The Cimmerians Purse

Not to poke the bear... but I cant help myself, and have to "contribute" to this morning's heated debate. My Theorem is but if they had put out an issue every month... instead of the irregular start they had

Mathematical Proof:

March 63 =1, apr 63 =2, May 63 = 4, Jun 63 =5, jul63 =6, aug 63 =7, sep 63 =8, nov 63 =9, dec 63 =10, jan 64 = 11, feb 64 =12

and then march 1964 would have been issue 13, therefore year 2...

Are alternate realities on the table? This is Marvel we're talking about after all.

If we assume alternate realities, then quid pro quo.

the real message here is... does anyone know if Heritage Auctions accepts pinky toes in exchange for ASM Ditko art?

1 hour ago, batman_fan said:

Is time travel involved in this discussion, because if time travel is involved, all bets are off.

I'm pretty sure it is... we are talking about Marvel, AND during the Stan Lee period.

Thank you for my morning entertainment! 

On 9/25/2019 at 5:29 PM, batman_fan said:

Unfortunately not, I am in Colorado but a few of us have talked about doing a meet up.

Sorry I missed your response somehow. Good luck to you all as well! Ill be rooting for it to happen 🙂

5 hours ago, vodou said:

whoa

somehow I missed that you are complete issue guy

Murder Falcon came out when I was assessing my own life’s priorities… so, it really, really hit me in the feels. Perfect book at the perfect time. So by the time the series ended I just knew what I had to do. 

18 minutes ago, awayne83 said:

Thanks for the kind comments. I recognized you from that DWJ complete issue you have. I remember you posting on here about that, and how excited you were.

I used to be into collected editions but sold most of them off earlier this year, so i haven't read many comics in the last 6 months or so. Creator-owned was where it was at for me mostly the last several years. Image, Dark Horse, etc have been a great avenue for creators to flex their creative muscles. 

I had that WW commissioned at Heroes this year. Matteo is a cool dude, even though his prices jumped considerably this year. I won't hold that against him

Yeah I've had my periods of not reading as much, but I always come back. I really just love the medium.

Still super stoked over that complete DWJ Murder Falcon Issue.

... I still cant flip through it without getting a teary eyed. It's a super emotional issue. Daniel's work is fantastic! I can't wait for his Wonder Woman in December.

I wonder how many times we passed each other in the aisles this year at Heroes. Probably a bunch lol! That Commission is fantastic!

1 hour ago, vodou said:

It's not what you make but what you keep

... and then dump at sweet sweet comic book OA!  

1 hour ago, awayne83 said:

Mostly modern/current superhero stuff. I don't have much affinity for pre '90 or so (and most of that nostalgic sweet spot is out of my range unfortunately). Started out collecting covers mostly, but have gotten into panel pages more so recently. 

 

CAF Link

I'm all over the place. Classic stuff, new stuff. I still love reading comics. I'm very eclectic from a genre perspective. If I like the creative team working on a project then I'll read it. So, that puts me a bit all over the place. My BIG genre, however, is horror.

I took a look at your CAF link you've got some real neat art. That Wonder Woman commission is fantastic!

12 hours ago, J.Sid said:

Also, $10k for a Kirby Thor panel page is a smaller percentage of the average New Yorker's income than say, a collector from North Carolina, where that amount might be 25% of their annual salary.

Maybe, that North Carolinian's housing and living expenses are also much lower, so no telling on the net of those two effects. Also depends on what job they're doing too. 130k goes a real long way in NC, but in new York... probably not so much.

18 hours ago, grapeape said:

Blastaar you are a legit good contributor with a passion for art. I get where you’re coming from. I started in 1996 and I managed to hold on to three key pieces acquired between 1997-2003 that are very valuable today.

I made very smart buys and today everything I own has been paid for from the profits of the art I sold. 

Focus.

I swear I didn’t have a lot of money. But I learned to focus. Focus on one great piece then do everything in your power to get it. 

Many of my friends would impulse buy $100-$400 pages because they were restless/ Then a great page would come up and they were scrambling to get funds.

its hard to flip art today to acquire bigger and better. So many people know the FMV of what they have. You’re probably over paying on most anything you want to buy. I think a Kamandi page is doable

Blastaar focus on one great page.

After you  obtain that page hold it at all costs..

Zero in on your next desired art.

You will build a collection over time. don’t worry about the past. I too cursed not finding OA until 1996. I’ll never get a Romita page without paying crazy amount. Things I missed out on.

Focus is the key 

Focus on one desired piece and do whatever you have to to get it.

Best to you

+1 on this is good advice. Buy something whether it's new or old because you love it, and only because you love it.

