Frank Castle 74

When does Evil Ernie first technically appear?

Many agree that Evil Ernie #1 is not his first appearance, that his first appearance is really in Comic Newsletter #23.

When does he actually first appear in printed form?

Most vehemently argue that Superman is first seen flying or reasonably presumed to be flying in Action Comics #10.  However, according to sources that I've been able to find, it was later clarified that the panel(s) in which he is seen or depicted to be in "flight" were actually a creative mistake by Leo Nowak--who was new to the comic and character. Various sources also suggest that it wasn't until the Fleischer films that Superman was officially granted the ability of flight. Others argue that it is in fact, Action Comics #123 that he is first "officially" described to have the ability to fly; a narration bubble states the following in the issue: " Meanwhile, the punchboard plotters are unaware of a colorful figure flying overhead - - Superman, himself!” In other words, in issue #123, not only is Superman dawn in positions--in mid-air--that would suggest the ability to fly, but it is also explicitly mentioned by the book's narrator. Although, there is yet another comic that vies for the definitive comic book depiction of Superman's ability to fly.

This occurs in Superman issue #30; Superman is seen in several panels--zig-zagging through the sky--alongside Mr. Mxyzptlk. Superman even states to Mr. Mxyzptlk "I thought I was the only man who could fly!!" Considering everything mentioned here, when do you think Superman's ability to fly was definitively depicted in a comic book?

On 3/7/2022 at 5:52 AM, Troy Division said:

All true points, but below is a direct quote from the literal first post opening this thread in 2007.
Please review rules 1 and 2.

 

Oh okay, I understand now, that was my mistake. 

Feast your eyes! Here's a one-of-a-kind, and it is THE ONLY COPY with everyone's signature. 

Justice League Adventures #1 SS CGC 9.8 - Signed by Maria Canals-Barrera (Hawk-Girl), Susan Eisenberg (Wonder Woman), Phil Lamarr (Green Lantern), Carl Lumby (Martian Manhunter), George Newbern (Superman), Andrea Romano (Voice Casting Director for Justice League, Batman: The Animated Series, etc.), Bruce Timm (Writer/Producer/Director/Creator for Batman: The Animated Series, Superman: The Animated Series, Justice League: The Animated Series, etc.), Kevin Conroy (Batman), and Michael Rosenbaum (Flash). 

On 3/5/2022 at 3:46 AM, Troy Division said:

Great looking books and signatures.
But neither book meets the criteria for inclusion here as there are (209) UXM 9.8 SS #221s and (106) XF 9.8 SS #6s.
Unsure of the self promotion aspect of it all...might be okay...
But I feel that it best belongs in this thread...
https://boards.cgccomics.com/forum/19-comics-market-sales-advertising-ebay-dealers-etc/

I could see your point, but I always wondered how many of those SS copies are signed by Stan, and how many have 4 or 5 signatures? It's incredibly difficult to maintain a 9.8 grade with this number of signatures--especially now. It's my understanding that CGC recently stated they wouldn't guarantee the grade of signature series submissions anymore; if you send an already graded book to them--even if it's a CGC book--they won't guarantee you'll retain the grade when it's signed and returned to you. 

I wish I could have kept the two here.  

On 3/5/2022 at 11:19 AM, Upgrayedd2 said:

I followed several of the Promise Collection issues when they went up for auction. It was amazing to see the prices skyrocket. 

Then, within minutes/hours (?) of the auction closing, a lot of the comics were listed for sale (on the same auction site) at a higher price. Really made me wonder what happened?

It's just strange when this happens, right?

On 3/4/2022 at 11:07 PM, Jesse-Lee said:

"I'd rather you just say thank you, and go on your way..."

Seriously though, I know I'm inserting myself into an ongoing argument here, but I think many people would agree that the MCU is an organized effort that stays true to its source material as a service to long-time fans, while drawing in new fans through really good movies that can stand alone or be watched as an integrated universe. DCEU; not so much. From a comics standpoint, I've always been a DC guy. From a movie standpoint, they can't hold a candle to the MCU. The characters and stories in the MCU seem like they were ripped right from the pages of comics. The characters and stories in the DCEU are a muddled mess.

