where you see others disagreeing with that.

For those issues not very much unless they are in mint condition and even then some of those are very common. are you selling any??? I am.

Spawn ruled the 90's...for about 5 months in 1992. After that, the Death of Superman wiped him off the map, and he has remained there ever since. (Is this where I say "simple fact" to demonstrate how solidly I believe in my position?) Spawn was, indeed, a consistent top seller...until McFarlane left the book. It wasn't Spawn people wanted...it was TODD MCFARLANE. McFarlane left to do what he really wanted to do: run a business empire. And once McFarlane left, no one cared. Spawn has been a mediocre book, written for mediocre 12-14 year old boys, for 22 years. All the other factors you mentioned can be said of all sorts of other characters, including Batman and the X-Men. MAXX had his own cartoon on MTV, and he hardly comes close to ruling the 90's. Don't get me wrong...of the first wave of Image #1s, Spawn definitely rules the roost...but that's not saying much. And sales numbers means little, unless it is indeed sales numbers of the last 15 years you want to look at. Remember: the top 6 selling comic books of 1993 were Adventures of Superman #500, 501, Action #687, Man of Steel #22, Superman #78, and Turok #1....all of which sold more copies than Spawn #1 And those are all some of the worst, most ridiculous comics ever printed. He was the least mediocre in the most mediocre decade in comics...? I'll buy that. I do dispute that, even IN the 90's, he "completely dominated the decade." He was dead and buried by issue #50, with a small spurt for the movie. Make NO doubt about it: people didn't want Spawn. They wanted McFarlane. McFarlane could have drawn Strawberry Shortcake, and it would have sold 1.75 million copies. Batman had more movies and TV shows than any other hero in the 90s... But DC didn't really put enough effort into the comic line so the comics weren't that great other than Bane. Otherwise Batman still blows it all out of the water. Well, we started off the decade coming off the greatest Batmania ever.... LOTDK was going, Robin was back.... Then, we got Knightfall/Knightquest, which, all things considered, was pretty much the IT event in comics for 1993. I can see a lot of the rest of the decade being rather blah, BUT...we did close it out with one of the most critically acclaimed Bat crossovers ever, No Man's Land, which was the IT event in comics for 1999. I dunno, there's a lot of really huge Bat stuff there in the 90's..... I forgot about No Mans land. I guess that settles it. Batman ruled the 90s. You're right! Of course, in the most mediocre decade in comics, that's not too terribly hard to do. And, as CC pointed out, we were talking about NEW characters....