16 hours ago, awayne83 said:

I live about 20 min NE of Charlotte. I work weekends however, so my availability is suspect. But we are around lol!!

Killer! nice to meet you man! Welcome to the group

What kind of comics / comic art are you into?

I'm Keith

1 hour ago, batman_fan said:

Good luck with getting folks together 

are you in the south east???? 

1 hour ago, batman_fan said:

Good luck with getting folks together 

I appreciate it. It'd be fun meeting more collectors, specifically face to face. 

I also smoke a MEAN BBQ pork butt  

7 minutes ago, alxjhnsn said:

Yes, you are probably right and I'd be very happy with an interior with the Creeper on it.

YEAH! I think it should be in your "on the horizon" list! I'm also a horrible influence! 

1 hour ago, alxjhnsn said:

Being in the NYC area back in the day was a big advantage.

I guess I don't feel too left out because there is so much new stuff that I enjoy.

 

That said, I'd love to acquire some of these older pages, but I don't see it happening for the majority of them.

• Swan/Klein Superman or LSH page
• Shuster Superman
• Kirby Thor or New Gods page
• Marshall Rogers Detective (Batman) page from his wonderful run with Steve Englehart and Terry Austin
• Sprang Batman
• Everett Sub-Mariner page
• Mayer Scribbly page (if there are any)
• Steve Ditko Creeper

On the possible horizon are:

• Swanderson Superman page
• Aparo B&B page (art and letters by Jim)

I think that Ditko Creeper page is achievable. Especially if you're looking for an interior page. It would be a cool pickup  

Hey guys, 

Hope everyone is having a fantastic week! I was interested in getting a role call going for NC OA collectors on the boards. I thought it would be super cool to get a little collecting club together if there's enough of us. Maybe have some BBQs or what ever. I'm in the Charlotte Area. But there's loads of interesting areas all across the state to do this kind of thing at: the mountains, the beach, surrounding regions of other states, where ever. 

If this is something that interests you, then respond to this post or PM. I think it would be super cool to meet more local collectors in a face to face social environment. 

~Keith 

29 minutes ago, Blastaar said:

But I really really want a Kirby!

 

 

I do believe once I get a desired page it will mean that much more to me. Working toward a Kamandi page that is within reach. 

If you really want a Kirby I think that goal is attainable... If you have to have a Kirby FF cover then hopefully other investments work out: Stocks, property values, winning the powerball.. There's plenty of Kirby out there at many different price levels. If you want to get something for 4k, you can find lesser known characters, or a hulk page that he did layouts on but didnt do all the pencils (there's on in this HA auction), if you want to spend 10k you can find a neat panel page where he had full pencil credit.. etc etc. and up the board. It all depends on what it is you really want. For instance I really wanted a Ditko page, but luckily for me what I really wanted was a Warren Ditko page, cause that's MY jam. So I didn't have to pay the ASM Iron price. 

I love Bernie Wrightson, and I've put together a nice little collection, but unless something big happens to my finances, or Mr. Del Toro is willing to accept a pinky finger instead of money, then i'll never get the Frankenstein plate of my dreams. But that's ok. I LOVE the pieces that I have  

I also am not a big dog, but i thought this topic was interesting. Because I do have a number of interests in vintage art, and I've only just started buying vintage pieces. But I'm able to buy things that I really love now because I've been working and saving, and I love it enough to prioritize it.

I also just don't compare my collection against other peoples. especially not people who started amassing theirs in 1980s / 90s. If people see pieces that I have that they like, great. If they don't care for my collection also, great. I love my collection. That's what matters. 

Go get that Kamandi! and be super super excited that you have it when you finally get your grubby little mitts on it!  

24 minutes ago, vodou said:

Essex County

Lost Dogs

Underwater Welder

A.D.

...in that order

I'm Keith By the way  

24 minutes ago, vodou said:

Essex County

Lost Dogs

Underwater Welder

A.D.

...in that order

Sweet! thanks man  

21 minutes ago, vodou said:

Oh man you're doing my reading list from last year; I read everything Lemire that's been collected, all in the space of a month or so. I kind of got burnt out actually.

This year was Stray Bullets. Nearly 90 issues straight. That one I never got tired of.

Man, he's so good. I started with Black Hammer, now Sweet Tooth, Which of his series do you think I should read next? I'm looking forward to the new one he has coming out with Phil Hestor, Family Tree. It sounds super cool. I love his story driven writing style.

2 hours ago, vodou said:

It's a lotta fun

HECK YEAH! I'm glad to hear it! Just finishing up Sweet Tooth first, and it's next on my list. Really looking forward to it. 

