RockMyAmadeus

But I think there is no question that there are more back issue collectors today than there was before Ebay and CGC... has to be... there's too much more money in play today vs ten years ago... and it's not just the same people buying and selling to each other (though that is part of it).

 

You're going to have to clarify before I'll agree.

 

Do you mean "there are more collectors now than in 1993?"

 

I'll argue against that vociferously.

 

Do you mean "there are more collectors now than in 1999?"

 

Then yes, you'd be correct. A LOT of people were burned on comics in the early 90's and left in disgust. Younger buyers couldn't afford anything, so they left (and then grew up and came back), 20-something buyers were burned on comics, and some of THEM came back, and 30+ took a break, and they came back.

 

But the reality is, for every new collector who has gotten into comics since 1996, the hobby has lost 5-10 who collected prior to that, that it has not replaced. And SPECULATORS came back, in much diminished numbers, in 2007 with Cap #25, otherwise they're gone (and good riddance.)

 

When Spiderman #1 (McFarlane) sells for $5-$6 on eBay, and average print runs go back to 100K, instead of 25K, THEN I'll believe that we've gotten back the numbers that were lost in the mid 90's.

I think they will go back to 100k readers a month for Spider-man and Batman but the majority of those 100k readers will be reading thier adventures on the i-phone or upcoming I-tablet, once Spiderman/Batman comics become mainstream on the iphone, a new generation will make the keys even more expensive as they also will now seek the keys out.The high grade keys will continue to go up for silver/golden ages.I definately would not expect a crash for the real popular characters like Batman and Spider-man.

I may be in the minority, but I really don't think anything is going to replace actual printed comics....or other printed fiction...for a very, very long time.

People at the forefront of this digital "revolution" are totally ignoring the visceral reaction to holding a piece of printed stuff in your hands, kicking back on the couch, and reading it.

But I think there is no question that there are more back issue collectors today than there was before Ebay and CGC... has to be... there's too much more money in play today vs ten years ago... and it's not just the same people buying and selling to each other (though that is part of it).

You're going to have to clarify before I'll agree.

Do you mean "there are more collectors now than in 1993?"

I'll argue against that vociferously.

Do you mean "there are more collectors now than in 1999?"

Then yes, you'd be correct. A LOT of people were burned on comics in the early 90's and left in disgust. Younger buyers couldn't afford anything, so they left (and then grew up and came back), 20-something buyers were burned on comics, and some of THEM came back, and 30+ took a break, and they came back.

But the reality is, for every new collector who has gotten into comics since 1996, the hobby has lost 5-10 who collected prior to that, that it has not replaced. And SPECULATORS came back, in much diminished numbers, in 2007 with Cap #25, otherwise they're gone (and good riddance.)

When Spiderman #1 (McFarlane) sells for $5-$6 on eBay, and average print runs go back to 100K, instead of 25K, THEN I'll believe that we've gotten back the numbers that were lost in the mid 90's.

I think you have to separate comic book readers from comic book collectors.

Thought I already did....

there are far fewer buyers of comics, there are far fewer readers of comics

:shrug:

You guys are making me want to pick a fifth grade class somewhere and give them all subscriptions to....hmm, wait...what title is kid friendly these days?

 

As much sex as Spidey is having, I'm not up for signing the kiddos up for that and as much death as in TWD I can't get on board there. Super Hero Action Squad maybe?

how bout black kiss that kid friendly?

 

Not sure what Black Kiss is?.

A great book by Howard Chaykin. Definitely not for kids.

Nope. Not going to happen. You are one of the few exceptions who will look back on the 90s with affection. The vast majority of potential 'returners' will understand that they were fed garbage and generally lost their shirts.

 

Additionally, whilst the 60s and 70s were very much 'comic generations' in terms of entertainment for kids, the 80s and 90s will have a lot more competition when it comes down to nostalgic yearnings.

 

Why wouldn't the superhero movies of the 2000s reconnect these people to comics? I got forced out of comics in the mid-90s myself, but the X-Men film in 2000 pulled me back into them. The easy availability of them due to the Internet intensified my interest, much as it has intensified the entire market.

 

Again, you are an exception to the rule.

 

At the same time as the huge success of the film franchises, the comic readership numbers have continued to decline. Yes, people think it's cool to see their old heroes up on the screen, or discover them for the first time, but it hasn't driven them back to the source material.

 

No, maybe not as many new people as we would like, but certainly older people with bigger paychecks than they had in 1990.

 

Look, folks...the market is significantly smaller now than it was in the early 90's. Movies aside, "record prices" aside...the fact is, there are far fewer buyers of comics, there are far fewer readers of comics, and there are vastly few sellers of comics.