Robert Downey Jr. has been Iron Man since 2008, and he absolutely embodies the character. We've had three different big-screen Batmans in that same time-frame. The DCEU often strays much further from its source material - characters, settings, etc. - than the MCU. You can argue that you don't need to re-hash stories or character types, or even to have an interconnected universe; but one look at the success of the MCU show that it's what many fans want.

The ZSJL is just ok. Ezra Miller is a crappy Flash. Henry Cavill is a mediocre Superman. Who is the DCEU Batman going forward? Gal Gadot is an amazing Wonder Woman, but 1984 was a mess. Momoa is fine as Aquaman I guess. Joker and The Batman were really good movies, but they're standalone glimpses into the DC Universe. Same with Suicide Squad (the recent one obviously) and Peacemaker. Birds of Prey had so much potential - Margot Robbie is an awesome Harley, and I loved Rosie Perez as Montoya - but they ruined Cassandra Cain and ruined/wasted Black Mask. The TV shows are a hot mess compared to the Marvel shows. It's frustrating as a DC fan. @Frank Castle 74 hit the nail on the head with this:

 

Give this man a cigar!

X-Men: Dark Phoenix, Black Widow, Thor: The Dark World, and Incredible Hulk are all are severely lacking; I've never praised any of these films or recommended them. In fact, I made it a point to discourage others from seeing them. 

I agree that adding Darkseid was positive (it sets things up for future films), but given the circumstances surrounding the release of Snyder's cut, it wasn't as impactful as it could have been if everything had gone accordingly--as you mention. This was the main point that I was trying to make. Criticism of various Marvel and DC films shouldn't be controversial.   

Put a fork in me already. 

On 3/4/2022 at 9:02 PM, ▫️ said:

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make with Darkseid. You first stated he was added as an afterthought when he was always part of the original movie that got butchered by Whedon after Snyder left the project due to his child’s death. But we now know he was there in the original cut in 2017. As for Darkseid being planned since the first Wonder Woman, it stands to reason that since Snyder produced Wonder Woman which was released in 2017, then yes, Darkseid was still part of the plan to appear in JL.  

There is no point I'm trying to make, I'm asking a legitimate question. Mentioning a child's death to make me seem ridiculous for asking is outrageous and exploitative. 

The film was first released WITHOUT DARKSEID. Then FOUR YEARS LATER (long after average moviegoers had lost interest in the film) they re-released Snyder's cut of the film. The initial excitement and interest around the film had passed, and THEN after four years, they RE-RELEASED it AGAIN with Darkseid. New fans--unfamiliar with the comics--would see this as a gimmick/money-grab or possibly a rip-off of the Thanos character--even though people who are familiar with the comics know this isn't true. You need the ability to view things from the lens of someone unfamiliar with comics. 

You do understand when you wait four years and then release something again--even if you include new or compelling components to the story--it isn't going to produce the same effect as if it were being seen or released for the first time? What I'm explaining is just basic logic at this point. 

On 2/25/2022 at 10:31 AM, mlee17513 said:

Has anyone else experienced this?  I resubmitted a slabbed CGC Signature Series 9.6 Batman/Spawn to have Frank Miller's signature added to the existing Todd McFarlane signature.  After Frank's signing, the comic grade dropped all the way to 7.5?  Was the book mishandled during opening?  Was Frank that rough when signing?  Or is CGC really that inconsistent with grades? 

It's my understanding that CGC will no longer guarantee your submission will retain its original grade; I forgot exactly where I read that. Among several other reasons, this is why lots of multi-signature books are commanding exorbitant prices. That is a huge grade drop; it's possible someone may have dropped or mishandled the book. I've been reluctant to send my signature series books for additional signatures. 

Were they planning to include Darkseid since they first began production on the first Wonder Woman movie?

