MyNameIsLegion

So.... MCS & Comiclink have publicly acknowledged books in the scam have gone through them and offered to help with the investigation in some copacity CommicConnet/Metroplis: at least one conformed book, but no statement from them Heritage Auctions: Anything from there yet? There had to be some books flipped through them, they're the top of the food chain, and they have extensive online sales history and images. Id' think they'd have something to say on all this. But then, they launder doctored Original Comic art all the time....

that reminds me- based on just the 350 books briva 3 submitted to CGC, and I assume the list is much longer than 350- how much money did CGC charge him in grading and labeling fees? Probably their BIGGEST motivation and incentive in all this isn't to root out fraud, swapping, etc- it's to ensure that NO ONE circumvents their grading fees based on FMV. what's the difference, from a CGC invoice perspective, of grading a 9.8 IH#181 and reholdering or custom labels for a IH#181?

imagine dealers at a show pinching themselves over the good fortune of making a trade for a swapped out blue for all their qualified greens and purples that have been languishing in their back-stock. No records, no scans. Totally laundered out into the universe. He's probably doing it right now. Sure, he's gone offline, but he could continue swapping books and simply not reholder anything at CGC. He can easily make a 6 figure income and never sell online again. Just like micro-trimming DD who's trolling this thread. He didn't go to prison either now, did he?

Ok, back on track. CGC posted a list of 350 books that are suspect. the only problem with the list is it's not the 1681 that briva3 sold on eBay. We can't even assume that 350 is included in the 1681. But we do know he sold 1681 items on eBay alone. The list of 350 likely included donor books to be swapped into 9.8 holders, and some legit 9.8s. Those are the facts. Until we known the serial number of every slab sold on eBay PLUS the 350 CGC has listed we know we have as many as 2031 slabs. I know there were some duplicate listings on eBay to reconcile. But the number is is closer to 2000 on the high side and no less than 1330, not 350. Additionally, knowing how many slabs and raw he purchased online would also be informative. Most any slab he bought as a donor book likely does not exist anymore. The census is overstated for every book that had it's slab cracked to get the donor book inside, unless he also upcycled 9.0 into 9.4's but that seems less likely. I agree the risk of being caught goes up with grades under 9.6 that risk CPR, so unless he was greedy or stupid, those cracked slabs are in a landfill.

no, this was different. You may not have been in the hobby then or you're too young. He made up a list of art, even with pictures and prices that he lifted from other dealers or collectors and shopped it privately via email. You thought you were see this guys catalog of art for sale, but it was a complete fiction. If someone agreed to buy a piece, he'd get the money and turnaround and buy it from the owner. This only worked for a period time when there was no CAF, no Dragonberry list of dealers, google wasn't all that. Online commerce wasn't much or a thing yet besides eBay,

If I find a quarter, I have to leave 7 cents where I found it for taxes and I seldom carry exact change so it's just too much or a hassle.

Somebody please sell him your Eternals, Ms. Marvel, and She Hulk #1s

Looks like Roy hacked this guys account judging by the number of relentless irrelevant posts

I’ve been saying this all day - but we keep getting sidetracked. The list of 350 is incomplete, it’s the edge of the rug this gets swept under.

Anyone who thinks the FBI has or will be investigating anything anytime soon and will be forthcoming and transparent are wildly optimistic about how the world actually works. There’s 200 billion dollars in fraudulent PPE loans to track down first, the numbers and people affected in the CGC fraud don’t begin to hit their radar. Taxpayers come before discretionary spending on luxury items like comic books. You’d have to add 2 or 3 zeroes to this to even get a return phone call.

I think @comicwiz has been selectively tracking prior sales on eBay of certain books under 3 eBay accounts going back 15 years. There are a number of online services like the wayback machine and others that let you see cached webpages long after their original host had removed them. That’s where many of the scans in this thread were mined from.

I get that, but they can’t know which one’s were tampered with unless all of them are sent back, which likely won’t happen. But these 350 are not substantially different from the entire list of slabs sold by the perp in terms of their potential counterfeit nature. All books that passed through his hands are equally tainted. That list of serial numbers is the real list, whether CGC chooses to honor it or not. I get that they would not be financially liable for them if they weren’t laundered through them but they might want to get those books checked and off the naughty list regardless for the same reason, as would any owner of those books. They are radioactive at this point.

Maybe they will make a custom label for it 🤔

people get unduly itchy about outing people. They have this existential fear of reprisal or lawsuit if they do. It's all in how you word it. IF someone here has one of the books in question, and they simply state that they bought that book from person X on this date for this much. that's ALL they need say. IF 2 or 3 people do that same and the same name crops up again, no one has made any accusations, they've simply stated the facts. Everyone else can put 2 and 2 together.

I'm still waiting on an answer as to how the 350 can be the total number of books that are suspect if this guys has sold a great many more books over the course of 15 years on eBay. Not necessarily every book that was swapped went back to CGC, some may have been sold or traded off into the wild. Every serial number of a CGC he every sold is just as questionable as the ones that he submitted to CGC. If CGC didn't catch the swap, then the average customer may not either. Blue label for Blue label ASM#300's could have been swapped from 9.8 to 9.4. Then He sent legit raw 9.8 to CGC to get another slab to swap with another 9.4. That would be the simplest scheme given the high number of the same books to keep a pipeline going and not risk being caught by CGC every time.

and you got it from.....