Yes, in the early 90's, there were a lot of speculators of comics who couldn't tell you the difference between Alec Holland and Alex Trebek, but there were also substantially more readers...especially younger readers (ages 5-13) and older readers (ages 30+) who were either just getting into comics, or had been reading them for a while before the glut.

The younger readers were trampled on in the pursuit of money (if you didn't get the book the second it came out, hahahaha! SUCKAH!!!!) and the older readers, who had to fight for copies of books they didn't have to fight for just a few short years before, threw their hands up in disgust at the giant Franklin Mint that was the comics industry.

It took a gut of steel to ride out the early 90's, and most people just gave up.

Trust me, it is very much in my best interests to get hordes of new collectors into the hobby....but they simply don't exist. Print runs alone bear this out.

The people who are paying "the big money" are generally people who have been in the hobby since, or before, the glut.

One of the best resources to start off is an article that was printed in Comic Book Marketplace #85 and #86. Then go to Doug Sulipa's website where he breaks down which issues he estimates are the rarest.

Been there, done that. Like I said, I had to learn all about them. These were discussed on the ebay message boards in 2000-2001. That's where I first learned of them.

(thumbs u

Can there be some fun had at my expense? I was the one who graded this copy and missed out on a little more than I originally got at first sale . How about someone coming up with a custom title for me? I mean these boards had a lot to do with me grading that book because without these boards I might of not gotten into CGC grading and created this monster several years ago now!

 

I feel for you my friend. I've had this happen to me on several books which is just the nature of the beast. My hulk 181 9.6 sold at 2k and 2 years later went to 6k, my spotlight 5 9.6 sold at 2k and 2 years later sold at 5k just to name a few. Years ago, people were rippin' on me for paying what I did which at the time was insane! I mean at the time, we were talking about a 15.00 comic at best pulling in hundreds more than the publicly known price of 510.00 and I can't tell you how many people told me that there would be more 9.9s coming any day.. Hasn't happened since the 4 years this book was originally sold. Not saying it isn't gonna happen but it wouldn't matter all that much anyway. 2 9.9s for the entire comic population is hardly enough. Even though we all see this as a high price, it doesn't mean that this book won't have a following tomorrow, nor does it mean that others are not willing to pay the same price. I mean, the book got that high in a bidding war with at least 2 participants so someone else out there wants it too. I would guess that we haven't seen the last on this book fetching big money. The only thing that would have been nice is to see less people ripping on the buyer. Crazy books have sold for crazy prices in the past and most of those "crazy" books are now worth more than their crazy prices back then. I think that the wolverine 1 9.9 was a prime example and its also a modern book. personally, I think the first app of deadpool has more going for it than the first mini series by wolverine but that is just my opinion and some may disagree and that's completely understandable to me. I just wish the buyer good luck with my book. (thumbs u

I remember talking to a collector in 1996, he paid $1,000 for a NM Fantastic Four #1, and $800.00 for a NM Green Lantern #1 out of the comic buyers guide in around 1982-1984 or so if I can remember. They were from a high grade collection that surfaced. He was practically laughed into the nut hut by his family and friends. Who would pay 1 grand for a dumb comic book. Assuming the grades remotely held up, that would of been a very, very good investment.

It is beyond ridiculous to compare FF #1 to New Mutants #98.

NOBODY bought 15 copies of FF #1 the week it was brand new, immediately bagged and boarded them, and then stuck them in a long box for 40+ years.

More than one person did just that with New Mutants #98.

Perspective, people. The two aren't remotely comparable.

I snatched up 6 copies when it was starting to warm-up, and had $250 tied up in the 6 books, all 9.6 range. I'm keeping one raw and going to slab another two, as for the other three.......got a call for the other 3 by my LCS, as they had none and had a highly motivated buyer.....said I'd be there in 15 minutes. The code we use over the phone is "motivated", so to make a long story short...we agree all three are in the 9.6 or better range.....I say $500.......buyer says $450......I fudge/squirm for a bit and say.....alright. The buyers own words were.....this is the next Hulk 181 and the next Wolverine.

 

Soooo....what do we make of this...?

 

 

Should I hold on to these, then...?

 

Drek

Clearly.

That one damn UPC #87 spoils the flow of the pic....

I snatched up 6 copies when it was starting to warm-up, and had $250 tied up in the 6 books, all 9.6 range. I'm keeping one raw and going to slab another two, as for the other three.......got a call for the other 3 by my LCS, as they had none and had a highly motivated buyer.....said I'd be there in 15 minutes. The code we use over the phone is "motivated", so to make a long story short...we agree all three are in the 9.6 or better range.....I say $500.......buyer says $450......I fudge/squirm for a bit and say.....alright. The buyers own words were.....this is the next Hulk 181 and the next Wolverine.