On 3/4/2022 at 1:10 PM, Gaard said:

I have no experience with CC or Heritage, but have won dozens of books from CL's auctions. I learned long ago to wait until the last few seconds to put my max bid in. Shill bidding or not, the chances of paying your max price is much greater if you put that bid in early. Yes, I speak from experience.

There's a big difference (and I'm looking at you, @William-James88) between paying your max price for legitimate reasons and paying your max price due to what you suspect is a little funny business.

It became suspicious when I attempted to snipe but was repeatedly logged out on CL. That had never happened to me before. 

It was the Star Wars bug.

On 3/4/2022 at 6:50 AM, Bosco685 said:

It does have a better track record. To include once The Incredible Hulk bombed at the box office as the second MCU film the Marvel Studios leadership team didn't rush off to retool everything out of desperation. They stayed the course.

Meanwhile, despite horrible WB Studios portfolio handling, DC films and TV shows still stand out more often than not. And assuming everything must be plugged into a connected world is an approach - but not the only approach. If the DC executives had their way to overrule WB Studios it would clearly hit on the DC Multiverse like Jim Lee was able to pull off in the CW Crisis crossover with Ezra Miller appearing. That was his brainchild.

Agreed. 

I appreciate your willingness to discuss things civilly. 

As far as DC films go, I wish they'd take things a little more seriously at WB. These are incredible storylines they have to work with and they're not putting people who are passionate about comics or familiar with characters in charge of making the film.  

On 3/4/2022 at 6:33 AM, Bosco685 said:

So if someone is a Marvel and DC fan then they are here just to get upset - only 'true' Marvel fans get it??

Come on, man. You are pretty much confirming "MAKE MINE MARVEL" and may be allowing that blinder to focus more on how to detract from DC. There's no healthy mindset in that.

I like DC and Marvel equally; I grew up watching Batman: The Animated Series, Justice League, Superman: The Animated Series, and Justice League: Unlimited. But I gravitated towards Marvel movies after Batman (1989). My comic book collection is a mixed bag, with lots of Marvel and DC. As far as modern DC and Marvel films go, I just feel Marvel is more organized. Are they perfect? No. But they have an overall better track record. 

On 3/4/2022 at 6:17 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Are you admitting that you're wrong?

You do realize I was speaking on three separate topics in my original post? Ha-ha! 

Are you the contrarian of this forum? I have neither the time nor inclination to waste any further effort on this exchange. The world is full of people who will disagree with you; I'm willing to agree to disagree; I chose to lead a cancer-free life. 

On 3/4/2022 at 6:15 AM, Bosco685 said:

You may not be as aware of DC film history as you are with other franchises or studios.

Snyder only added an additional 5-8 minutes of new footage. The rest had been shot already, and needed to be finished requiring the $70M.

Ray Porter, the voice actor for Darkseid, came out a few years ago noting he had completed scenes that were cut from the 2017 film. So those were never new. It was in the original cut.

This still doesn't take away from the fact that the film--when originally released--did not include Darkseid. The impact of the character and what it meant for the franchise in the future was tainted.

It's like a surprise birthday party you're throwing for someone, and they walk in and you yell surprise--only their significant other wasn't present for the moment. So you plan another surprise the next day--with their significant other there. Only this time their expression is less excited and it doesn't really hold the same meaning. Horrible example, I know. But hopefully amusing.  

I can only assume that you're a serious DC fan, so I understand if what I'm saying might be upsetting. But you can't deny things were not handled very well at WB. 

On 3/4/2022 at 4:11 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Um... What...? How is Darkseid an afterthought? He's not some sort of post-credit feature. He was literally Earth's first contact with Apokolips.

Hate to break it to you, but most of the Fourth World stuff is ignored in modern storytelling, and the DCEU is based off of New 52, so... Hey, everyone! Big surprise here! A movie with gods among us, like Superman, Wonder Woman, The Flash, and Cyborg relied heavily on VFX!