I doubt anything even close to that happens- each individual or entity that sends a book back in and finds it to be less than the state grade will be informed of such (you'd hope) They are the only one's CGC is obligated to inform or compensate. Also, broadcasting the specific of the fraud would not be disclosed so publicly in a criminal or civil case. That would not be in CGC's best interest, or in the interest of prosecuting the fraudster.

What about all the eBay sales that @comicwiz has been tracking? Wouldn’t all books sold by the fraudster be suspect? CGC only directly know which books were submitted to them directly. But it’s just as conceivable that he swapped books and sold them without laundering them to CGC. In fact the ones he sent to CGC might have just been the ones he couldn’t pass off or he just needed to prime the pump to get more cases and books to swap out. The contagion extends to all books he touched that were slabbed.

that's probably true- some hourly wage slave took that 9.8 and 9.4'ed it in the sleeving and slabbing process. You should probably subtract .2 off any book after it's slabbed. Older, more fragile books probably suffer a half grade hit in the slabbing process. It was always a leap of faith sending off a book to some "authority" to bless it with a grade. Now that we've sobered up and know that Santa isn't real what is the real value of the service and the grade? Does the census really mean much? Does it make sense to pay a premium for the highest graded copy of any book? Was it really three books in the census in three different grades over time?

unless it's missing the CF, MVS, MJ Insert, had rusted staples, tape, and the interior paper is brown and flakey like Mrs. Smith's Pie Crust. You just don't know do you? You don't have the benefit of inspecting the interior BEFORE you make the purchase. I"m kinda sick of this smug "buy the book, not the grade" mantra. Can't do that if you can't see it. That WAS the point of CGC. That ship has long sailed and been set on fire, by the market, and CGC themselves. They are a commodities broker, not a third party grading service. At this point, I'll take MCS over CGC.

Well practically speaking we can’t reholder them all. This is really a chain of custody issue, as @comix4fun pointed out about 200+ pages ago. All slabs that currently reside with their original submitter aren’t really in question (unless they are cracking their own to swap) It’s the ones that change hands and purchased from a 3rd party that are in question. In my mind this is probably solvable via an app or website that tracks chain of custody when slabs are bought and sold. Again, CGC could turn this into a profit center by having members subscribe to this online registration and verification site. Then slabs that are registered command a premium over hooker slabs prowling the back alleys online where you get what you get and you takes your chances!

Here's a possible invisible barcode strategy that doesn't require printing a unique barcode for each inner sleeve and holder. Inner sleeve: preprinted X# of sleeves with 12345 Holder: Preprinted x # of holders with 6789 specific copy of ASM-252: Normal barcode: 123456789(not visible on the label)-A2345gh595 where the trailing digits are specific to the individual copy of the book graded. The inner sleeve and holder comprise the verification of the sequence expected for a specific book. There's little chance a scammer could find or know, sight unseen what the inner and outer sequence is to match them or marry them with the same book in a lesser grade to swap out. When CGC receives a reholder they scan the inner and outer well to verify the invisible barcode. Fast and efficient. Is it 100% foolproof? No, nothing is 100% Not ever, but it's a possible improvement that could be cost-effective.

This is where my head is at as well- the inner sleeve is the key to a two part verification system to ensure that inner and outer components of the slab are original. This is probably a more low cost way to implement a layer of security that hardens the target and dissuades fraud. Something like this: applied to the inner sleeve in addition to the holder that doesn't detract from the view of the comic and is only visible with the correct equipment. Invisible Barcodes For Retailers And Manufacturers Barcodes and barcode scanning has come a long way over the last few decades and has mainly focused on making them easier to read. To that end, there has been development and an identified need within a range of industries to create “invisible” barcodes. These invisible barcodes are created by using specialized ink that emits a fluorescent “glow” when exposed to certain kinds of lights such as ultraviolet (UV) or infrared (IR) light. This essentially makes the barcode hidden to the naked eye. There are many reasons for barcodes of this nature including aesthetic, as to not ruin the look of a product, as well as brand authentication, security or tracking. Industry & Application Uses Brand authentication – This has become a major problem worldwide over the pass few decades. This includes everything from pharmaceuticals, fake meds from China, to cosmetics and luxury goods such as fake wallets and handbags. Fake products whether imported or not create lost revenue to the manufactures and possible litigation issues to the sellers. Package design – Many manufacturers and retailers use packaging with branding and colored designs leaving little room for visible barcodes. Invisible barcodes can be applied without using valuable real estate or interfering with the design. Additionally, these can be applied at different locations on the packaging, allowing barcoding scanners to easily read the codes no matter the positioning on the package. Product Identification – Serial numbers and warning labels can utilize invisible barcodes to identify product information including product issues and requirement or possible recalls. https://www.universeoptics.com/invisible-barcodes-for-retailers-and-manufacturers/

I don’t fully understand the nuance of green versus qualified blue, it seems to imply 2 different numerical grades. But the submitter gets to choose? Are they presented with both numbers and then given the choice after it is graded? Can you request a reholder from one to the other after the fact? Is this another avenue for some monkey business too?