Soooo....what do we make of this...?

Should I hold on to these, then...?

$12,250?

 

 

 

 

Looks like pretty good deal for the average collector.

now that's worth the price of addmission

 

For that price it'd better be an all-day pass.

 

...with a spoon stamp for re-entry later.

You just gave up and typed "spoon" instead of ""...

Lazyass.

$12,250?

 

 

 

 

Looks like pretty good deal for the average collector.

now that's worth the price of addmission

 

There are hotter women available for 1/12th of that price, or less. They just aren't name brands.

So, I can get them at Wal-Mart...?

I have a Batman:The Cult #1 in 10.0 that I subbed myself. Anyone want to give me $4335 for it?

 

garbage.

 

$433.50?

 

Batman: The Cult is total . Anyone could tell you that Liefeld is a way better artist than Wrightson could ever hope to be.

 

$43.35?

I have 8 9.8s on the census. Probably 2-3 of those could fairly have been 9.9s. Did they get them? No, but if they had, this copy wouldn't have sold for $12K.

Maybe you should start resubbing them, over and over and over.

I know, right? Cause I'm "owed" a 9.9 by now....

I see a hellalot of on here

 

"hellalot of"...?

 

 

sorry, "hell of a lot of"

 

come down here, and I'll make you some sweet tea and fried eggplant to go with that winky.

Goodness.

You sure do know how to make a boy blush...

By the way....

The Dark Knight Returns #1 CGC 9.9?

Currently for sale for $7K? (Edit, it's been raised to $8K...my bad)

Also a one off, a far, far, far more important book than NM #98....

Looking like a steal, ain't it...?

And this bears little relation to the "record prices" discussion currently raging hard in this thread....

Someone pays $300K+ for a 6.5 copy of Action #1...

"OMG, what a CUH-RAZY price!!"

Except, of course, that it has 50 year of precedent of continual demand and price increases supporting that figure.

Same with most of the other books, even the GL #76.

This sale has no precedent. The highest selling 9.8U before this didn't sell for 1/30th the price of the 9.9.

And the odds of another 9.9 showing up are pretty good.

It's totally and utterly out of perspective. It is, to me, the most extreme example of "buying the label, not the book" as I have ever seen.

 

An accurate summary would be "omgwtfbbq that could have been a 9.8 on another day and bring $12,000 less at auction, lolololololo"

 

Oh my God, what the f**k, BBQ??

 

You were trolling. True.

 

I called you on it. True.

 

You remain my friend. Hopefully true.

 

But still, eat me.

 

Deffinitely true. (to the friend thing, and maybe, possibly, you know if the right combo of liquors end up in ma belly, the other thing too)

 

 

Goodness.

Drunken gay come-ons....

What would Robin think...?

I see a hellalot of on here

"hellalot of"...?

so instead of swiping at all of humanity with cuss words and hyperbola

I agree, those look like they could hurt....

All this back and forth about "it's his money, he can do what he wants with it!" and "what a person_who_is_obnoxiously_self-impressed, paying $12K for a modern book" totally veers around the point.

The difference in physical condition between this book and a strong 9.8 is non-existent.

Fully 5% of the nearly 400 9.8s now on the census are in the exact same physical condition as this book, or better.

It just so happened that the graders agreed to bestow this particular copy with a 9.9 on the day it was graded. Does it DESERVE the grade? Sure, absolutely. But so do at least 10-20 copies of the 9.8s that were graded, too.

I have 8 9.8s on the census. Probably 2-3 of those could fairly have been 9.9s. Did they get them? No, but if they had, this copy wouldn't have sold for $12K.

The buyer paid $12,000 for a piece of artwork...this:

NOT the book inside the slab. Kind of a crummy piece of artwork for $12K, but what the hey, modern art is hot.

When more 9.9s show up....and they probably will...then what? The X-Men #141 in 9.9 sold for $14,000. This book sold for 85% of that price. Which was "the best value for their money"...?

Perspective. It's totally lacking in these sales.

I am an 80's collector, and as such, have had to learn allll about Whitman 3-Packs, where they came from, why they came to be, etc.

It doesn't help that very, very few of these ever made it out to California.

God, I wish I'd been around when this thread started....great thread.

I have no #3 yellow, nor have I ever seen one.

Yo, Spreads! You get your Black #3 yet? If so, post pics.