RockMyAmadeus

(see, if I read the whole thread BEFORE responding, I wouldn't have needed to post....but what good does that do my post count, I ask you? NOTHING! )

I don't think RockMyAmadeus was talking about Mike Grell's excellent Jon Sable Freelance in his previous post. I'm sure the Silver Sable reference was about something else. At least, I hope so. Since his parenthetical immediately followed a reference to 90's drek, it definitely was a reference to the hideous 90's Marvel, Silver Sable, and not the decent 80's Grell book. I didn't need to say anything....you guys did it for me. You rock!

I don't think RockMyAmadeus was talking about Mike Grell's excellent Jon Sable Freelance in his previous post. I'm sure the Silver Sable reference was about something else. At least, I hope so. You are correct!

Ummm....what are you talking about? Read the paragraph that came from again, and all will become clear.....

And #20 was continued from #19, which was continued from #18, etc. It was a long story arc that was essentially wrapped up in #21. In fact, I imagine quite a few readers didn't even notice the difference in writers because it was fairly seamless, wespecially with Bissette & Totleben continuing as artists... And, of course, Alan Moore being Alan Moore, there continued to be elements from Pasko's run prior all the way up to American Gothic. He didn't just ditch what had come before.

Do we all not just "rent" our comic books eventually, somewhere along the line they will no longer be ours indeed as is everything else..everything eventually goes back into a box (even us) No box for me! ashes to ashes and dust to dust (thumbs u

Do we all not just "rent" our comic books eventually, somewhere along the line they will no longer be ours indeed as is everything else..everything eventually goes back into a box (even us) No box for me!

wow, both former copies of mine...cool (thumbs u You know, you never cease to amaze me with the books you own.....but even more, the books you've ownED. :hail: yeah, but like sands in an hourglass, I can't hold onto any of them... I just "rent" them Yes, but much like a Park Avenue Condo, I can't afford the rent there, either...

Wait...wait a second...we weren't talking about Alan Moore's Swamp Thing, we were talking about the fading away of long running non-superhero genre books. If you're going to bring Swamp Thing into the mix, then that's a whole different argument. Alan Moore's Swamp Thing is in a class by itself. No single creator had more influence on the comics industry in the 1980's than Alan Moore, and yes, I'm including Frank Miller. The value and influence of Alan Moore's Swamp Thing CANNOT be overstated. It is the quintessential Copper Age book, the title from which not only multiple different titles sprang, but which also created an entire publishing imprint within the oldest comics publisher on the planet. Without Alan Moore's Swamp Thing, I don't know if there would have been a Dark Knight Returns, a Watchmen, a Sandman, an Animal Man, Preacher....there DEFINITELY would not have been a Hellblazer. Or, if there was, perhaps it would not have been published by DC, and they may have had to wait much longer. While the B&W explosion was certainly important to the industry, Alan Moore's Swamp Thing was a paradigm shift in the way comics were created, a watershed in comics history. Alan Moore's Swamp Thing was more important than any and every B&W published, with the possible exception of Turtles, and then it's a tight call. If one were to date the Copper Age with a definitive start, I can think of NO more qualified SINGLE book than Swamp Thing #21. People didn't realize it then...but that single book changed the industry forever. It is as important to its era as FF #1 is to its. (and please no one make the mistake of thinking I said ST #21 was as important as FF #1. Read that sentence carefully.)

wow, both former copies of mine...cool (thumbs u You know, you never cease to amaze me with the books you own.....but even more, the books you've ownED. :hail:

How could I not have seen this thread...? Oh, I know....because I have about 5 GA Tecs. (thumbs u

(how's that analysis of the B&W explosion, noljoner...?)

