Garystar

Anecdotal but I asked a friend who started collecting in 1966 about his buying recollections. He thought US comics were probably on firm sale as spinner racks often contained comics more than a year old. He recalled buying 1965 comics in the same rack as latest issues. Of course the old comics could have been old stock recycled from another newsagent but it could be they had sat there for a year. Only his thoughts/recollections so not fact but he did own a comic shop in the 80/90s so does know something about the comic business. He also mentioned there was only one copy of each comic supplied so if another kid bought the latest Spidey or Avengers before you that was it. He remembered having to cycle around a few different newsagents in Plymouth trying to find the latest issues.

Until March 1969 Marvels were generally UKPV with stamps generally only appearing during gaps of no UKPV. In April 1969 UKPVs restarted (after a year and half gap when only T&P stamps appeared) at 1/- price, however unlike previous periods of UKPVs there is an abundance of stamped copies also. I speculated either; · There were reduced numbers of UKPVs which meant T&P needed to fill the gap with stamped cents copies · Demand had increased to the extent that T&P needed more supply · World Distributors had taken over distribution of UKPVs and T&P stamps were in competition? (I can’t find when World Distributors took over from Thorpe and Porter). From restart of UKPVs in April 1969 for around 6 months 1-9 stamping continues albeit in a rather random way, then all stamps become number 3. For one month, August 1970, the stamp becomes “5p/1/-“ and thereafter all stamps are T&P – ampersand rather than a number. The last stamp I can find is July 1971. From here on in Marvels are either UKPV or they are non-distributed – no more stamps. From April 1969 onwards I found no instances of MAJOR TITLES (Avengers, Daredevil, Spidey, FF etc) with a T&P stamp which didn’t exist as a UKPV. However lesser titles such as Peter The Little Pest (posted) Kull, Kid Colt do appear as T&P stamps where no UKPV exists. There might be something in this I’ll have a ponder.

Doesn’t advance first distribution knowledge but here’s one of mine I was surprised to see had been distributed with a T&P stamp.

Apart from a visit to Wembley I haven’t been to London since 2002 (you’ll like this Marwood, last time was to see Morrissey at Albert Hall) and I don’t think I’ll be going any time soon.

Try living in the South West - when regional slides shown our slide is always at the bottom obscured by the BBC logo and rolling banner.

Have we determined that comics were SOR in the UK? If the numbers on stamped DCs and others indicate a return schedule where do Marvels fit in - firm sale when they were UKPV and SOR when they were stamped? What about the sizable amount where the stamp is illegible. Although scarce what about Marvel UKPVs with a stamp? Even if SOR it seems a time intensive exercise for the newsagent and the distributor if they have to separate Marvel from others and then check all these hard to read numbers, wouldn’t newsagents have just cleared out the last months issues? Possible different processes in different areas? By the late 60s all Marvels were using stamp number three so possibly the stamps purpose changed over time?

I’ll open the box! No pence copies of Man From Atlantis are there.

...... but George Perez art. When/where I started collecting American comics were thin on the ground so I’d buy anything I could find - except Marvel Classics Comics which I’d leave on the shelf. My Skull the Slayer issues are in the loft otherwise might have posted one of those.

A great suggestion for the next thread! I think I've got that beat, but I can't be arsed to dig anything out.

Just checked my FF#252 and you’re right the wallet is open although the opening is very tight and would be difficult, but not impossible, to get tattooz out without causing damage. I wonder if it is completely random or if all copies of spider-man #238 (which my pictures came from) are inaccessible?

I don’t think this is right? My copies you can’t get the tattooz without ripping the paper wallet.

Pretty rough but reads exactly the same as mint. As in x-men#6 subby is wearing his away kit red trunks.

Just read UK fanzine Panelologist #2 and it says the Marvel b&w mags were distributed by Gold Star. Just couldn’t get it right could they - 1966 the stickers wouldn’t stay on, 1973 you couldn’t get them off. Although it does show that they did have a relationship with Marvel.

