MyNameIsLegion

we're not the stakeholders, we are customers.

+1

MCS, which already doens't think much of CGC grades now might reconsider accepting slabs as-is in certain circumstances. Maybe Borock can come full circle back to CGC since he's back in Gatorland. That means Matt has to ho to HA first, then Clink, then MCS.

yeah but what's Matt going to do about it right now? in practical terms they probably have contracts with their supplier in China to produce tens of thousands of holders this next year or longer, they have thousands in the supply chain and in their warehouse now. they aren't going to eat those. They can't R&D a new holder overnight. They're in the middle of their first fiscal quarter, or about to start their first quarter and everything in the budget is set. they might consider a new holder design when they plan next years budget in the summer. Most likely response- a few weeks of internal data collection, solutioning some process improvements to prevent the known scam, and more scrutiny of any reholder of certain accounts, new accounts, or spot checks of every 100 or whatever. A vague statement about the issue, with zero specifics and no public disclosure of known books from this seller, and an offer to recertify on request select books if and only if they come up for sale or through an auction house. Something that compartmentalizes each slab and each owner to be handled on a case by case basis "to protect the privacy of owners" and contain the contagion of any public narrative. "Doing the right thing" means something very different to a business that is a footnote in a trillion dollar VC portfolio than it does the man on the street.

the holder, the holder.

Well, in Roy’s defense, he’s Canadian. They moved the goal post, the field, added players, kick the ball whenever they feel threatened. Utter CFL chaos!

Merry Christmas ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? thread. You're the grift that keeps on giving!

There’s plenty of equipment now that can detect chemical composition (spectrometer) and detect odors (olfactometer) that will be infinitely more precise. That’s decades old technology that doesn’t catch a cold or have allergies. “Bob’s a little stuffy today, we can’t grade these White Mountains” of course some hourly flunky will be turning pages but AI can do absolutely all of the complex scoring to determine an impartial grade.. Robots build cars and microchips now, do you honestly think examining a comic book is a real challenge? (Insert “ok boomer” meme here- despite the fact that I believe we are the same age)

Well that tells you 2 things: 1. They are acutely aware of the scandal. 2. They care not one bit what goes on here on the boards because it’s a relatively small audience of geezers they don’t care about that won’t go viral in any meaningful way. But now that they are trying to put out the fire on social media well now they are probably going to get reamed even worse for it.

see, I wasn't too far off when I posted this 2 days ago: "PSA GRADING CARD SLABS PLASTIC ULTRASONIC WELDING MACHINE" He probably cut his teeth on cards before moving to comics.

yeah, but after a book has been submitted and then resold- the next owner can't check the MVS, tattoos, page count, or any other hidden defect, now can they? Now we are losing degrees of confidence that the grade is accurate with zero remedy to do any additional due diligence. But you might have paid an extra $500 to recoup the cost of the slab on a key.

I was positing that a book previously graded would have enough identifying characteristics that if resubbed after pressing and cleaning it could essentially identify the book and infer the differences were the result of "improvements" not that it could detect pressing outright. (though I don't rule it out, if there were some other signature it could read, perhaps in the infrared spectrum)

AI could verify a resub against the original submission, detect pressing and cleaning or any improvements while still retaining matching unique identifying characteristics. It could also dial in the grades as compared to all historical grades for a particular book and create a range tolerance- even if a human is determining the final grade. The AI could say "I'm sorry Dave, that grade is above or below the threshold for all 647 historical grades for that issue with these imperfections. Please enter a different grade. Dave are you feeling alright? 87% of the books you graded today are .2 grades below the historical average. You seem to do this on most Monday's during the regular football season. are you getting enough sleep and drinking enough water? Perhaps you should get some rest. I'll finish entering the grades for you."

you think AI is limited like human's to the visual spectrum?

maybe CGC is responding with crisis management actors to combat the negative youtubers.

Buddy already has book recognition in their internal systems. It's cool AF.

she ghosted him online after he sent her $500 in Walmart gift cards.

oh? https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/style/raphael-madonna-della-rosa-ai-scli-intl-scn/index.html yeah, while CGC is busy ignoring this thread, someone is thinking about how they can grade more,faster using AI. MCS will probably get their first because they are innovation minded but the first grading company to figure this out will disrupt the market in a way that poses the single biggest threat to CGC's dominance, much more than this little embarrassing thread. It's not a question of IF AI will will do grading of collectibles, but when. 3D objects objects are not an issue. That's been fairly routine for a decade. The last guy at CGC that might still have a job in 10 years, ironically enough as it pertains to this thread, is the mook reholdering books.

I agree with all of this- it pretty much lays out CGC's conundrum in doing anything at all legally, or want to even be involved in any legal proceeding. There's no upside, it's all bad.

I don't know firsthand just how much $$$ this guy has made selling slabs, or how many were not legit. If one of the buyers filed a criminal complaint that might set the wheels in motion. I don't know if CGC would initiate it or not, that's why I kept asking if they were themselves an injured party affected by the deception and could file criminal charges or take it to civil court. I think that CGC would be reluctant to really put themselves out there unless subpoenaed to do so because it's all bad press for them that would become public record.

I"m not condoning any of the scenarios I detailed where the buyer is deceived into believing that the book matched the grade on the slab. It's patently unethical Heck, I'm squeamish about pressing really being permanent, and the book reverting to a lesser grade after the fact. I was arguing if each scenario was technically fraud. The lawyers here have weighed in that it is- as have you.

thank Chris. OK, I concede any of my arguments on the last 3 pages. Hey I'm not a lawyer, and I don't think I've stayed at a Holiday Inn Express in the last 5 years.

yes, when he sold it. I was questioning if the mere act of submitting the swapped book to be reholdered to CGC qualifies as fraud towards CGC. Some posters were demanding CGC break out the pitchforks and nukes. I was contending that between the scammer and CGC alone, did any kind of fraud occur?

ok, that's fair. Maybe is harder to prove beyond a reasonable doubt but perhaps it can be construed as fraud. @ThothAmon enlighten us. thank you for the detailed reply- I find the point I bolded above about the serial number to be a fascinating legal angle that hasn't really been brought up before.

see the scenarios I listed out above. Again, theres no question what he's doing is wrong. But how he is doing wrong is what determines if it is criminally fraudulent. I contend that there are scenarios that he can get away with. Civil fraud is a different matter.