Well, alrighty then. I've never heard or read anything like that, but hey, it's something new to me. I would suggest that the deaths of long running non-superhero genres were because they were no longer important, and no one was buying them. I agree completely that they were victims of the switch from the newsstand to the Direct market, but I wouldn't put them anywhere near the importance of the B&W explosion. They quietly passed away, unnoticed and unmourned by most. The B&W explosion, however, had a long lasting influence on the American comic book industry, long past the actual "explosion." One of its most important influences was that it brought us the works of creators like Matt Wagner, Jim Lee, Rob Liefeld, Stan Sakai, Ron Lim, Vince Locke, Tim Vigil, Eric Larsen, and not least, Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird, all of whom got their start, or had their most notable work, in Black and White comics, most during the "explosion." It also was the first time since the 1960's that books from companies besides Marvel and DC were really competitive with "the Big Two", at least for a little while. That may not be its greatest claim to fame, but it DID broaden the horizons of quite a few readers into books outside DC and/or Marvel...which, in turn, allowed for a more fertile environment for later companies like Valiant and Image to succeed. Without the B&W explosion, it is doubtful Image would ever have existed, and Valiant may not have been nearly as successful, as readers may not have been as willing to "try new stuff." And, of course, it allowed creators to create and SELL books that DC and Marvel would never have published at the time, so even though there was a lot of drek (mostly self) published, there were a few gems, and some of them went on to be the most influential comics of the entire decade. The same thing happened during the early 90's...comics were so successful, people like Jeff Smith, Terry Moore, Joe Linsner, and Drew Hayes, plus many others, could afford to publish their own creations and have people actually read their stuff. That environment, again, may produce a lot of drek (Silver Sable, anyone?) but it also subsidizes some truly great art, art that would otherwise never see the light of day. How many Matt Wagners, Jeff Smiths, Dave Sims, and others have not been able to create their dreams, simply because the comics publishing industry could barely support the Big Two, much less independents. I'm sure I'm forgetting other impacts the explosion had, which someone else will probably include. So, I tend to think the B&W explosion was far, far more important to comics than the (mostly unheralded) end of long running genre books, but that's just me.

You really think that the final death of long running genre books was more important than the B&W explosion....? And that the B&W explosion was just a "blip"....?

Apparently not, which is why I'm wondering where they all went...

I'd like to find that seller. I got my ashcans all at once....about 10 blues #1s, 35 reds #1s, plus the 10 black 2s and the 1 black 3...all from Jay Company, who got them straight from Sam.

So that accounts for 2 #3s. 48 more to go!

Ah yes, that's right....the A/P versions. Forgot those, and that makes perfect sense. I believe that the A/Ps are actually the artist proofs that they got back to make sure the book was decent, which would probably make them the first signed. It's possible that the A/Ps are actually part of the 50 total (meaning there are numbers missing that are "A/P") but I have nothing to support this. Thanks for sharing that info!

Do you remember what number it was? Help me document that? (As in, do you know where more than 50 copies are in one place, etc?)

If someone doesn't want to send me a pic, but there's someone else they would trust to pass along the information, that would be cool. Any information I receive in private will remain that way.

Ok...I'm trying to account for the existence and whereabouts of the Maxx Black Ashcans, particularly #3. This is for academic purposes, to discover if these books actually still exist. For those who don't know, these are black and white ashcans of the Maxx #1-3. They have a thick cardboard cover, which is black with silver artwork. Shown here: There are multiple copies of #2 floating around, and a handful of #1s have been sold on ebay in the past decade. However...I have only seen ONE black #3. There is ONE black #3 on the census, which is my copy. Does ANYBODY else reading this have one? If you do, are you willing to provide a picture and/or details about it? If you'd wish to remain private, you can PM me with the info, if you're like. I'm trying to ascertain if more exist. It is quite possible, considering how I got mine (directly from Sam Keith via Jay Company in 2002) that the rest were tossed in the late 90's, when no one cared about them. Also, any information regarding the other blacks would be appreciated as well. Let me repeat: this is for academic purposes ONLY. I have NO desire to buy yours, nor sell mine. This is NOT an attempt to gather information for sales purposes. This is a purely academic excercise. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!

Did you read my analysis of that in "What modern will be worth the most in 20 years"...? In my most humble opinion, I think it's dead on balls. Link it. http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3209443&fpart=3 (thumbs u

That is correct. (thumbs u Thank you! It's the only one I don't have in the run....eek!

You suck. I hate you. A complete run of Smith's X-Work in 9.8, signed by the man. I'll just have to content myself with having more Harby #1 9.8s than you. (seriously, that's a beautiful set. Awesome!) Paul was a real friendly guy. I had a blast talking to him and I also commissioned a Nightcrawler sketch that I gave to a buddy of mine. I only have two Harby 1 9.8s - one is signed by Shooter and JJ. The recent increase in the census was noticed on the Valiant boards and I said it was your sweet hoard. You mean it was hypothetically noticed on the boards..... Do it! I wanna see it. The only Zeph sketch I have is a SUHWEET sketch from Hobo.... Lapham only lives 5 miles away from me! I should stalk him. (I kid, I kid!)

Visions is a mag as well. What's Quadrant? Quadrant is a B&W comic published from 1983-about 1986, 8 issues. #1 was magazine size, #3-8 were comic size. I don't know what #2 was, as I don't have it, but I assume it was comic size. All featured nekkid chicks by Peter Hsu, who was VERY popular in the early to mid-80's for his nekkid chicks.