Just a couple of guesses; •T&P contract with Marvel expired so stamped until new arrangement agreed. •Marvel changed printers and new ones weren’t initially geared to do duel runs. ??????????

Sorry can’t help as I started collecting in 1973 when all marvels were 6p UKPV although as I’ve said before “new” T&P 5p stamped and UKPV 1/- still appeared several years out of date. I’m uncomfortable with the dock strike theory - this wouldn’t have stopped issues being printed without long prior notice (as Albert said probably less than 3 months I initially surmised but still Must have been4 to 6 weeks). The only reference to a 1964 dock strike I can find states it started on eve of general election (october 1964) and was “rapidly” settled. What sort of contract did T&P have with Marvel - I can’t believe they could just turn on and off print runs of thousands?

It’s great to hear these stories first hand, I’ve been collecting 45 years and never heard of Gold Star’s involvement before. Nor do I recall ever seeing one of the stickered comics, I’ll be on the look out now although it sounds like it may be in vain. Learning all the time.

Thanks Albert mystery solved. I was aware of the gap and I’ve seen the stamp before but just thought it was a local bookshop or dealer, it wasn’t until I did this exercise I realized the two were connected. I’ve heard the dock strike theory but this wouldn’t have stopped them being printed - they’d have had to know three months in advance for that to happen wouldn’t they?

Albert and Marwood got me curious as to patterns in the numbering so I’ve mapped Marvel T&P stamps from first monthly occurrence, November 1964, to last possible date October 1971. Observations; Pre-printed UKPV were the method of choice for pricing Marvels, the earliest known distributed marvel comic, Journey Into Mystery #58 dated May 1960, is pre-printed 9d and all subsequent distributed Marvels are also UKPV for the next few years. Pre-printed UKPV ceased later end of 1964. Some titles had their last UKPV in September 1964, whilst others had last UKPV in October or November 1964. T&P stamps do appear on a few Marvels prior to September 1964 but I have not found any prior to January 1964 (aside from annuals). These are so few and far between I am unable to determine any pattern. Depending on when their last UKPV was, there was a nine or ten month period when no UKPV Marvels were printed. During this period Oct/Nov/Dec 1964 - Jul/Aug 1965 all Marvels distributed in UK were T&P stamped. I can see no discernable pattern other than a lot of 6’s in early few months, followed by a lot of 2’s followed by a lot of 4’s. e.g Strange Tales from December 1964 = 6,6,8,8,2,3,4,4,2. The stamping is not random as most issues have the same number and there is some similarity across titles each month, Spider-man for the same period = 6,not found,8,8,2,3,4,4,4. However for example Spider-man #24 May 1965 I have found stamped 1, 2 and 3. The linear progression seen in early DCs does not hold up. August/September 1965 UKPV Marvels recommenced until Sep/Oct/Nov 1966 depending on title. I have found very few T&P stamps for this period of UKPV. Most titles had a one or two month gap between Oct and Dec 1966. I have found no T&P stamps for this period however this stamp appears quite a lot during this short period and not very often outside it; far too often to be a local or retailer stamp. Could it be that this was merely a SNAFU at printers in USA who forgot to print UKPVs and stamped them instead or perhaps T&P wanting to be incognito? UKPVs recommenced Dec 66/Jan 67, however this period of UKPVs was short lived with titles having last UKPV in Oct or Nov 1967. I have found few T&P stamps during this period. Marvels began stamping again in Nov or Dec 1967 until March 1969. Stamp numbers in this period again have no discernible pattern. Lots of 4’s – Daredevil 40 to 47 all appear as 4. Spiderman sequence Dec 67 to March 1969 = 9,6,8,9,9,4,4,7,4,4,4,3,4,7,2,4 although some of these do appear with different numbers. Thor 148 (Jan 1968) I have found numbered 3,6,7 and 9 – how about a collecting goal of getting a particular issue with all nine T&P numbers? In April 1969 UKPVs restarted yet again however unlike previous periods of UKPVs there is an abundance of stamped copies also. Why is this – were there reduced numbers of UKPVs which meant T&P needed to fill the gap with stamped cents copies, had demand increased to the extent that T&P needed more supply, had World Distributors taken over distribution of UKPVs and T&P stamps were in competition? (I can’t find when World Distributors took over from Thorpe and Porter). For around 6 months normal numbering continues albeit in a rather random way, then all stamps become number 3. For one month, August 1970, the stamp becomes “5p/ 1/-“ and thereafter all stamps are T&P – ampersand rather than a number. The last stamp I can find is July 1971. From here on in Marvels are either UKPV or they are non-distributed – no more stamps. I found no triangular sale stamps but one full price T&P sticker. · Conclusions/speculations; • Marvels were not remainders. They were UKPV from day one of distribution so obviously T&P must have ordered their quota before the comics were even printed. • Although there is evidence of batch stamping, various titles having the same number for any given month, there is no evidence that the stamps had any linear pattern. The stamps were purely used for pricing. • The numbers on many are illegible supporting theory stamps were purely used for pricing. • The primary use of UKPV, lack of linear numbering when stamps were used, absence of sale triangles suggests Marvels were treated differently to other companies.