What political commentary was in ZSJL after all?

Kind of jumped the gun there, son.

On 3/4/2022 at 3:41 AM, Bosco685 said:

I respect this is your opinion.

But this ignores the fact Darkseid has been a mainline DC Universe threat and antagonist of the Justice League for decades. And that Snyder had him in the 2017 movie but Josstice League removed the character.

It's like the MCU fanatics that proclaim The Flash movie is 'stealing' the Multiverse concept from Spider-Man: No Way Home when the CW shows were using this going back to 2016 and even had a Brandon Routh Kingdom Come Superman meet the CW Superman along with Ezra Miller and Grant Gustin Flash characters meet in the 2020 Crisis On Infinite Earths crossover mini.

"Throwing in Darkseid" was not an insult to comic book fans: it honors the reality of the DC Universe by bringing him forward.

I wasn't referring to the comics, I was referring to the film not including the character, to begin with. They didn't strategically craft Darkseid into film continuity--as Marvel did with Thanos; instead, they said "oh, hey! let's add Darkseid---we kind of forgot that part." That's what I was saying; that's what I meant by afterthought. I know who Darkseid is and I'm familiar with the source material. 

On 3/4/2022 at 4:11 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Um... What...? How is Darkseid an afterthought? He's not some sort of post-credit feature. He was literally Earth's first contact with Apokolips.

Hate to break it to you, but most of the Fourth World stuff is ignored in modern storytelling, and the DCEU is based off of New 52, so... Hey, everyone! Big surprise here! A movie with gods among us, like Superman, Wonder Woman, The Flash, and Cyborg relied heavily on VFX!

What political commentary was in ZSJL after all?

They re-released the film with Darkseid; that's my point. It's a pivotal character and they didn't originally plan the movie to include the character--understand? They added him after the fact. I'm talking about the FILM, my friend. And I said political climate, not commentary, you might need an eye exam. 

*******CLOSED******

Both of these books are from my personal collection and are up for auction on eBay. If you are interested in either one, please take a look at the listings on eBay.

FEATURED BOOKS:

X-Men #221 Signature Series CGC 9.8 - Signed by Stan Lee, Chris Claremont, Jim Shooter, and Marc Silvestri. 

X-Factor #6 Signature Series CGC 9.8 - Signed by Stan Lee, Bob Layton, Louise Simonson, Joe Rubinstein, and Bob Mcleod. 

*******CLOSED******

Both of these books are from my personal collection and are up for auction on eBay. If you are interested in either one, please take a look at the listings on eBay.

FEATURED BOOKS:

X-Men #221 Signature Series CGC 9.8 - Signed by Stan Lee, Chris Claremont, Jim Shooter, and Marc Silvestri. 

X-Factor #6 Signature Series CGC 9.8 - Signed by Stan Lee, Bob Layton, Louise Simonson, Joe Rubinstein, and Bob Mcleod. 

Both of these books are from my personal collection and are up for auction on eBay. If you are interested in either one, please take a look at the listings on eBay.

FEATURED BOOKS:

X-Men #221 Signature Series CGC 9.8 - Signed by Stan Lee, Chris Claremont, Jim Shooter, and Marc Silvestri. 

X-Factor #6 Signature Series CGC 9.8 - Signed by Stan Lee, Bob Layton, Louise Simonson, Joe Rubinstein, and Bob Mcleod. 

I didn't enjoy any of the recent DC films; they seemed absurdly ostentatious and desperate to keep pace with Marvel. Throwing Darkseid in as an afterthought in Justice League is just insulting to comic book fans. Scrapping the current Justice League projects and continuity and starting fresh wouldn't be such a horrible idea.

Honor Jack Kirby's legacy with talented direction, (not famous but) quality actors, and writing that remains true to the source material. The Justice League films relied primarily on extravagant special effects and the current political climate to manufacture their short-lived success. Thank the New and Old Gods that the New Gods movie was canceled. Do it right or don't do it at all.