28 minutes ago, vodou said:

and

I can only do if there's zero continuity knowledge required. I'm 24 years out with no interest in ever "catching up".

Tempted by DWJ, I've enjoyed everything collected so far -even his really early stuff- except MF, haven't picked that up yet, waiting for trade, that out yet?

I would love if the fat weekly manga anthology model ever made it over here (made it = not just tried once but popular and profitable, becoming paradigm). That's the way I (and others in a similar boat re: trusting publishers) could try out a lot of new things, in a single cheapie newsprint volume, without feeling ripped off. I'd say that's about the only chance of pulling me back into the pull-list fold.

Murder Falcon Trade does appear to be available on Amazon. Enjoy, and hail Bruticus 

14 minutes ago, vodou said:

and

I can only do if there's zero continuity knowledge required. I'm 24 years out with no interest in ever "catching up".

Tempted by DWJ, I've enjoyed everything collected so far -even his really early stuff- except MF, haven't picked that up yet, waiting for trade, that out yet?

I would love if the fat weekly manga anthology model ever made it over here (made it = not just tried once but popular and profitable, becoming paradigm). That's the way I (and others in a similar boat re: trusting publishers) could try out a lot of new things, in a single cheapie newsprint volume, without feeling ripped off. I'd say that's about the only chance of pulling me back into the pull-list fold.

For house of X / Powers of X only basic knowledge of X-Men is required. I.e. knowing who the main characters are, in this case mostly just the classic Xmen, and knowing basics about their struggle for the right to exist. He doesn't glom onto continuity at all.  I'm in same boat. Haven't touched X-men in at least as long. So I'm going off of limited, and old memory of Xmen and still really enjoying.

YEAH! DWJ is the STUFF! The only one I haven't read yet is Space Mullet. And I just picked it up, so that'll be remedied soon. Dude's a damn genius. And his OA is fantastic!

I'm not sure if MF trade is out now or not. It should be right around the corner if it isn't.  I read them digitally... I don't like collecting floppies anymore either. So digital reading is my happy medium for when I want to read something now, but also not have to store it, or give it away later. I'm hoping they do a hard cover for Murder Falcon. I want it for my bookshelf, and it was so good that I'm willing to buy it all over again lol.

18 minutes ago, vodou said:

 

The straw for me was the slate of new #1 issues with Liefeld and Lee returning to Marvel in 1996. I saw that for what it was -pure gimmick, after 5-7 years of endless gimmicky, oh please. My interest in Marvel at that point was only in keeping long runs current and whipping through them barely remembering the story ten minutes later, those had already stunk since, at least, the Galactic Storm era (U G H). So all those long-running series (Avengers, Cap, FF, Thor) were end-pointed and that made it so easy to just walk. I did and have not ever gone back to floppies again, 24 years and counting. I'll only buy highly-acclaimed collections that have stood the test of time from the Big Two, and those are typically written/drawn by folks that came from elsewhere, played at Big Two for a bit, and then went back to elsewhere keeping their indy credentials intact throughout...no House pets wanted or needed.

House of This or That, Old Man Logan, more Secret Wars, World War Hulk...etc...I have no idea what that stuff is and likely never will. Who cares? (Somebody...but not me.)

Preach! My rule is either very well received, or by creators that I know and love.

although I will say I have been enjoying House of X / Powers of X... but Hickman required being able to call all of the shots on those two before agreeing to do them. reading it as it's coming out breaks my normal rule, because I've only just been discovering his work via Black Science. and now his Xmen series. knowing how he made sure he had complete story latitude, and the gushing they were doing over it on 11'oclock podcast.. was enough to convince me to give it a read. Glad I did.

I'm also super excited for Daniel Warren Johnson's Wonder Woman mini series. A) because it's him, and B) because he told me at heroescon that he was only going to be willing to do it if they gave him complete latitude for the story. So I'm super excited for that, and whole-heartedly recommend it. For anyone who hasn't experienced DWJ's books do yourself a favor and read Extremity and Murder Falcon. ***Warning... Murder Falcon will make you cry like a small boy who's lost his puppy (I don't want to say at what point and spoil, but in the second half). So, be cognizant of where you are and who you're with if you pick it up.

6 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

Marvel just followed their sales impulse. If an artist was hot, they'd milk it for all they could. If a character got hot, they'd have him appear in multiple titles. It hasn't been about 'stories' for a very long time. 

You can trace the mindset all the way back to the Golden Age with that company.

The Shield is hot over at MLJ? Let's create Captain America! Romance? Lets copy! Horror? We can do horror too!