I’ve had a sweep of most Marvel main titles, couple to go, I’ll send you spreadsheet as is in next day or two, quite a few issues I haven’t found as yet but I think there’s enough to draw some conclusions; Marvel’s default was UKPV, stamps were used to fill gaps, some evidence of batch stamping but batches weren’t linear, stamp numbers were mostly superfluous. When you see it you may see some patterns I can’t. Be in touch soon.

When Marvel enter the fray of stamping in mid 60s the linear progression of numbers seems to be lost although there are some signs, and you do see the same number repeating across titles for a given month. By the latter 60s Marvels are virtually all number 3, then all T&P (no number). Is this Marvel only or do other companies follow same pattern? I’ll post more and send Marwood spreadsheet when I’ve populated a few more titles.

First Marvels are as per Marwood’s summary on page three of this topic; The earliest known distributed Thorpe and Porter comic is Journey Into Mystery #58 dated May 1960 and is pre-printed 9d. Indeed T&P early distribution were all UKPV, stamps didn’t appear until 1962 and 1963 annuals and not regularly on monthly comics until November 1964 when there was a pause in UKPV issues. I am yet to find a stamp for October 1964, the first month with no UKPV. I have found a few earlier examples of T&P stamped Marvels but nothing (apart from annuals) before 1964 which suggests these were probably distributed months after release or possibly caught up with another company’s remainders. The earliest known distributed L Miller comic is Gunsmoke Western #58 dated May 1960 which has a stamp and printed 9d UK cover price. I would speculate that there are no T&Ps before May 1960, they did not start stamping Marvels for a couple of years and the extensive research by Marwood and Duncan McAlpine for his guide hasn’t unearthed any earlier UKPV so I very much doubt any exist. I suppose there is a possibility of kid Colt 89 or Gunsmoke western 57 (March 1960) or Two Gun Kid 53 (April 1960) turning up as Millers but these issues even as cents are so scarce in UK Millers might never be found even if they do exist. Albert and Marwood got me curious as to patterns in the numbering so I’ve started to populate a template of all Marvel T&P stamps from first monthly occurrence, November 1964, to last possible date October 1971 (although I am yet to find a stamp later than July 1971). I’ll post a summary shortly.

No sorry Marvel only. As my Marvel collection has grown (16,000+) and spread into memorabillia other things have had to give - Fanzines (music and comics) and DCs went early doors, then vinyl record collection. I need a bigger house but would have to sell comics to afford it but then I wouldn’t need the bigger house.

I’ve been collating database of all stamped Marvel’s, I’ll summarize shortly and send table when it’s more fully populated. There won’t be any advance on first distribution from what Marwood posted on page 3. when stamping starts seems completely random but need to look further to see if there are patterns across months and later on stamps are virtually all number 3s.

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Category:1959,_September heres another data base set for September 1959. Can select any month/year.