When DC brought back superheroes in the late 50's, Marvel followed.

Kirby's hot? Have him do all the layouts and let's teach other artists to draw like him.

Whatever sold... they catered to. Always.It was always about style over substance for Marvel.

What they did in the 60's was tap into a new generations mindset... heroes that have everyday problems, just like me and you and notice things like war protests going on and the Beatles... they saw a response to that and they milked it.

Once Shooter turned it into a factory like mentality, and ran off the creative force, it was a machine that couldn't be stopped.

It's not really that they started it... the history of comics is all about greedy publishers trying to sell, sell, sell. 

What Marvel actually did to almost destroy the market was to create their own distribution and break away from Diamond. They wanted to eliminate the middle man and make more of the profit. It had devastating effects. (Interestingly, this wasn't the first time they tried something along these lines and almost bankrupted themselves because of it)

For all the concern everyone has over the glut of publishing from that era - it was what it was - no one HAD to buy it. But what Marvel did with Heroes World (their own distribution company) was throw the whole system into turmoil... smaller stores could no longer afford the minimums, Diamond scrambled to make ends meet, shortages ran rampant as Marvel's Heroes World struggled to do what even Diamond struggled to do - be efficient. (Shortages and misshipments cost everyone money - but distribution can somewhat swallow that - but small stores in competitive markets can NOT).

All of the variant covers or foil covers or artists doing so many covers, etc.... thats all the fault of the FANS for buying all of that junk. Not the publishers. If you pay me $10 a day to pick up a piece of dirt off the ground and feed it to you while I pretend it's filet mignon, that's YOUR fault. 

The strange thing is, DC actually DID what everyone complained someone should do during that time. They pulled BACK from the variant cover craze (at a certain point, they did their share for a while) and mostly just straight published. They got good writers, and artists, many of who defected from Marvel - and even ramped up their reader line of comics - Vertigo. And the numbers were just ok.

Because the real issue in all of this is the FANS. 

Everyone complains about the variants, the special issues, the new reboot, etc., but SOMEONE is buying those books and making Marvel think... we have to keep feeding them dirt! They like it!

Ultimately this is all the FANS fault. You buy chit, they're going to sell you chit. We've gotten what we deserve. 

Yeah I wasn't really trying to dive deep into what Marvel was doing. I hated 90s marvel and DC and didn't read them. I think a lot of what they were doing was trying to fluff up their numbers any way they could because they didn't have Todd Mcfarlen / Jim Lee / Larson / etc, etc, etc writing and drawing for them any more. A very large chunk of the top names in the industry went away from the big two and so DC/Marvel were using smoke and mirrors to sell issues any way they could to stay afloat.

...But, where Image could have been really great having all the big names etc, what did they do instead of getting creative and forging new ground in comics? For the most part they stuck with the same old ideas, and produced tons of comics that felt like knock offs of big two line ups. and so even if you didn't like what the big two were churning out, you didn't even have good any-where-else to go. Pacific, and the tide of other small scale publishers were dead or dying. Image wasn't truly the "cause" of all of comics ruin of the 90s... obviously that kind of inertia needs to be built up over decades of bad acting (as described above). But, they certainly were a powerful catalyst. And while I do agree that the customer has to bear some of the burden here. Nobody wanted to believe that comic books were truly going into the toilet. and so there was a lot of "well this new thing came out I'll give it a try, because maybe it's going to be a decent story." and that kind of sales scheme by Marvel worked until the customer base finally got so fed up that they just stopped buying comic books.

The publishers bear their side of the blame too, however. I wouldn't want to paint a scenario that felt like "ah it wasn't Hitler's fault, he was just giving all those evil people what they truly wanted, kind of vibes." I know I'm being grandiose, but to serve a point. Bad acting is bad acting and blaming it on a faceless mass of people only helps to serve an "it's not my fault" mentality. And when people truly love something like I think we all love comic books, then you're willing to give stuff a chance for a while, until you finally aren't. And publishers tried to take advantage of that, until people said f-you, we're not buying it anymore. I know I stopped reading comics for just about a decade myself. And the publishers were too stupid to understand that would be exactly what happened. Most publishers now understand they have to balance storytelling with profitability, because decent story telling is what drives longevity. Image has certainly learned that lesson. Although, I will say that I think that Marvel is forgetting that again with this whole "Hire one big team to drive an event, but then publish 25 satellite titles that are to go with it" mentality.

So I still think that at a macro level the image creators were a big catalyst of how comics are made today, by being the match that nearly destroyed comic books in the past. And are my most influential living artists.